Dags on the bum of Aviation - "Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation"
Thread Starter
Dags on the bum of Aviation - "Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation"
What exactly does the "Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation' do except mouth off about others who dare to tread where they as individuals are too useless to do.
Armchair experts who are quoted by the media (more armchair experts) as knowledgable in their field. How? Why?
What have Ian Thomas and the prat that own this "Centre" actually done for aviation except leach money out of it for their own selfish ends.
Parasites..............
This article reminds me all too well of "Operation Sewn Up" dear chaps. Hold our heads up high over that little effort do we?
(Qualification: above message compiled after consumption of adequate lubricating fluids - potential for regret later!)
========================
From Todays Sydney Morning Herald
Nothin' but grey skies do some see
By Scott Rochfort
March 25, 2005
On a wing and a prayer
Paul Stoddart is facing an uphill battle to have OzJet in the air by late August, with the carrier yet to lodge a formal application with the safety regulator to operate services and yet to sign several key commercial agreements it claims it already has in place.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority is expected to scrutinise OzJet's plans to operate 30-year-old Boeing 737-200s and it could take up to 12 months for the airline to get an Aircraft Operators Certificate.
OzJet chief executive Hans van Pelt has dismissed talk the airline is behind schedule.
He said the airline's planned timetable to establish itself at its new Adelaide base and start services within five months were "moving ahead nicely".
As for delays in OzJet gaining its certificate, he said: "The people saying it are completely unaware of when we first [met] CASA and when we got the balls rolling."
But a CASA spokesman recently told the Herald it would take at least six months for OzJet to get its AOC. Virgin Blue took 10 months to get its certificate in 2000.
"OzJet is now in the throes of appointing the final people to run the airline," van Pelt said, referring to a chief pilot, head engineer and maintenance controller.
Stoddart recently returned to the UK before completing negotiations with liquidators KordaMentha over the purchase of four BA146s from the failed Ansett.
OzJet, meanwhile, claims on its website that it has a "partnership with Ansett Aviation Engineering Services". But this appears premature.
The former Ansett maintenance division has yet to sign any agreement to maintain OzJet's proposed fleet of 10 aircraft, including the four previously owned Ansett.
At a media conference in Sydney last week, van Pelt said OzJet had three of the former Ansett BAE 146s undergoing heavy maintenance "D" checks in Melbourne, indicating the company already owned the aircraft.
But he appeared to contradict himself on Thursday when he said a contract to buy the BAE 146s was "close to being finalised".
Despite OzJet still failing to show any hard evidence of the airline possibly gaining approval to fly by August, van Pelt said: "I'm yet to meet a person that says that this isn't going to work."
But there are plenty who doubt OzJet's chances of survival.
"I would have thought the model was vulnerable to say the least," Ian Thomas, a director of the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation, said.
Thomas said the key problem was OzJet's focus on business travellers, in that it would be chasing a market tightly guarded by Qantas and aggressively pursued by Virgin Blue.
Shortly after issuing its third profit warning since August, Virgin is desperate to stem its falling yields and dependence on price-sensitive budget travellers by lifting the proportion of business travellers on its jets.
This was seen recently with Virgin launching its corporate-focused "Blue Plus" fare. The ticket offers passengers fully flexible refundable tickets, a 32 kilogram baggage allowance, free entry to Blue Room lounges and priority check-in.
Virgin's attempts to crack the corporate market are set to become more aggressive when Patrick Corp boss Chris Corrigan moves to take management control of the airline next month. It is believed Corrigan favours Virgin adopting a frequent-flyer scheme.
"There's not a lot of room in the market for a new entrant," Thomas said, adding that any airline willing to take on Virgin Blue, Jetstar and Qantas would need to have extremely deep pockets.
With the backing of Dutch property group Muermans, OzJet claims to have $70 million in funds.
Another major disadvantage for OzJet will be being based in Adelaide. Pundits say OzJet could incur hefty operating costs - not only from its fuel-guzzling fleet of 30-year-old 737-200s - but by having to set up offices in Melbourne (where it plans to maintain its fleet) and Sydney.
Remainder of article here:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/...525290312.html
Armchair experts who are quoted by the media (more armchair experts) as knowledgable in their field. How? Why?
What have Ian Thomas and the prat that own this "Centre" actually done for aviation except leach money out of it for their own selfish ends.
Parasites..............
