Australian Friendliness-Where the hell has it gone?
Registered User **
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chris,
[confining my comments to LAX]
To be fair, I think Travelling through LAX at anytime post 911 has got to make all other experiences delightful by comparison.
[confining my comments to LAX]
To be fair, I think Travelling through LAX at anytime post 911 has got to make all other experiences delightful by comparison.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Read page two first, then had to go back and find out what the #ell Scrubbed said.
Concur with all about it's behavior. Hopefully the controller will give him what for next time but doubt it. The controller is a professional, he might have a slightly different way that he operates but at least not an ignorant twit!
I'm an Ausie and proud of it, to hear there are people around who are ................(insert your own interpretation), is sad but just shows some are born and others are forced out at gun piont and never stop running.
P.S any spelling nazi's.......I DON'T CARE
Concur with all about it's behavior. Hopefully the controller will give him what for next time but doubt it. The controller is a professional, he might have a slightly different way that he operates but at least not an ignorant twit!
I'm an Ausie and proud of it, to hear there are people around who are ................(insert your own interpretation), is sad but just shows some are born and others are forced out at gun piont and never stop running.
P.S any spelling nazi's.......I DON'T CARE
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"When ready to 180, well I guess that would be now....."
AND
Don't controllers have something like Controllermanship or something???
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Scrubbed I don't think you have spent much time flying in Singapore airspace have you? If you had, as well as taken the time to get off your arse and go up to ATC and watch them work, you would realise that they are extremely professional and competent, easily on a par with anything that comes out of Sydney ATC for a start.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just finished reading scrubbers first post......
****, i only have a PPL and treat ATC as i would like to be treated. if i need something, like a clearence, but they seam to have forgotten, i will ask. no reason to get upset. but they are doing a job just as i am, no need to treat them with contempt.
just remember, one day, the controller WILl remember you! then you will have fun! but you wont be the one laughing!
****, i only have a PPL and treat ATC as i would like to be treated. if i need something, like a clearence, but they seam to have forgotten, i will ask. no reason to get upset. but they are doing a job just as i am, no need to treat them with contempt.
just remember, one day, the controller WILl remember you! then you will have fun! but you wont be the one laughing!
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,980
Received 109 Likes
on
62 Posts
When learning to fly just over 20 years ago my Instructor after noting that I had fouled up some procedure whilst approaching controlled airspace on a nav stated quite firmly to me.....
"You can get away with p*****g off a Flight Service Officer (remember that now sadly extinct species?) but don't ever p**s off an ATC Officer!!!"
I have always followed that admonition.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
"You can get away with p*****g off a Flight Service Officer (remember that now sadly extinct species?) but don't ever p**s off an ATC Officer!!!"
I have always followed that admonition.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Planet Plazbot
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be quite frank. There is no conspiracy. ATC do not give a Toss who you are or what flight rules or what Tail Markings or any of that crap. If we can give it (safety AND procedures wise) we will. I think some people in the aviation world should take off the tin foil hats and stfu.
I find it laughable that some instructors actually teach such things as above to their students. There was a recent tour of the Brisbane ATC Centre from some training college and they(the instructor) did a write up for staff news letter. The guy actually stated words along the lines of 'well ATC can make it hard for you but the guys I saw were all number 1 top blokes'. Like seriously, take the pens out of your shoulder pouch and stab yourself.
In conclusion. Ask and ye shall receive. The Aliens are reading your mind, however small it is.
I find it laughable that some instructors actually teach such things as above to their students. There was a recent tour of the Brisbane ATC Centre from some training college and they(the instructor) did a write up for staff news letter. The guy actually stated words along the lines of 'well ATC can make it hard for you but the guys I saw were all number 1 top blokes'. Like seriously, take the pens out of your shoulder pouch and stab yourself.
In conclusion. Ask and ye shall receive. The Aliens are reading your mind, however small it is.
Onya Pinky,
On behalf of all ex Flight Service Officers, THANKS for the acknowledgement...
And, apart from your instructor, the MANY pilots who did NOT pee-off the local FSO, probably appreciated ;-
the usually cheery voice behind the mic...
their reduced 'turn around' times by having their refueller notified and waiting...
their NOTAMS and weather 'on the counter' awaiting them...
accepting 'abridged' Flight Plans by radio when they didn't have to (Read - weren't supposed to)...
arranging 'lights' at faraway places 'just in case'... you know, like when you KNEW...and we knew...and we knew that you knew we knew...and you 'pussyfooted' - just where did that 20kt tail wind come from??
the coffee 'on'...
taxies arranged when requested...
company messages - usually ETA's, and aircraft 'serviceability' messages - and the 'you are required to go to -------wherever and pick up------' passed promptly...
