Virgin Staff in the Firing Line
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Virgin Staff in the Firing Line
Also from todays Australian.
Staff in the firing line
By Steve Creedy
May 19, 2005
From:
VIRGIN Blue staff will be at the forefront of attempts to cut costs as the airline seeks new enterprise agreements, outsources catering and merges engineering operations.
Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey said yesterday he did not believe the airline's three enterprise bargaining agreements, due for renegotiation this year, were "necessarily relevant".
"We did our deals some time back. We will not be doing the same deals as we did last time," Mr Godfrey said.
"They're a one-size-fits-all approach and I believe very strongly that we have an opportunity to have a look at a more tailored approach."
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Mr Godfrey suggested this could mean axing national agreements in favour of local deals.
While he believed Virgin Blue staff were productive, he believed more flexibility could be built into the system to improve costs.
He cited the removal of requirements that pilots flying on transcontinental flights must stay in Perth overnight as an example of change that would save costs and benefit staff lifestyles.
Mr Godfrey said he did not expect a decision to merge the airline's Virgin Tech engineering company with Patrick Corp's Jetcare to result in job losses among engineers, because there was no duplication in various ports.
However, it could mean the airline would not have to employ more to cope with its planned expansion.
He indicated the company would be pushing Virgin Tech employees to adopt workplace agreements as a result of the merger.
He said there was no reason for Virgin Tech employees to be scared of the agreements, which had put more money in the pockets of Jetcare employees in return for better productivity and efficiency.
On the issue of outsourcing, Mr Godfrey said a decision to formalise an ad hoc deal to allow Air New Zealand's engineering division to do Virgin's heavy maintenance had also brought savings. He said catering was being farmed out because it was not a core part of Virgin Blue's business.
Mr Godfrey said the the airline was also looking at new arrangements for ground crews that could allow some ports to run their own operations.
Staff in the firing line
By Steve Creedy
May 19, 2005
From:
VIRGIN Blue staff will be at the forefront of attempts to cut costs as the airline seeks new enterprise agreements, outsources catering and merges engineering operations.
Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey said yesterday he did not believe the airline's three enterprise bargaining agreements, due for renegotiation this year, were "necessarily relevant".
"We did our deals some time back. We will not be doing the same deals as we did last time," Mr Godfrey said.
"They're a one-size-fits-all approach and I believe very strongly that we have an opportunity to have a look at a more tailored approach."
Advertisement:
Mr Godfrey suggested this could mean axing national agreements in favour of local deals.
While he believed Virgin Blue staff were productive, he believed more flexibility could be built into the system to improve costs.
He cited the removal of requirements that pilots flying on transcontinental flights must stay in Perth overnight as an example of change that would save costs and benefit staff lifestyles.
Mr Godfrey said he did not expect a decision to merge the airline's Virgin Tech engineering company with Patrick Corp's Jetcare to result in job losses among engineers, because there was no duplication in various ports.
However, it could mean the airline would not have to employ more to cope with its planned expansion.
He indicated the company would be pushing Virgin Tech employees to adopt workplace agreements as a result of the merger.
He said there was no reason for Virgin Tech employees to be scared of the agreements, which had put more money in the pockets of Jetcare employees in return for better productivity and efficiency.
On the issue of outsourcing, Mr Godfrey said a decision to formalise an ad hoc deal to allow Air New Zealand's engineering division to do Virgin's heavy maintenance had also brought savings. He said catering was being farmed out because it was not a core part of Virgin Blue's business.
Mr Godfrey said the the airline was also looking at new arrangements for ground crews that could allow some ports to run their own operations.
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interesting ..
there's a brand new DJ maintenance facility being constructed at BN, with the Jetcare hangar not 200m away from it ..
he did not expect a decision to merge the airline's Virgin Tech engineering company with Patrick Corp's Jetcare to result in job losses among engineers, because there was no duplication in various ports
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It would appear that Mr. Godfrey is blurring the line between cost savings (industial) and flight and duty limitations (safety).
If he thinks overnighting a crew is expensive try running a spreadsheet exercise on the cost of 180 pax being punched into the side of a hill by a tired crew.
If he thinks overnighting a crew is expensive try running a spreadsheet exercise on the cost of 180 pax being punched into the side of a hill by a tired crew.
