Jetstar Asia a failure for QF
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 636
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think BUSDRIVER is on the money. My info says it will more likely be a Jetstar takeover of Valuair - with a new airline to operate under the Jetstar Asia banner.
Makes sense as I can't see QF so easily conceding on this one, even if they are bleeding very badly...
This will be achieved by either Jetstar purchasing 49% of Valuair or the 49% may even come direct from Qantas.
If this is the case, the interesting route to watch will be Valuair's Singapore-Perth service...
Makes sense as I can't see QF so easily conceding on this one, even if they are bleeding very badly...
This will be achieved by either Jetstar purchasing 49% of Valuair or the 49% may even come direct from Qantas.
If this is the case, the interesting route to watch will be Valuair's Singapore-Perth service...
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middle East
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
apacau,
if J*A were to 'takeover' VF and run as J*A, it'd be bye-bye to Valuair's approvals into China and Indonesia (a major reason for J*A interest in a 'merger') so that won't happen. There will most likely some careful arrangement of the company structure so that these will be protected. Got to agree though with the demise of the Perth run however - interesting, but hardly surprising, times in S.E.A.
if J*A were to 'takeover' VF and run as J*A, it'd be bye-bye to Valuair's approvals into China and Indonesia (a major reason for J*A interest in a 'merger') so that won't happen. There will most likely some careful arrangement of the company structure so that these will be protected. Got to agree though with the demise of the Perth run however - interesting, but hardly surprising, times in S.E.A.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oz
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did Qantas own the deputy PM?
Crikey Daily - Thursday, 23 June
Some people will miss John Anderson being Deputy PM and minister for transport – like Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson, the Qantas duo who always seemed to get most of what they wanted from “Hollywood.”
Will Mark Vaile be so available?
Suggesting Singapore Airlines should be allowed to take over Qantas probably isn't the sort of nationalistic impression the new National Party leader wanted to create this week, but that doesn't necessarily mean Vaile isn't going to prove a Qantas captive as well. Vaile's rather strange statement really means he's in favour of scrapping the limit on foreign ownership of Qantas – just what Dixon and Jackson have been wanting for years.
Vaile has generally been seen to be in the Costello camp rather than Qantas's pocket when it comes to allowing Singapore Airlines fly the Pacific route, perhaps reflecting the greater time he's spent criss-crossing the Pacific with his trade minister hat on. He's also had the (relatively) rational briefing of his departmental advisers and the embarrassment of dealing with the oddity in our free trade agreement with China.
Will all that change when he's National Party leader and has to answer to his members when Qantas threatens to withdraw a service to Woop-woop? We'll find out soon enough.
Meanwhile, there's an interesting view put in Singapore's Today newspaper by a local aviation consultant and tourism executive, Prithpal Singh, about the failure of JetStar Asia. Singh wants Singapore to go for the higher moral ground by announcing a unilateral open skies regime, starting with its ASEAN neighbours. Singh writes:
Let any number of Malaysian and Indonesian airlines fly into Singapore without demanding reciprocity. This would unclog the Singapore-KL route and bring fares down, and with Indonesia, remove the bad taste of the tit-for-tat restrictions on budget carriers."
Singapore-based JetStar Asia could become an issue if it were to fail. It's an open secret that, like the other budget carriers here, it's a money loser. There are complaints that 49% Qantas-owned JetStar Asia is not getting lucrative routes and that the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS) is not trying hard enough to secure them. The CAAS has denied this.
If the complaints became louder and if Jetstar were to wind down, or Qantas were to pull out of this partnership, it would be a blow to Singapore's image and give Qantas ammunition to use against Singapore. We have to be realistic on one important point – that for all the rhetoric, it's highly unlikely we will see an open skies aviation policy fully implemented in Asia in the foreseeable future.
Crikey Daily - Thursday, 23 June
Some people will miss John Anderson being Deputy PM and minister for transport – like Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson, the Qantas duo who always seemed to get most of what they wanted from “Hollywood.”