AND, share a beer together in the local aero club or where-ever...
and appreciate each other's job...
Don't happen n o more...
probably, T'was the very definition of 'Aus friendliness'......
On behalf of all ex Flight Service Officers, THANKS for the acknowledgement...
And, apart from your instructor, the MANY pilots who did NOT pee-off the local FSO, probably appreciated ;-
the usually cheery voice behind the mic...
their reduced 'turn around' times by having their refueller notified and waiting...
their NOTAMS and weather 'on the counter' awaiting them...
accepting 'abridged' Flight Plans by radio when they didn't have to (Read - weren't supposed to)...
arranging 'lights' at faraway places 'just in case'... you know, like when you KNEW...and we knew...and we knew that you knew we knew...and you 'pussyfooted' - just where did that 20kt tail wind come from??
the coffee 'on'...
taxies arranged when requested...
company messages - usually ETA's, and aircraft 'serviceability' messages - and the 'you are required to go to -------wherever and pick up------' passed promptly...
AND, share a beer together in the local aero club or where-ever...
and appreciate each other's job...
Don't happen n o more...
probably, T'was the very definition of 'Aus friendliness'......
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 30th Mar 2005 at 06:10.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,980
Received 109 Likes
on
62 Posts
Ex FSO GRIFFO; No worries my Friend. All you said is true and more.
Can still remember my first job, charging around the Cooper Basin oil fields in a VFR C206 having a very cheerful and sweet voiced Female FSO (YBHI) keeping watch on my antics.
"Lovely Lady;" I wonder where you are now??
The days when going Nosar no details was considered poor airmanship.
Agree with Scrubbed; Thank you 'biccies man'!
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Can still remember my first job, charging around the Cooper Basin oil fields in a VFR C206 having a very cheerful and sweet voiced Female FSO (YBHI) keeping watch on my antics.
"Lovely Lady;" I wonder where you are now??
The days when going Nosar no details was considered poor airmanship.
Agree with Scrubbed; Thank you 'biccies man'!
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Last edited by Pinky the pilot; 31st Mar 2005 at 03:03.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find it amusing (and slightly embarrassing) to operate from Singapore to Australia with a QANTAS aircraft for company along the same route.
In Singapore and Indonesian FIRs, the radio calls are distinctly "THIS, (suitable pause), IS THE VOICE OF GOD!". Do they really have speech synthesisers?
On crossing the Australian FIRs - "Ahhh, gidday Brissy, how ya's doin? this is QANTAS..." (Nasal speech synthesiser switched on).
Oh my Gawd! I think I'll start telling my F/Os that I'm really a Kiwi.
Old Smokey (Tongue in cheek mode now OFF)
In Singapore and Indonesian FIRs, the radio calls are distinctly "THIS, (suitable pause), IS THE VOICE OF GOD!". Do they really have speech synthesisers?
On crossing the Australian FIRs - "Ahhh, gidday Brissy, how ya's doin? this is QANTAS..." (Nasal speech synthesiser switched on).
Oh my Gawd! I think I'll start telling my F/Os that I'm really a Kiwi.
Old Smokey (Tongue in cheek mode now OFF)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: mexico
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re Singapore ATC.
One factor also contributing to the traffic flow into/out of Singapore is the totally unpredictable speed control of carriers based in the region - no names.
speed control was much more precise in Oz - 300 knots up and down, 250 below unless cleared. Any different and you requested it from atc.
In Sin, you will see 210 knots at 50 miles or 340 knots at 15 miles - depends on how comfortable the driver is on the day, or how scared he is, or how close to meal allowance the flight is, or how many clouds are in the sky.
One factor also contributing to the traffic flow into/out of Singapore is the totally unpredictable speed control of carriers based in the region - no names.
speed control was much more precise in Oz - 300 knots up and down, 250 below unless cleared. Any different and you requested it from atc.
In Sin, you will see 210 knots at 50 miles or 340 knots at 15 miles - depends on how comfortable the driver is on the day, or how scared he is, or how close to meal allowance the flight is, or how many clouds are in the sky.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Smokey,
I see from your profile that you are a Singapore-based 777 pilot with a lot of experience.
