Emirates SYDCHC
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: rockingham, western australia
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i though melbourne christchurch was a good route for emirates, may not be that many pax, but given that its the only widebody on the service a big whack of freight is carried, oh well back to jetconnects clapped out 737's 
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What interests me is that the 345 is gonna run the MEL-AKL flight (as is already the case from SYD), while a 773 remains at MEL. To me this makes VERY little sense... the 773 would be cheaper to fly and could carry more cargo than the 345. Why not operated just 773/ERs to NZ and let the direct SYD/MEL-DXB 345s rest?
The only plausable reason I can think of is that EK wanna keep the cycles down on the 777s as they have more stopovers on the way home (BKK/SIN etc)...
What do you guys think???
The only plausable reason I can think of is that EK wanna keep the cycles down on the 777s as they have more stopovers on the way home (BKK/SIN etc)...
What do you guys think???
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Don
So are you referring to Emirates as one of these "blow-ins" ???
With double dailies into SYD, MEL, and shortly PER, plus the BNE flights, i hardly think they are a "blow in" !!
So are you referring to Emirates as one of these "blow-ins" ???
With double dailies into SYD, MEL, and shortly PER, plus the BNE flights, i hardly think they are a "blow in" !!
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Blow-ins? Absolutely!
Hamo and Mr Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy,
Double daily hither, thither and yon does not give anyone any status of longevity. When did Emirates start their Tasman operations? How do they manage to secure slots for these operations at congested airports in what is suposed to be a peak period, as at Sydney? What do they contribute to the economies of Australia and New Zealand when they are offering fares and rates that are certainly less than the real cost of production?
Do have a nice day!
Double daily hither, thither and yon does not give anyone any status of longevity. When did Emirates start their Tasman operations? How do they manage to secure slots for these operations at congested airports in what is suposed to be a peak period, as at Sydney? What do they contribute to the economies of Australia and New Zealand when they are offering fares and rates that are certainly less than the real cost of production?
Do have a nice day!
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Don
Easy there. They make slot applications like everyone else and they either get approved or they don't, the coordinators cannot issue slots over the 80/hour maximum set in the SYD Airport Act. Therefore if their is capacity why not give them slots. As far as the comment regarding fares at below cost, I've no doubt they have some loss leaders as do every other carrier on the planet, however they've got to make a buck like everyone else. Look at Jetstars latest lead fares and tell me that is above cost !!! I would guess they contribute to the economies of AU and NZ through jobs, bring more pax through airports, offering people choice and hence potential savings, etc. You sound very much like one of those people that hates competition and wants QF protected, would you prefer a sweatheart deal between QF and NZ only on the Tasman with all their fares above $500 ?
Easy there. They make slot applications like everyone else and they either get approved or they don't, the coordinators cannot issue slots over the 80/hour maximum set in the SYD Airport Act. Therefore if their is capacity why not give them slots. As far as the comment regarding fares at below cost, I've no doubt they have some loss leaders as do every other carrier on the planet, however they've got to make a buck like everyone else. Look at Jetstars latest lead fares and tell me that is above cost !!! I would guess they contribute to the economies of AU and NZ through jobs, bring more pax through airports, offering people choice and hence potential savings, etc. You sound very much like one of those people that hates competition and wants QF protected, would you prefer a sweatheart deal between QF and NZ only on the Tasman with all their fares above $500 ?
If you can't take the heat, get out of the Tasman....
I'm with you Don!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Here here Don and Blogg'sy. Well said and they may soon be flying across the Tasman with NO PILOT's as over 60% of the boys are seriously looking elsewhere. When the lads get off at destinations, go to the hotel, shower, then slip on a suit and go for an interview, something aint right in the camp. Then again as the saying goes and is Emirates current policy "Greed is Good".
Keep Discovering. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep Discovering. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Capn,
Some pretty harsh, unsubstantiated allegations. Or do you just assume that because the local boys are getting beaten at their own game, in their own backyard, that the playing field must somehow not be level?
Unfortunately, to protect expensive, "civilised" lifestyles come the by-products of expensive, top-heavy, unionised workforces. You can't have your cake and bleat it.
Some pretty harsh, unsubstantiated allegations. Or do you just assume that because the local boys are getting beaten at their own game, in their own backyard, that the playing field must somehow not be level?
Unfortunately, to protect expensive, "civilised" lifestyles come the by-products of expensive, top-heavy, unionised workforces. You can't have your cake and bleat it.
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Emirates Costs?
Journeyman,
Don't know or even care for whom you work but you do need a lesson in airline economics.
The local operators on the Tasman (Air NZ, Qantas, Virgin Pacific et al) would have to cost their operatioins on a full cost basis. That is, include all standing charges as well as operating costs. On the other hand, I betcha Emirates costs its add-on Tasman services based on DOC's only. In other words, provided they cover their out of pocket costs , they will be happy as the equipment incurs standing charges whether it flies the Tasman or sits on the ground in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane. That it contributes to unfair competition is what many of us oppose. How else would they continue to operate considering the loads they carry and the fares and rates they charge? Level playing field - I think not.