Will Mark Vaile be so available?
Suggesting Singapore Airlines should be allowed to take over Qantas probably isn't the sort of nationalistic impression the new National Party leader wanted to create this week, but that doesn't necessarily mean Vaile isn't going to prove a Qantas captive as well. Vaile's rather strange statement really means he's in favour of scrapping the limit on foreign ownership of Qantas – just what Dixon and Jackson have been wanting for years.
Vaile has generally been seen to be in the Costello camp rather than Qantas's pocket when it comes to allowing Singapore Airlines fly the Pacific route, perhaps reflecting the greater time he's spent criss-crossing the Pacific with his trade minister hat on. He's also had the (relatively) rational briefing of his departmental advisers and the embarrassment of dealing with the oddity in our free trade agreement with China.
Will all that change when he's National Party leader and has to answer to his members when Qantas threatens to withdraw a service to Woop-woop? We'll find out soon enough.
Meanwhile, there's an interesting view put in Singapore's Today newspaper by a local aviation consultant and tourism executive, Prithpal Singh, about the failure of JetStar Asia. Singh wants Singapore to go for the higher moral ground by announcing a unilateral open skies regime, starting with its ASEAN neighbours. Singh writes:
Let any number of Malaysian and Indonesian airlines fly into Singapore without demanding reciprocity. This would unclog the Singapore-KL route and bring fares down, and with Indonesia, remove the bad taste of the tit-for-tat restrictions on budget carriers."
Singapore-based JetStar Asia could become an issue if it were to fail. It's an open secret that, like the other budget carriers here, it's a money loser. There are complaints that 49% Qantas-owned JetStar Asia is not getting lucrative routes and that the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS) is not trying hard enough to secure them. The CAAS has denied this.
If the complaints became louder and if Jetstar were to wind down, or Qantas were to pull out of this partnership, it would be a blow to Singapore's image and give Qantas ammunition to use against Singapore. We have to be realistic on one important point – that for all the rhetoric, it's highly unlikely we will see an open skies aviation policy fully implemented in Asia in the foreseeable future.
Budget airlines Valuair and Jetstar to merge after all
Two of Singapore's three budget airlines are said to have finalised a merger - the first sign of consolidation among South-east Asia's fledgling low-cost carriers.
On-off talks between privately-owned Valuair and Qantas associate Jetstar Asia seem to have materialised into a larger company, with Jet star Asia offering to inject an undisclosed amount of fresh capital through its leading shareholder Qantas.
Valuair's shareholders - led by former Singapore Airlines veteran Lim Chin Beng, Star Cruises and Asiatravel.com - will be minority shareholders of the enlarged airline.
The deal has not been finalised yet - it is subject to shareholder approval on both sides. But sources reckon this is a certainty, given the financial stress the two carriers are under.
Jetstar started out last year with about $100 million in capital, while Valuair's shareholders have invested close to $60 million. Both companies have used up a substantial amount of their capital.
The deal comes just a week after they pulled back from merger talks because they could not agree on a shareholding structure for a merged entity.
Wires
Two of Singapore's three budget airlines are said to have finalised a merger - the first sign of consolidation among South-east Asia's fledgling low-cost carriers.
On-off talks between privately-owned Valuair and Qantas associate Jetstar Asia seem to have materialised into a larger company, with Jet star Asia offering to inject an undisclosed amount of fresh capital through its leading shareholder Qantas.
Valuair's shareholders - led by former Singapore Airlines veteran Lim Chin Beng, Star Cruises and Asiatravel.com - will be minority shareholders of the enlarged airline.
The deal has not been finalised yet - it is subject to shareholder approval on both sides. But sources reckon this is a certainty, given the financial stress the two carriers are under.
Jetstar started out last year with about $100 million in capital, while Valuair's shareholders have invested close to $60 million. Both companies have used up a substantial amount of their capital.
The deal comes just a week after they pulled back from merger talks because they could not agree on a shareholding structure for a merged entity.