I did the Singapore-Perth run last night and just thought that I would relate my feelings about the comms around Jakarta.
In QF, 767 drivers only get to do one Singapore pattern per roster, so ongoing exposure on this route is difficult. At peak times (late evening), however, I can't remember Jakarata's comms being as bad as they were last night.
At one point, the controller was controlling aircraft on two frequencies simultaneously, and only one frequency was audible to me - that is, he was issuing instructions to which we could not hear the requests or the replies. There were many, many overtransmissions and it took me four requests to get a 10 mile weather diversion inside radar coverage. The controller must have queried my requested diversion distance three times as other aircraft overtransmitted both me and him.
I do admit to getting a little testy at the end of the exchange (something I always try to avoid) mainly through frustration. I also try to speak more clearly and slowly in Jakarta and Singapore airspace becuase of potential language problems. This might explain why the "VOICE OF GOD" changes to "gday mate" at the FIR boudary.
As a last aside, one of your compatriots (I assume) Singapore 215 (about 15 minutes ahead of us) advised us of turbulence over Carnarvon at FL370 and told us it was much smoother at FL350. We thanked him very much for the information and descended on his advice - proves that their is still some professionalism and spirit of cooperation left out there.
I see from your profile that you are a Singapore-based 777 pilot with a lot of experience.
I did the Singapore-Perth run last night and just thought that I would relate my feelings about the comms around Jakarta.
In QF, 767 drivers only get to do one Singapore pattern per roster, so ongoing exposure on this route is difficult. At peak times (late evening), however, I can't remember Jakarata's comms being as bad as they were last night.
At one point, the controller was controlling aircraft on two frequencies simultaneously, and only one frequency was audible to me - that is, he was issuing instructions to which we could not hear the requests or the replies. There were many, many overtransmissions and it took me four requests to get a 10 mile weather diversion inside radar coverage. The controller must have queried my requested diversion distance three times as other aircraft overtransmitted both me and him.
I do admit to getting a little testy at the end of the exchange (something I always try to avoid) mainly through frustration. I also try to speak more clearly and slowly in Jakarta and Singapore airspace becuase of potential language problems. This might explain why the "VOICE OF GOD" changes to "gday mate" at the FIR boudary.
As a last aside, one of your compatriots (I assume) Singapore 215 (about 15 minutes ahead of us) advised us of turbulence over Carnarvon at FL370 and told us it was much smoother at FL350. We thanked him very much for the information and descended on his advice - proves that their is still some professionalism and spirit of cooperation left out there.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Smokey and Three Bars....good responses guys. It's refreshing on these forums to have views expressed in a pleasant constructive light. The opinions offered may be different but that's fine....debate is great if it's conducted in an adult way.
I have been curious to see the replies to my initial posting. Mixed bag that's for sure, but on the whole, the comments were kept civilised.
Basically that was my goal to begin with. I wanted to highlight an endemic lack of professional respect for other airlines, crew and ATC. So to have some positive reports is great to hear.
But, we do things differently, we must accept that. Why hassle foreign controllers? To instigate change?.....don't work. To make yourself feel better?.....may work. To get fired up and lose your temper?.....almost certainly works.
Chill out, be courteous to others, bite your lip when you have to, respect different cultures and the way they do things.....cut out the I AM GOD ATTITUDE......
Attitudes towards you will then change too....
I have been curious to see the replies to my initial posting. Mixed bag that's for sure, but on the whole, the comments were kept civilised.
Basically that was my goal to begin with. I wanted to highlight an endemic lack of professional respect for other airlines, crew and ATC. So to have some positive reports is great to hear.
But, we do things differently, we must accept that. Why hassle foreign controllers? To instigate change?.....don't work. To make yourself feel better?.....may work. To get fired up and lose your temper?.....almost certainly works.
Chill out, be courteous to others, bite your lip when you have to, respect different cultures and the way they do things.....cut out the I AM GOD ATTITUDE......
Attitudes towards you will then change too....
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Three Bars,
It was all tongue in cheek Three Bars, I think (as an Aussie) that I'm guilty of exactly the same thing. It is true, and it is also true that the basic good humour and courtesy is STILL there. It just take a few rotten apples......... you know the rest.
Happy Flying,
Old Smokey
It was all tongue in cheek Three Bars, I think (as an Aussie) that I'm guilty of exactly the same thing. It is true, and it is also true that the basic good humour and courtesy is STILL there. It just take a few rotten apples......... you know the rest.
Happy Flying,
Old Smokey
