The end for Australian?
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The end for Australian?
With poor traffic results for April (seat factor 62.5%, down 6.5% from April 2004), and the advent of a Jetstar base at cairns, it does seem possible that Jetstar could easily squeeze out Australian as it has a much lower cost base. Their cabin crew are cheaper than AO's but their pilots are much much less expensive than AO's who basically are paid the same as their colleagues in mainline.
Anyone have similar thoughts?
Anyone have similar thoughts?
Join Date: Jul 2004
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With AO set to take FRA from QF this year I think rumours of the demise might be premature.
Frankly, I would not at all be surprised to see some 747's with orange (sorry ochre) paint down the track.
Frankly, I would not at all be surprised to see some 747's with orange (sorry ochre) paint down the track.
I would not at all be surprised to see some 747's with orange (sorry ochre) paint down the track.
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Don -
You can't compare AO cabin crew to JQ cabin crew cost wise as we do not have any provision to do international or long haul flying... And we would not do so on our pathetic excuse for a wage either!
Mind you, we are working two aircraft types and perform catering and cleaning functions for no reward or recognition either... But let's not go there!
You can't compare AO cabin crew to JQ cabin crew cost wise as we do not have any provision to do international or long haul flying... And we would not do so on our pathetic excuse for a wage either!
Mind you, we are working two aircraft types and perform catering and cleaning functions for no reward or recognition either... But let's not go there!
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I very much doubt it.
AO and J* are very different and aim at totally different markets.
J* offshore ops are limited by aircraft type (range) and where they can make an inroad into existing services. At the moment and for the future at least that market is only NZ.
AO having 747's is dreaming big time. They will stick with 767's for a while yet and stay broadly within Asia
AO and J* are very different and aim at totally different markets.
J* offshore ops are limited by aircraft type (range) and where they can make an inroad into existing services. At the moment and for the future at least that market is only NZ.
AO having 747's is dreaming big time. They will stick with 767's for a while yet and stay broadly within Asia
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The way I see it, the 767's will go back to mainline and the A330-200's will be painted in silver/orange and do Japan & Asia linking JQ Oz & Asia up.
Geoff is dividing & conquering the group with Jetconnect & JetStar already.
Have a look at AIPA. They are as strong as a straw hat. Whilst they are fighting internally, the rug has been pulled from underneath them well and truly over the last 3 years.
Geoff is dividing & conquering the group with Jetconnect & JetStar already.
Have a look at AIPA. They are as strong as a straw hat. Whilst they are fighting internally, the rug has been pulled from underneath them well and truly over the last 3 years.
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AO having 747's is dreaming big time. They will stick with 767's for a while yet and stay broadly within Asia
Mind you, aviation changes more often than I change my underwear, so who knows
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Arsey eight, is Geoff dividing and conquering, or trying to make the QF group as efficient as possible to beat off competition and ensure jobs for the long term?
Have a look at the damage done to Virgin Blue and Pacific Blue by Jetstar and Jetconnect.
Have a look at the damage done to Virgin Blue and Pacific Blue by Jetstar and Jetconnect.
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Frankfurt makes most of its money from the premium passengers... going low cost sounds like a step backwards profit-wise. How would Australian be able to do it any cheaper cost-wise anyway?
From memory this rumour started because someone spotted a billboard in the FRA terminal for Aussie... hardly conclusive.
From memory this rumour started because someone spotted a billboard in the FRA terminal for Aussie... hardly conclusive.
A lot of people go on about the damage to Virgin and Pacific Blue done by Jetstar and Jetconnect.
I cannot see too much REAL evidence of this.
Virgin had 30% (give or take a %) of the Australian domestic market BEFORE Jetstar arrived.
Virgin STILL have 30% (give or take a %) of the Australian domestic market after 12 months of Jetstar operations.
In this time the discounting has eroded yields, HOWEVER the market has grown and the market share for Virgin has remained the same - this means that over the 12 months since Jetstar arrived Virgin has carried MORE passengers.
If the market share remains the same before AND after Jetstar, then it stands to reason that the % of the market that Jetstar has claimed HAS TO come from the QANTAS GROUP share of the market.
Jetstar posted a half yearly profit of $19 million BEFORE INTEREST and TAX - which means that the real profit ie the money put in the coffers - is somewhat less.
It seems to me that QF are the people suffering as a result of the introduction of Jetstar.
There is plenty of the "woe is me" stuff from Virgin - it plays well to be the underdog - but the reality is that the company posted a PROFIT of $130 odd million - which in anybodies book is OK - crappy if you look at ROI - but all airlines are bad investments from that perspective.
I see no evidence of Virgin suffering IN REAL TERMS at the hand of Jetstar and QF.
I cannot see too much REAL evidence of this.
Virgin had 30% (give or take a %) of the Australian domestic market BEFORE Jetstar arrived.
Virgin STILL have 30% (give or take a %) of the Australian domestic market after 12 months of Jetstar operations.
In this time the discounting has eroded yields, HOWEVER the market has grown and the market share for Virgin has remained the same - this means that over the 12 months since Jetstar arrived Virgin has carried MORE passengers.
If the market share remains the same before AND after Jetstar, then it stands to reason that the % of the market that Jetstar has claimed HAS TO come from the QANTAS GROUP share of the market.