Wires
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: utopia
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I notice on the previous page,
"i doubt Virgin will try to compete with Jetstar prices--mad if they do"
The low cost airlines make me laugh.Sure they have $99 air fares from say Adelaide to Cairns--but how many.
People i know see this advertised and decide to go on a holiday.Next day i decide i will go and the cheapest fare is $260.Leave it too late and its around $500.
Apart from the half dozen cheap seats ,if you book ahead Qantas is not much different in prices but its not a direct flight.
The average punter just automatically think Jetstar and Virgin are cheap.
The flight i took was 100% full.I usually fly Qantas which normally have about 60% bussiness class seats empty.
With all the added seats on the Jetstar planes i would love to see the total $ value of passengers.I doubt they would be much different to similar Qantas flight.
From my observations the majority of passengers were the average Joe Blow taking the family on holidays.
Why Jetstar
Direct flight
Its a low cost airline so must be cheaper?.
Must admit this was a holiday route-----not sure how the inter city flights fair.
Jetstar is only to keep Virgin down anyway.With only 2 airlines it would get up to a 50/50 ratio sooner or later.
"i doubt Virgin will try to compete with Jetstar prices--mad if they do"
The low cost airlines make me laugh.Sure they have $99 air fares from say Adelaide to Cairns--but how many.
People i know see this advertised and decide to go on a holiday.Next day i decide i will go and the cheapest fare is $260.Leave it too late and its around $500.
Apart from the half dozen cheap seats ,if you book ahead Qantas is not much different in prices but its not a direct flight.
The average punter just automatically think Jetstar and Virgin are cheap.
The flight i took was 100% full.I usually fly Qantas which normally have about 60% bussiness class seats empty.
With all the added seats on the Jetstar planes i would love to see the total $ value of passengers.I doubt they would be much different to similar Qantas flight.
From my observations the majority of passengers were the average Joe Blow taking the family on holidays.
Why Jetstar
Direct flight
Its a low cost airline so must be cheaper?.
Must admit this was a holiday route-----not sure how the inter city flights fair.
Jetstar is only to keep Virgin down anyway.With only 2 airlines it would get up to a 50/50 ratio sooner or later.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: QLD
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pappa smurf
i dont understand why you're talking about jetstar vs virgin fares which are all economy flights then you talk about how your qantas flight had 60% 'business class' seats available on it.
what are you comparing?
i dont understand why you're talking about jetstar vs virgin fares which are all economy flights then you talk about how your qantas flight had 60% 'business class' seats available on it.
what are you comparing?
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pappa Smurf, Good point regarding ticket prices, you almost always can get a better price on QF if you are a little flexible. But regarding load factors you will find that Qantas has a consistently higher load factor than J* and Virgin.
Evertonian
They're a funny mob up in Asia! AN learned the hard way when they geared an INTL service to Asians rather than locals. Come the next Chook flu, meltdown, whatever...we'll see how keen they are in supporting an "Aussie" carrier in their midst.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: utopia
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jet Base.
No good at words but was trying to explain that out of say 16 bussiness class maybe only 6 are taken. Say at a $1000 a ticket =6000.
Put in normal seats =24 ,plus they seem to get rid of other panel work so you trip over the front seat passengers legs when bording.So add another 6 seats.
Total of 30 seats at say $400 a ticket = $12000
So the few super cheap seats +the reasonable priced seats + the ones people think are cheap because its a low cost airline + the extra seating would add up to a similar total to a qantas flight with 60% empty bussiness class seats.
Ive never been right in my life ,but the way i see it,with lower wages etc Jetstar wouldnt be to far off Qantas per flight profit wise.
Must admit though,that wouldnt be on all flights.
As said before...Jetstar take passengers off Qantas and maybe Virgin and as long as they make a profit and keep Virgin to 30%--game set and match.
No good at words but was trying to explain that out of say 16 bussiness class maybe only 6 are taken. Say at a $1000 a ticket =6000.