This article reminds me all too well of "Operation Sewn Up" dear chaps. Hold our heads up high over that little effort do we?
(Qualification: above message compiled after consumption of adequate lubricating fluids - potential for regret later!)
========================
From Todays Sydney Morning Herald
Nothin' but grey skies do some see
By Scott Rochfort
March 25, 2005
On a wing and a prayer
Paul Stoddart is facing an uphill battle to have OzJet in the air by late August, with the carrier yet to lodge a formal application with the safety regulator to operate services and yet to sign several key commercial agreements it claims it already has in place.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority is expected to scrutinise OzJet's plans to operate 30-year-old Boeing 737-200s and it could take up to 12 months for the airline to get an Aircraft Operators Certificate.
OzJet chief executive Hans van Pelt has dismissed talk the airline is behind schedule.
He said the airline's planned timetable to establish itself at its new Adelaide base and start services within five months were "moving ahead nicely".
As for delays in OzJet gaining its certificate, he said: "The people saying it are completely unaware of when we first [met] CASA and when we got the balls rolling."
But a CASA spokesman recently told the Herald it would take at least six months for OzJet to get its AOC. Virgin Blue took 10 months to get its certificate in 2000.
"OzJet is now in the throes of appointing the final people to run the airline," van Pelt said, referring to a chief pilot, head engineer and maintenance controller.
Stoddart recently returned to the UK before completing negotiations with liquidators KordaMentha over the purchase of four BA146s from the failed Ansett.
OzJet, meanwhile, claims on its website that it has a "partnership with Ansett Aviation Engineering Services". But this appears premature.
The former Ansett maintenance division has yet to sign any agreement to maintain OzJet's proposed fleet of 10 aircraft, including the four previously owned Ansett.
At a media conference in Sydney last week, van Pelt said OzJet had three of the former Ansett BAE 146s undergoing heavy maintenance "D" checks in Melbourne, indicating the company already owned the aircraft.
But he appeared to contradict himself on Thursday when he said a contract to buy the BAE 146s was "close to being finalised".
Despite OzJet still failing to show any hard evidence of the airline possibly gaining approval to fly by August, van Pelt said: "I'm yet to meet a person that says that this isn't going to work."
But there are plenty who doubt OzJet's chances of survival.
"I would have thought the model was vulnerable to say the least," Ian Thomas, a director of the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation, said.
Thomas said the key problem was OzJet's focus on business travellers, in that it would be chasing a market tightly guarded by Qantas and aggressively pursued by Virgin Blue.
Shortly after issuing its third profit warning since August, Virgin is desperate to stem its falling yields and dependence on price-sensitive budget travellers by lifting the proportion of business travellers on its jets.
This was seen recently with Virgin launching its corporate-focused "Blue Plus" fare. The ticket offers passengers fully flexible refundable tickets, a 32 kilogram baggage allowance, free entry to Blue Room lounges and priority check-in.
Virgin's attempts to crack the corporate market are set to become more aggressive when Patrick Corp boss Chris Corrigan moves to take management control of the airline next month. It is believed Corrigan favours Virgin adopting a frequent-flyer scheme.
"There's not a lot of room in the market for a new entrant," Thomas said, adding that any airline willing to take on Virgin Blue, Jetstar and Qantas would need to have extremely deep pockets.
With the backing of Dutch property group Muermans, OzJet claims to have $70 million in funds.
Another major disadvantage for OzJet will be being based in Adelaide. Pundits say OzJet could incur hefty operating costs - not only from its fuel-guzzling fleet of 30-year-old 737-200s - but by having to set up offices in Melbourne (where it plans to maintain its fleet) and Sydney.
Remainder of article here:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/...525290312.html
Everybody hates a knocker for sure.
In 1999, another operator planned to enter the market with 737-200's and was 'unoffically' told by CASA that they would encounter great difficulty getting the airworthiness aspects approved (ie; read 'We don't want this old aircraft in OZ skies so we will NOT approve it') and 'recommend you consider another type'.....guess what...they chose the 717.
Food for thought
In 1999, another operator planned to enter the market with 737-200's and was 'unoffically' told by CASA that they would encounter great difficulty getting the airworthiness aspects approved (ie; read 'We don't want this old aircraft in OZ skies so we will NOT approve it') and 'recommend you consider another type'.....guess what...they chose the 717.