Jetstar posted a half yearly profit of $19 million BEFORE INTEREST and TAX - which means that the real profit ie the money put in the coffers - is somewhat less.
It seems to me that QF are the people suffering as a result of the introduction of Jetstar.
There is plenty of the "woe is me" stuff from Virgin - it plays well to be the underdog - but the reality is that the company posted a PROFIT of $130 odd million - which in anybodies book is OK - crappy if you look at ROI - but all airlines are bad investments from that perspective.
I see no evidence of Virgin suffering IN REAL TERMS at the hand of Jetstar and QF.
Last edited by Dehavillanddriver; 6th Jun 2005 at 02:46.
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Iamsureyouwillagree
I can't see FRA happening for AO, the story is that AO has not performed to the degree that managment had hoped for. After all, hasn't there been a few destinations withdrawn from and the next 767 cancelled. Not the sign of an airline doing really well.
So sorry Iamsureiwillnotagree!
I can't see FRA happening for AO, the story is that AO has not performed to the degree that managment had hoped for. After all, hasn't there been a few destinations withdrawn from and the next 767 cancelled. Not the sign of an airline doing really well.
So sorry Iamsureiwillnotagree!
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I would find AO taking over FRA very surprising indeed. It is a business route.
I think it would be more likely (and more 747-300 friendly) to see AO (re)open FCO and ATH. Possibly also CDG and BOM.
But I would expect HNL to be first cab off the rank once crew issues are sorted out.
I think it would be more likely (and more 747-300 friendly) to see AO (re)open FCO and ATH. Possibly also CDG and BOM.
But I would expect HNL to be first cab off the rank once crew issues are sorted out.
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Qantas will NEVER let AO take over FRA, what a ridiculous suggestion. Its long haul network has been steadily decreasing over the past few years (This was discussed in depth late year).
QF will hang onto to FRA like grim death! Otherwise London, LA and Jo’berg would be all that remained of the longhaul network.
Restricting the A380’s to LAX and LHR runs is simply too risky. Sept 11, SARS, etc has shown the importance of a strategically diversified route network to minimise the airlines exposure to individual markets and allow the quick reallocation and readjustment of capacity more than ever.
QF is being pushed back home from aggressive Middle Eastern, European and Asian full cost and low cost carriers. It is almost impossible for QF to pioneer new longhaul routes into Europe now. When SQ and EK start to fly across the pond, QF will be placed in a very precarious position indeed.
QF will hang onto to FRA like grim death! Otherwise London, LA and Jo’berg would be all that remained of the longhaul network.
Restricting the A380’s to LAX and LHR runs is simply too risky. Sept 11, SARS, etc has shown the importance of a strategically diversified route network to minimise the airlines exposure to individual markets and allow the quick reallocation and readjustment of capacity more than ever.
QF is being pushed back home from aggressive Middle Eastern, European and Asian full cost and low cost carriers. It is almost impossible for QF to pioneer new longhaul routes into Europe now. When SQ and EK start to fly across the pond, QF will be placed in a very precarious position indeed.
AO are getting the six B743's as Geoff Dixon wants all QF mainline international aircraft to have the same standard of business class ie sleeper seats. The B743's are fitted with "Dreamtime" non-sleeper seats and so if they were to continue to operate in QF mainline service then there would be two types of international business class. AO will use them on low yeild leisure routes.
I doubt that they could be effectively used on the FRA route as they can't make SIN - FRA with any significant payload and even if they move the QF5/6 route via BKK instead of SIN then they would still have to restrict the payload - the extra seats that they squeezed in during the recent refit would not be utilised. At present the B743's are being used on the SYD - BOM sector with over 100 seats blocked off to allow sufficient fuel for an alternate. Also, most of QF's competitors on the FRA route have sleeper business class so if they were to put the B743's on that route our loyal business class pax would leave in droves.
I doubt that they could be effectively used on the FRA route as they can't make SIN - FRA with any significant payload and even if they move the QF5/6 route via BKK instead of SIN then they would still have to restrict the payload - the extra seats that they squeezed in during the recent refit would not be utilised. At present the B743's are being used on the SYD - BOM sector with over 100 seats blocked off to allow sufficient fuel for an alternate. Also, most of QF's competitors on the FRA route have sleeper business class so if they were to put the B743's on that route our loyal business class pax would leave in droves.
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So if they do get the 743, Id imagine they would be basing the crew in Singapore? Where will AA get the crew to crew the 74? Qantas Second Officers wanting to become fast tracked First Officers will go to AA on lower pay like they did with 767? Is this true do you think? Why would anybody compromise their own position in Qantas to go to a sidekick carrier? It defeats me everytime I try to predict this industry. Always full of surprises.
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AO taking over Frankurt - some of you people are kidding. From a business perspective, the last thing AO needs is a new aircraft type, particularly a complicated and expensive to operate Classic.
Given the 400's have been pretty much all max weight leaving SIN for LHR and often FRA in the last couple of months, then they would need a 400 to make it economical I think.
Given the 400's have been pretty much all max weight leaving SIN for LHR and often FRA in the last couple of months, then they would need a 400 to make it economical I think.