Put in normal seats =24 ,plus they seem to get rid of other panel work so you trip over the front seat passengers legs when bording.So add another 6 seats.
Total of 30 seats at say $400 a ticket = $12000
So the few super cheap seats +the reasonable priced seats + the ones people think are cheap because its a low cost airline + the extra seating would add up to a similar total to a qantas flight with 60% empty bussiness class seats.
Ive never been right in my life ,but the way i see it,with lower wages etc Jetstar wouldnt be to far off Qantas per flight profit wise.
Must admit though,that wouldnt be on all flights.
As said before...Jetstar take passengers off Qantas and maybe Virgin and as long as they make a profit and keep Virgin to 30%--game set and match.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Next to Bay 8
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The interesting point which nobody has touched on is that if, in the unfortunate event that JSA do go tits up, where will the cadets go?
If they go directly into QF, they've certainly jumped the queue by at least 18 months or so!
Wish all the guys the best!
If they go directly into QF, they've certainly jumped the queue by at least 18 months or so!
Wish all the guys the best!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: QLD
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks pappa smurt, point understood 
ur2:
-there will be 50% less competition then. Tiger Airways will remain as the only other low cost operation out of singapore
-Tiger doesn't fly on any routes jetstar asia or valuair does, except to Bangkok, so this isnt really 'competition'
ur2:
-there will be 50% less competition then. Tiger Airways will remain as the only other low cost operation out of singapore
-Tiger doesn't fly on any routes jetstar asia or valuair does, except to Bangkok, so this isnt really 'competition'
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Where the contract takes me
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
J* Asia may receive 2 x A332
Too many planes
Too many pilots
Not enough routes
andNot enough money
They have to sort out the 'little' buses before they consider big 'buses'
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: asia
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Information that I have heard is that a few routes including some to Australia came with Valueair, not just the planes. Big bus endorsed crews exist in both companies as well.
Don't think money is a problem if QF and the Sing Gov remain.
mmmm.
Don't think money is a problem if QF and the Sing Gov remain.
mmmm.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
772 I think you are on the money.
I paxed a sector with Jet* Asia last week and chatted briefly with one of the crew, and the A332 rumour is strong.
Makes sense to me as part of the Dixon BIG picture plan to get the long haul QF costs down. Operate out of Asian destinations with Jet* aircraft and crews to Asutralian destinations instead of the reverse with QF; cut QF frequency, offer the QF crews a deal or face possible redundancy, and when most of the business is being flown by Australian and Jet* Asia, repaint the tails.
One way or another, Dixon is going to get the crews back down to where Virgin crews are. Like it or hate it, that's the way it will go
Add to all this the fact that Temasek have a shareholding and I think Jet* are there to stay. They'll make a market share over time and I hope they do. Some good guys there I would hate to see out of work.
For further reading see the thread "Jet* to Europe and the USA"
I paxed a sector with Jet* Asia last week and chatted briefly with one of the crew, and the A332 rumour is strong.
Makes sense to me as part of the Dixon BIG picture plan to get the long haul QF costs down. Operate out of Asian destinations with Jet* aircraft and crews to Asutralian destinations instead of the reverse with QF; cut QF frequency, offer the QF crews a deal or face possible redundancy, and when most of the business is being flown by Australian and Jet* Asia, repaint the tails.
One way or another, Dixon is going to get the crews back down to where Virgin crews are. Like it or hate it, that's the way it will go
Add to all this the fact that Temasek have a shareholding and I think Jet* are there to stay. They'll make a market share over time and I hope they do. Some good guys there I would hate to see out of work.
For further reading see the thread "Jet* to Europe and the USA"
Last edited by ys120fz; 5th Sep 2005 at 23:58.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: In a box, ready for shipping...
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is there much difference between Jetstar Asia and Jetstar Australia tech crew pay and conditions?
And/or Valuair pay and conditions?
Just curious as to which arm could secure the possible use of A330's or similar.
And/or Valuair pay and conditions?
Just curious as to which arm could secure the possible use of A330's or similar.