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............or the crew stepping down, due fatigue (which is a more realistic probability, I feel).
I feel certain that if they're fair to the employee, they'll be welcomed - but WHY does Mr Godfrey THINK the employees are going to "be scared" of them?
What does he KNOW, that he's telegraphing?
Is Mr Godfrey "scared" of dealing with unions?
It sounds to me as though union busting Patricks is starting to make their presence felt.
Fasten your seat belts and get ready to be BOHICA'd!
He said there was no reason for Virgin Tech employees to be scared of the agreements
What does he KNOW, that he's telegraphing?
Is Mr Godfrey "scared" of dealing with unions?
It sounds to me as though union busting Patricks is starting to make their presence felt.
Fasten your seat belts and get ready to be BOHICA'd!
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The management of Patrick Jetcare forced through Australian Workplace Agreements using tatics including threats,lies,bullying and harassments.
True,the AWA supplies better pay,most conditions are improved above the former EBA but i will never forget nor forgive Patrick Jetcare management for their lies.
"Dear Sir/Madam,sign this AWA by xx/xx/xx or as of the xx/xx/xx when the new Virgin mantenance contract begins we cannot assure you of further employment".
I hope the management of Vtech treat their staff with a bit more respect than that of PJC do.
Good Luck to Vtech staff-with the liberals controlling the senate soon all staff pays and conditions are in danger.
If Godfrey was really concerned about costs across to Perth, why does he overnight 20 crews a night in SYD?How much is 60 to 90 hotel rooms in SYD every night (10-13 aircraft every night depending on schedule,crew of 6 to 7 depending on whether -700 or -800).Why not set up a SYD base?
True,the AWA supplies better pay,most conditions are improved above the former EBA but i will never forget nor forgive Patrick Jetcare management for their lies.
"Dear Sir/Madam,sign this AWA by xx/xx/xx or as of the xx/xx/xx when the new Virgin mantenance contract begins we cannot assure you of further employment".
I hope the management of Vtech treat their staff with a bit more respect than that of PJC do.
Good Luck to Vtech staff-with the liberals controlling the senate soon all staff pays and conditions are in danger.
If Godfrey was really concerned about costs across to Perth, why does he overnight 20 crews a night in SYD?How much is 60 to 90 hotel rooms in SYD every night (10-13 aircraft every night depending on schedule,crew of 6 to 7 depending on whether -700 or -800).Why not set up a SYD base?
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You start an airline, you work hard, you get lucky, you make money, you pocket a fortune.
Things settle down and business gets a bit tough. Hey lets call it a challenge. Everyone works that little bit harder.
You then tell the world the staff are where the cost cutting can be made.
Be very careful, you are only as good as those that surround you.
In a chirpy airline, dropping morale could serve you a savage blow. The airline depends, no prides itself on the smiling, helpful staff. This could really backfire I suspect.
Do not line your pockets with gold and hand the boys peanuts.
Things settle down and business gets a bit tough. Hey lets call it a challenge. Everyone works that little bit harder.
You then tell the world the staff are where the cost cutting can be made.
Be very careful, you are only as good as those that surround you.
In a chirpy airline, dropping morale could serve you a savage blow. The airline depends, no prides itself on the smiling, helpful staff. This could really backfire I suspect.
Do not line your pockets with gold and hand the boys peanuts.
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JetBlues - spot on and well said.
The only thing I believe is that Godfrey would never belittle himself by listening to a pilot with common sense ideas no less !!
Very true though, in a chirpie airline low morale can become a very obvious commodity.
The only thing I believe is that Godfrey would never belittle himself by listening to a pilot with common sense ideas no less !!
Very true though, in a chirpie airline low morale can become a very obvious commodity.
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That is most excellent news Selac66.
Until now, the staff have been working extremely hard, giving their all, to build VB from nothing to what it now is.
It has obviously worked, and we now look forward to settling into cruise mode, because, unlike Mr Godfrey none of us received immediate gratification by way of large bonuses because of the success of the company.
"Sustainable" - such an apt word under the circumstances.
Until now, the staff have been working extremely hard, giving their all, to build VB from nothing to what it now is.
It has obviously worked, and we now look forward to settling into cruise mode, because, unlike Mr Godfrey none of us received immediate gratification by way of large bonuses because of the success of the company.
