Long Live the Pig
Join Date: Nov 2000
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As for Sukhois, I wouldn't worry about them.
They can get a tanker waiting for an F/A18 or F35 (if they happen) 400 mile off Batavia
Also, where's their AWACS?
Wheres ours
Do they have AMRAAMs
AA73 ?
The issue is - for most of our lifetime we have had the capability to destroy enemy/system/country/effectiveness 1000nm+ out. Even the scumbag who grovelled to them bought more pigs. Little F****wit wants to give it up for a fantasy that might happen or that may be late and degraded in RCS and range to mirage level (thats the way it seems to be going) and pay 300M for starters.
If cost of keeping the pigs going is a problem then the pensions of: RAAF*, Defence SES, Little F****wit would be a start.
They can get a tanker waiting for an F/A18 or F35 (if they happen) 400 mile off Batavia
Also, where's their AWACS?
Wheres ours
Do they have AMRAAMs
AA73 ?
The issue is - for most of our lifetime we have had the capability to destroy enemy/system/country/effectiveness 1000nm+ out. Even the scumbag who grovelled to them bought more pigs. Little F****wit wants to give it up for a fantasy that might happen or that may be late and degraded in RCS and range to mirage level (thats the way it seems to be going) and pay 300M for starters.
If cost of keeping the pigs going is a problem then the pensions of: RAAF*, Defence SES, Little F****wit would be a start.
Last edited by Deaf; 23rd May 2005 at 13:11.
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Are you pissed? (like me......)
But who said they would carry US or any other civil rego??
The aircraft in those pics was photographed pre-delivery from Boeing. They have to have some sort of rego on it for test flights, they can't exactly use a VH- rego...
But I still don't know what you were on about with this:
PS there is no such thing as an AA73 missile although the AA-11 Archer is sometimes known as the R-72 and R-73. But it is a heat-seeker and not really comparable to the AMRAAM right?
Hey this link will take you to a good article by some flying nerd who seems to know what he's talking about.
But who said they would carry US or any other civil rego??
The aircraft in those pics was photographed pre-delivery from Boeing. They have to have some sort of rego on it for test flights, they can't exactly use a VH- rego...
But I still don't know what you were on about with this:
They can get a tanker waiting for an F/A18 or F35 (if they happen) 400 mile off Batavia
Hey this link will take you to a good article by some flying nerd who seems to know what he's talking about.
Last edited by scrubed; 23rd May 2005 at 14:04.
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I did Cap'n Bogs and I came up with this:
Check it out. The official beta on the AA-11 and R-72/3..... it's okay, no apology necessary!!
The edit was in recogntion of Deaf's status as an old hand. I firgured he deserved more respect even if he IS pissed!!!! (like me...)
Check it out. The official beta on the AA-11 and R-72/3..... it's okay, no apology necessary!!
The edit was in recogntion of Deaf's status as an old hand. I firgured he deserved more respect even if he IS pissed!!!! (like me...)
Rebel PPRuNer
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The Wedgetail hasn't been officially delivered yet apparently, to be regoed A30-001 when it is. Thus says the caption from another photo of the bird.
As this simple person understands it, the potential bad guys will have the electronics and fighters to see the huge searchlight beam the F111 terrain following radar makes about 2012 or something.
Apart from that, I've heard RAAF officers almost go into orgasms at mess night describing the joys of flying this incredible aircraft.
Apart from that, I've heard RAAF officers almost go into orgasms at mess night describing the joys of flying this incredible aircraft.
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I like the bit about the heat-seekers in the bay. HAHAAA!!! Maybe strap a gun in there too as this is lacking on the pig but planet motion was too busy to mention it.
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PS there is no such thing as an AA73 missile although the AA-11 Archer is sometimes known as the R-72 and R-73. But it is a heat-seeker and not really comparable to the AMRAAM right?
The Pig would be blown out of the sky before it can even release a missile. Maybe Aus should look at the Su-34 for a replacement
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Vulcan was originally fitted in the weapons bay till replaced by Pavetack/recce fit. As for missiles in the bay, it was originally designed with a trapeze arrangement to launch 2 AIM-9s, so it's not as silly as it sounds.
Bloody funny stuff PoM - quiet night in the back bar was it?
Bloody funny stuff PoM - quiet night in the back bar was it?
Don Quixote Impersonator
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My technical knowledge of these things is zero.
But as a follower of the War game scenario novelists like Brown, Coonts and Tom whatsisname, they still seem to think of the F111 as a formidable weapon when used for what it was intended. I only say this because it seems they have some seriously heavyweight advisors who know about these things.
In the context of our region, the economics and their originally intended role I suspect we need more of them not less.
I'm not sure that I subscribe to the military/industrial complex thingo and that we don't invent new things for the sake of it but it does seem to be a self fulfilling prophecy in so far as Australian defence is concerned.
Having said that, the F111 was nearly as far away in the future when it was ordered by Bob as the JSF or whatever it is called is now and was subject to the same development agonies I'm sure will plague the newie.
BTW what else have we got and my memory is a bit cranky on it that can take a photo of the offending Minister (Can't remember if it was the Prime one) reading his mail and sending it to him shortly/minutes later to make a point.
I don't but I'd gladly give up the left one to fly one, just once.
And I still reckon I would have a full blown
orgasm every time I thought about it afterwards.