Don't know or even care for whom you work but you do need a lesson in airline economics.
The local operators on the Tasman (Air NZ, Qantas, Virgin Pacific et al) would have to cost their operatioins on a full cost basis. That is, include all standing charges as well as operating costs. On the other hand, I betcha Emirates costs its add-on Tasman services based on DOC's only. In other words, provided they cover their out of pocket costs , they will be happy as the equipment incurs standing charges whether it flies the Tasman or sits on the ground in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane. That it contributes to unfair competition is what many of us oppose. How else would they continue to operate considering the loads they carry and the fares and rates they charge? Level playing field - I think not.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Don;
Actually your comments are about aviation ACCOUNTING, not ECONOMICS. There is a difference.
QF or whoever are perfectly entitled to marginal-price routes (which is what you seem to be implying EK do). It's also what economics theory suggests is the most efficient (value-creating) method of doing so.
As for your earlier comment:
Well, in that case, their contribution to the local economies is substantial. You might be forgetting that there is a portion of the economy that exists outside of aviation - EK pricing below marginal cost is a gift to that economy. Sure a local carrier might suffer, but the gain to the rest of the economy is greater than the hurt to the local carrier. Give a local a cheaper fare, and they'll have more money left in their pocket.
Sorry, but that is the harsh reality...
Actually your comments are about aviation ACCOUNTING, not ECONOMICS. There is a difference.
QF or whoever are perfectly entitled to marginal-price routes (which is what you seem to be implying EK do). It's also what economics theory suggests is the most efficient (value-creating) method of doing so.
As for your earlier comment:
What do they contribute to the economies of Australia and New Zealand when they are offering fares and rates that are certainly less than the real cost of production?
Sorry, but that is the harsh reality...
Why not operate just 773/ERs to NZ
Join Date: May 2005
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One of Emirates' real cost advantages arises from the very low average wage of it's Dubai based employees in the airline and in it's airport business DNATA. Because the average wage of the baggage loaders, refuellers, ground staff and office workers is probably close to A$1 000 a month the wage bill for the bulk of the company is quite low. So while workers from poor countries are paid a pittance, Emirates can enter a market like Australia and produce less profit than the resident companies while establishing Australia as a proxy domestic market. Singapore has much the same setup.
As discussed before their close relationship with the regulator, the GCAA, also allows some very flexible FTLs that assist with profitability. These practices allow them to be very competitive in comparison to airlines that must work with independent authorities. It also impacts on safety because of fatigue. I believe that they currently have a pattern that has the crew working for eight days consecutively from DXB to AKL and that the JAR compliant FTL scheme is filled with waivers that benefit the company over the crew.
As discussed before their close relationship with the regulator, the GCAA, also allows some very flexible FTLs that assist with profitability. These practices allow them to be very competitive in comparison to airlines that must work with independent authorities. It also impacts on safety because of fatigue. I believe that they currently have a pattern that has the crew working for eight days consecutively from DXB to AKL and that the JAR compliant FTL scheme is filled with waivers that benefit the company over the crew.
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Unfair competition?
Probably. If you want to build a case for unfair competion between EK and you antipodeans then look no further than the FTL scheme EK operate. They are currently flying their Airbus crews over the 900hr 12 mth limit, apparently with the tacit approval of the GCAA. Take that one to CASA and stir up the pond a little. We'd sure appreciate it!
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Don Easson
Quote 'how do they continue to operate considering loads they carry and the fares and rates they charge'
looking at figures into AKL today wiith flights arriving about 60 mins apart
NZ SYD/AKL 76pax
QF SYD/AKL 116 pax
EK SYD/AKL 190 pax
NZ BNE/AKL 85pax
EK BNE/AKL 150 pax
EK are not offering the cheapest fares on the Tasman being undercut by NZ/QF/SJ/DJ/AR.
Also understand the cargo rates offered by NZ also cheaper than EK.
Heard EK loadfactor ex NZ was 88% Feb and 70% Mar so looks like there loads are as good if not better than some of the others.
Quote 'how do they continue to operate considering loads they carry and the fares and rates they charge'
looking at figures into AKL today wiith flights arriving about 60 mins apart
NZ SYD/AKL 76pax
QF SYD/AKL 116 pax
EK SYD/AKL 190 pax
NZ BNE/AKL 85pax
EK BNE/AKL 150 pax
EK are not offering the cheapest fares on the Tasman being undercut by NZ/QF/SJ/DJ/AR.
Also understand the cargo rates offered by NZ also cheaper than EK.
Heard EK loadfactor ex NZ was 88% Feb and 70% Mar so looks like there loads are as good if not better than some of the others.