"Sustainable" - such an apt word under the circumstances.
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Todays press reports CC ala VB Chairman painting an omptimistic picture for VB's future. Nice one. When the waterside wars were over did not the remaining staff find their pay to be higher ?
Am I the eternal optimist ?
Am I the eternal optimist ?
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JetBlues.
Chris Corrigan is not about to make negative comments about his own airline, especially to the media.
To do so would cause many a problem.
As for the waterside, the workers now have to work a hell of a lot harder than they did previously and lost many cushy conditions in order to secure their pay rise.
Dont expect CC to be treating pilots the same way.
He knows a strike is not going to happen.
Do you think CC would have bought into VB if it was a heavily unionised airline?
No, I dont think so either.
Chris Corrigan is not about to make negative comments about his own airline, especially to the media.
To do so would cause many a problem.
As for the waterside, the workers now have to work a hell of a lot harder than they did previously and lost many cushy conditions in order to secure their pay rise.
Dont expect CC to be treating pilots the same way.
He knows a strike is not going to happen.
Do you think CC would have bought into VB if it was a heavily unionised airline?
No, I dont think so either.
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B.C.D.
Point taken re CC and interesting slant on the issue.
In the short term with the current share price CC has taken a 18-20 % loss on his recent investment in VB. This will change in the long term no doubt. We are not privey to CC's big picture.
From all accounts CC does appear to have a history or rewarding his "qualified" staff ( read pilots are some of VB's qualified staff).
Re the unionisation of VB interesting point. Whilst pilot membership of the AFAP might be above 80% lets see over the next few weeks how effective they really are for their constituency. I digress.
Point taken re CC and interesting slant on the issue.
In the short term with the current share price CC has taken a 18-20 % loss on his recent investment in VB. This will change in the long term no doubt. We are not privey to CC's big picture.
From all accounts CC does appear to have a history or rewarding his "qualified" staff ( read pilots are some of VB's qualified staff).
Re the unionisation of VB interesting point. Whilst pilot membership of the AFAP might be above 80% lets see over the next few weeks how effective they really are for their constituency. I digress.
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JetBlues I hope for your sake you are right but dont be fooled.
Dont expect Corrigan to be forthcoming with any gifts for a few years until VB is where he wants it to be.
As for Corrigan looking after his "qualified staff" I think you called it,dont expect pilots to fall into that category.
The fact that intake guys into VB pay for their license if not endorsed must have Corrigan grinning from ear to ear.
His "qualified staff" were primarily accountants and lawyers that did some of his dirty work during the waterfront stoppages.
Im glad that the AFAP has 80% membership but it appears to be a toothless tiger compared to their former selves.
I wonder how they confront Corrigan and his cohorts when it comes to push and shove.Time will tell.
You heard about the 49'ers in HK? (49 sacked pilots at CX for the uninitiated).
Well if it was Chris Corrigan it would have been 249 and that aint no joke.
Dont expect Corrigan to be forthcoming with any gifts for a few years until VB is where he wants it to be.
As for Corrigan looking after his "qualified staff" I think you called it,dont expect pilots to fall into that category.
The fact that intake guys into VB pay for their license if not endorsed must have Corrigan grinning from ear to ear.
His "qualified staff" were primarily accountants and lawyers that did some of his dirty work during the waterfront stoppages.
Im glad that the AFAP has 80% membership but it appears to be a toothless tiger compared to their former selves.
I wonder how they confront Corrigan and his cohorts when it comes to push and shove.Time will tell.
You heard about the 49'ers in HK? (49 sacked pilots at CX for the uninitiated).
Well if it was Chris Corrigan it would have been 249 and that aint no joke.
Scooter
It was going to be well over 200 until management were told they would have to shut the airline down unless they scaled it back. In the end they settled on 51 i.e. the 49er’s.
You heard about the 49'ers in HK? (49 sacked pilots at CX for the uninitiated). Well if it was Chris Corrigan it would have been 249 and that aint no joke.
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404 Titan.
I guess it all seems like so long ago now - thanks for pointing out the numbers.
Makes me wonder though why they didnt go for more though - thats their style.
Fortunately other scalps were spared.
My point is that Chris Corrigan is every bit as ruthless as the CX guys, even moreso if he doesnt get his way.
