Dicey crosswind landings 09/27 Melbourne

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

counted 3 go arounds in 6 hours on Saturday (and they are only the ones I saw on smoke breaks !)

Hey Hempy, that sounds about right, 6 hours of smoke breaks in a shift...

[VH-Cheer Up]

Hi John Eacott, thanks for the link to the webcam on 34/16 at YMML.

Any idea of an e-mail address where we can ask someone to drive out and wipe the dust off the lens? Or is visibility really that bad out there this arvo?

VHCU

[Vorsicht]

Am I missing something or have the lessons of BKK been forgotten already

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Strong crosswinds - HARUMPF!

Let's see you guys land ACROSS a strip because of excessive crosswind. Go on, dare ya!

Been there, done that, albeit in a Tiger Moth! Single runway, with a BLOODY STRONG GALE blowing across, and the ONLY way was either going to be landing sideways, shearing off the gear (ala Navy and crash barriers), or landing ACROSS the strip.

It helped that the ground speed was nearly hovering, so didn't need much (took more effort keeping it ON THE GROUND after touchdown)

Actually did watch an Eenie Weenie F-28 at Maroochydore once during "The year of major pilot unfriendliness" almost dig the wing tip in. It was a DAMNED close thing, and I ain't kidding! Same pair of Eenies proceeded to shower a bunch of placard wavers with dirt, stones, and sheet metal (YBMC was having a new terminal made at the time) with max break away thrust, with brakes applied... real professional pair. I believe at least 9 incident reports were submitted that day.

[UDH]

Mr McGoo, how can an aim point change if it it is a fixed point..pls explain

[Mr McGoo]

Yep, good point UDH. More correctly what happens is that with the aircraft IN TRIM and flying towards your desired aim point, when you encounter an overshoot shear the flightpath vector will initially move down the runway away from your desired aim point. Normally you would adjust the flightpath and thrust, retrim the aircraft and re-establish the flightpath towards the aimpoint. But on runway 27 this often happens as you are about to flare, therefore there is very little time to correct the flightpath, so you enter the flare with the aircrafts flightpath vector pointing down the runway beyond your aimpoint.

So it's your flightpath vector drifting down the runway away from your fixed aimpoint.

[gaunty]

And am I correct in pointing out that the landing distances in the charts are calculated without the benefit of reverse thrust?

[John Eacott]

Strong crosswinds - HARUMPF!

Let's see you guys land ACROSS a strip because of excessive crosswind. Go on, dare ya!

Crosswind? Runways? You do realise there's no future in this running up and down runways to get airborne. If you can't hover.....

[Mr McGoo]

Gaunty, you sure are correct. But just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[wishtobflying]

Good one John! The whole concept of hurtling towards the ground at that speed is very scary.

I like to stop, then land, not the other way around.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Radio news this arvo reports (undefined) QF aircraft stranded on a taxiway at YMML following brakes fire after landing, any update?

[gaunty]

Mr McGoo agreed.

And it might be picking nits but whilst I agree that you should use max reverse on short runways until you are assured of stopping, however insofar as directional control in '"dicey" crosswinds is concerned you are also transitioning from uncertain aerodynamic directional control to groundbased brake and limited steering control with perhaps the added complication of uncertain engine reverse thrust vectors.

Might "dicey" croswinds invite "dicey" engine performance in reverse thrust mode on the upwind engine which would exacerbate an already touchy vector. In other words, are you, in these circumstances better off without it?

I like to stop, then land, not the other way around.

love it.

[VH-Cheer Up]

See, from flight theory 1.01, landings and takeoffs ought ideally to be made as closely as possible to directly into the wind. Cross-winds are totally out.

What confines our thinking here is the limitation of the available runways. I'm not sure de Bono would let that stop him...

What we really need now is a 4000 metre diameter concrete helipad at every major airport and we can ALWAYS be landing into the wind, no matter which way it bloweth.

Plus, we have an upgrade path for when the NG triple decker SLF sandwich with 1800 seats needs another 10 metres of concrete to stop rabbits being ingested by the outboards, it will already be there...

Just an idea... It's Friday...

VHCU

[gaunty]

Nah too, expensive one runway with a weather vane swivelling mechanism that keep it always pointed into wind.

Now that would add another "frisson of terror" to the landing process, just to keep em on their toes. "where did that threshold go?" now where"s my glass of wine it's Fri/

[VH-Cheer Up]

You know, if it was made of steel and hollow so it floated on the water, it could be made to auto-weathercock so always into wind.

Nah, that would require airports near the coast, beside, can't ever imagine aircraft landing on some kind of floating structure, whatever next? USS Kansai Airport?

Gaunty, 1991 Hill of Grace ok with you?

Where's the corkscrew...

[gaunty]

Yummo I'm yours my man, sword ready who needs a corkscrew, you only need one of those if you don't intend to drink it all.

Now I have a very fine selection of Coriander and Capsicum Pesto dips with some Le Lingue Piemontesi double baked bread for them. Ahhhhh now about those windcrosses

[Laikim Liklik Susu]

Bring back the all-over fields of old, where one landed where one wanted into wind. Problem being, the aeroplanes then required little TODR and LDR