I still have the razor sharp movie in my minds eye of a visiting F111 at a Pearce display departing TO to the north, cranked around as the wings folded to full aft, dot foot (feet is plural), flat chat back over the field M0.999 then a gazillion G pull up with wings coming out for a climb to CRZ and return to Williamtown.
That is class.
It made everything at Avalon look like a pussy cat, and I think it may even have been driven by one.
Long Live the Pig.
But as a follower of the War game scenario novelists like Brown, Coonts and Tom whatsisname, they still seem to think of the F111 as a formidable weapon when used for what it was intended. I only say this because it seems they have some seriously heavyweight advisors who know about these things.
In the context of our region, the economics and their originally intended role I suspect we need more of them not less.
I'm not sure that I subscribe to the military/industrial complex thingo and that we don't invent new things for the sake of it but it does seem to be a self fulfilling prophecy in so far as Australian defence is concerned.
Having said that, the F111 was nearly as far away in the future when it was ordered by Bob as the JSF or whatever it is called is now and was subject to the same development agonies I'm sure will plague the newie.
BTW what else have we got and my memory is a bit cranky on it that can take a photo of the offending Minister (Can't remember if it was the Prime one) reading his mail and sending it to him shortly/minutes later to make a point.
I don't but I'd gladly give up the left one to fly one, just once.
And I still reckon I would have a full blown
orgasm every time I thought about it afterwards.I still have the razor sharp movie in my minds eye of a visiting F111 at a Pearce display departing TO to the north, cranked around as the wings folded to full aft, dot foot (feet is plural), flat chat back over the field M0.999 then a gazillion G pull up with wings coming out for a climb to CRZ and return to Williamtown.
That is class.
It made everything at Avalon look like a pussy cat, and I think it may even have been driven by one.
Long Live the Pig.
Evertonian
2 things...
If it is still a worthy concept, why not use all those skills earned by building our own Hornets & do some "new build" F111's under license? Whack some updated software (preferably not from the Collins) and Bob's yer Uncle!
Also, what are those "bumps" on the engine cowling of the AWACS B737?
If it is still a worthy concept, why not use all those skills earned by building our own Hornets & do some "new build" F111's under license? Whack some updated software (preferably not from the Collins) and Bob's yer Uncle!
Also, what are those "bumps" on the engine cowling of the AWACS B737?
Gaunty, heard the same story about the fly-by of the grey sponge at Canberra to demonstrate the recon capability.
I think you guys are missing the point. As i understand it, If F111's continue to use the terrain following radar for low level flight, they will eventually get nailed because it is the equivalent of a huge spotlight in EW terms. the bad guys are getting more sophisticated EW stuff that can spot them.
I have a feeling there may be more to it than this, but i'm not going to speculate.
I think you guys are missing the point. As i understand it, If F111's continue to use the terrain following radar for low level flight, they will eventually get nailed because it is the equivalent of a huge spotlight in EW terms. the bad guys are getting more sophisticated EW stuff that can spot them.
I have a feeling there may be more to it than this, but i'm not going to speculate.
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Being able to 'spot' the TFR is nothing new and hardly requires the latest in EW technology - although the TFR does have a very narrow beamwidth, so it's not exactly a giant spotlight getting flashed all over the sky. (There are also passive ways to fly low level IMC, if you're prepared to integrate the technology.) Anyway, it's been recognised for quite a while that low level is no longer the be-all and end-all, although there is still a place for it. Remember that when the Pig was conceived, no-one much had look-down shoot-down missiles or AWACS, so things have changed a lot.
The Canberra incident Sunfish and Gaunty refer to was in response to a particular element in the Defence Department pushing to get rid of the Pig. The boys found out which office in the Sponge was occupied by the offending party, did a bit of target study from a photo on the front of the Canberra phone book (or so legend would have it), and ran a simulated attack. The Sponge residents duly received a nice IR video with a set of crosshairs over their window and a countdown to impact of the simulated LGB...and the Pig stayed on.
The Canberra incident Sunfish and Gaunty refer to was in response to a particular element in the Defence Department pushing to get rid of the Pig. The boys found out which office in the Sponge was occupied by the offending party, did a bit of target study from a photo on the front of the Canberra phone book (or so legend would have it), and ran a simulated attack. The Sponge residents duly received a nice IR video with a set of crosshairs over their window and a countdown to impact of the simulated LGB...and the Pig stayed on.
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The Canberra incident Sunfish and Gaunty refer to was in response to a particular element in the Defence Department pushing to get rid of the Pig. The boys found out which office in the Sponge was occupied by the offending party, did a bit of target study from a photo on the front of the Canberra phone book (or so legend would have it), and ran a simulated attack. The Sponge residents duly received a nice IR video with a set of crosshairs over their window and a countdown to impact of the simulated LGB...and the Pig stayed on.
Other cool stuff was a photo of Brissie from many miles out - you could see the time on a clock tower, and IR video of aerial refuelling - you could see the tank filling up via its heat signature
Nice read for the proponents of the Pig here http://www.ausairpower.net/pig.html , I'm not clever enough to comment either way - I'll leave that to those here in the know
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So if these graphs are accurate, why are we not refurbing those extra airframes we recently bought, I'm sure there are more airframes to to be had for a zillionth of what the JSF is eventually going to cost.