I guess it all seems like so long ago now - thanks for pointing out the numbers.
Makes me wonder though why they didnt go for more though - thats their style.
Fortunately other scalps were spared.
My point is that Chris Corrigan is every bit as ruthless as the CX guys, even moreso if he doesnt get his way.
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Arrrrrrrr....... Yawnnnnnnn !!!!
Is it just me or does everyone notice that these days it seems to be the the same half a dozen or so people on Pprune going on with the same old specualtion, slander and retoric?..... Mmmm Use to be such an informative site!.... but maybe its just me (just an observation from an aviation old timer.)
On this subject. No one knows exactly what is going on in terms of the DJ plans. What CEO's and mangement say publicly is pure and utter horse**** PR. Qantas staff would know this from GD over the years. Ex ansett staff would know this from pre-collapse days and DJ staff would know this now. The rest is pure specualtion.
I have worked for many airlines over the years and I can say that very few of them have consistantly made a profit. This is something that Dj has done from day one. Not many people would like to admit it (particularly on this site) however never the less it is still a very impressive feat.
No one knows exactly what CC will do however if he invested to gain 65+ percent of the company then he obviously has a bit of faith in the future of the company. All good news to people looking at long term employment. (which lets face it is the name of the game in any industry these days).
Like ANY company in any industry these days there is always doom and gloom by the HODs before EBA's. that is a standard tactic.... but in the end they still need so many employees to operate. And if a comany is making a $100 million plus profit after just 4 yeras existance, then the productivity cant be too bad! (especially from the tech crew point of view, hours worked etc,. Anything else has to be voted on anyway. i.e duty limitations/extensions etc)
Of coarse certain minor things can change, however I would have thought these days the Q tech crew would be more worried in terms of their long term futures. AO to expand?. Jetstar to continue to expand and take more mainline flying?, jetconnect? it goes on and on. It can only be time until management there say bring everyone back to 55 hours and get rid of overtime. How much money would that save??
And as mainline deminishes how long will it take to FO and command promotion with more and more tech crew doing less and less flying?
Point being each airline faces different issues and these days the pilots in any company are not in the box seat. However the doom and gloom is always from the level of perception that you sit at. And those who think they are infalable are usually the first to fall.
good luck to all
SS
Is it just me or does everyone notice that these days it seems to be the the same half a dozen or so people on Pprune going on with the same old specualtion, slander and retoric?..... Mmmm Use to be such an informative site!.... but maybe its just me (just an observation from an aviation old timer.)
On this subject. No one knows exactly what is going on in terms of the DJ plans. What CEO's and mangement say publicly is pure and utter horse**** PR. Qantas staff would know this from GD over the years. Ex ansett staff would know this from pre-collapse days and DJ staff would know this now. The rest is pure specualtion.
I have worked for many airlines over the years and I can say that very few of them have consistantly made a profit. This is something that Dj has done from day one. Not many people would like to admit it (particularly on this site) however never the less it is still a very impressive feat.
No one knows exactly what CC will do however if he invested to gain 65+ percent of the company then he obviously has a bit of faith in the future of the company. All good news to people looking at long term employment. (which lets face it is the name of the game in any industry these days).
Like ANY company in any industry these days there is always doom and gloom by the HODs before EBA's. that is a standard tactic.... but in the end they still need so many employees to operate. And if a comany is making a $100 million plus profit after just 4 yeras existance, then the productivity cant be too bad! (especially from the tech crew point of view, hours worked etc,. Anything else has to be voted on anyway. i.e duty limitations/extensions etc)
Of coarse certain minor things can change, however I would have thought these days the Q tech crew would be more worried in terms of their long term futures. AO to expand?. Jetstar to continue to expand and take more mainline flying?, jetconnect? it goes on and on. It can only be time until management there say bring everyone back to 55 hours and get rid of overtime. How much money would that save??
And as mainline deminishes how long will it take to FO and command promotion with more and more tech crew doing less and less flying?
Point being each airline faces different issues and these days the pilots in any company are not in the box seat. However the doom and gloom is always from the level of perception that you sit at. And those who think they are infalable are usually the first to fall.
good luck to all
SS
Last edited by SilverSleuth; 21st May 2005 at 17:36.