Food for thought
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: On a Ship Near You
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What exactly does the "Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation' do except mouth off about others who dare to tread where they as individuals are too useless to do.
Armchair experts who are quoted by the media (more armchair experts) as knowledgable in their field. How? Why?
What have Ian Thomas and the prat that own this "Centre" actually done for aviation except leach money out of it for their own selfish ends.
Parasites..............
Armchair experts who are quoted by the media (more armchair experts) as knowledgable in their field. How? Why?
What have Ian Thomas and the prat that own this "Centre" actually done for aviation except leach money out of it for their own selfish ends.
Parasites..............
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Godzone
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So lets get this straight, Al E. Vator, Thomas is quoted in the SMH article as saying:
1. "I would have thought the model was vulnerable to say the least," Ian Thomas, a director of the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation, said. Thomas said the key problem was OzJet's focus on business travellers, in that it would be chasing a market tightly guarded by Qantas and aggressively pursued by Virgin Blue.
2. There's not a lot of room in the market for a new entrant," Thomas said, adding that any airline willing to take on Virgin Blue, Jetstar and Qantas would need to have extremely deep pockets.
These are not unreasonable statements especially if you make it your business to sell reports about aviation business - subscribers will desert capa if they are not happy with the quality of their analysis. They are paid real money for their analysis and research and if it is found more wanting than wanted, they will go bust.
More interestingly, Al-e, why not tell us why such comments drive you to such bitter vitriol? Clearly you have a personal problem with the "prat" who owns this business and leaches a living from you. Do tell us what it is as it clearly must be something very personal.
Hope the lubricating fluids did not ruin your underpants.
Cheers
Pug
1. "I would have thought the model was vulnerable to say the least," Ian Thomas, a director of the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation, said. Thomas said the key problem was OzJet's focus on business travellers, in that it would be chasing a market tightly guarded by Qantas and aggressively pursued by Virgin Blue.
2. There's not a lot of room in the market for a new entrant," Thomas said, adding that any airline willing to take on Virgin Blue, Jetstar and Qantas would need to have extremely deep pockets.
These are not unreasonable statements especially if you make it your business to sell reports about aviation business - subscribers will desert capa if they are not happy with the quality of their analysis. They are paid real money for their analysis and research and if it is found more wanting than wanted, they will go bust.
More interestingly, Al-e, why not tell us why such comments drive you to such bitter vitriol? Clearly you have a personal problem with the "prat" who owns this business and leaches a living from you. Do tell us what it is as it clearly must be something very personal.
Hope the lubricating fluids did not ruin your underpants.
Cheers
Pug
Thread Starter
There is often regret when reading one's posts compiled with a degree of 'liquid motivation'. Not in this case however one bit.
Specifically Pug, the reference to 'Operation Sewn Up' was with regards to this organisation's involvement on behalf of a major carrier or two, to manipulate the cessation of services of a new entrant some years back. Involvement with that carrier 'drives me to such bitter vitriol'. In defence of the named individual I don't think he personally had anything to do with that operation (?) but his 'superior' (a non-entity whose name escapes me) did.
So when I read of this organisation targeting any ambitious new entrepreneur I get annoyed. I get annoyed because parasitic weasels such as these (who contribute zilch to benefit aviation) can by their comments adveresely affect market perceptions of a new or small carrier.
What 'expert qualifications' are possessed by these dags on the rear end of aviation. How many decades as CEO's of airlines, or hours as widebody Captains do they have? Why then are they quoted by the media? Why not quote Kylie Manogue or Pauline Hanson? They are equally as credible from what I can see.
So again I would ask the head of 'the Centre', can you hold your head/s high when you recall your efforts which contributed to so many people becoming unemployed? Yes the fat little paycheck may have been nice for you but would you recall with pride to your grandchildren the parasitic role you played in that operation?
Hardly a career high in my opinion.
Pilots, engineers, CEO's, Flight Attendants, Baggage Handlers all contibute to benefit aviation. Scumbags like these do not.
Also Pug, undergarments very much intact thanks!
Al.
Specifically Pug, the reference to 'Operation Sewn Up' was with regards to this organisation's involvement on behalf of a major carrier or two, to manipulate the cessation of services of a new entrant some years back. Involvement with that carrier 'drives me to such bitter vitriol'. In defence of the named individual I don't think he personally had anything to do with that operation (?) but his 'superior' (a non-entity whose name escapes me) did.
So when I read of this organisation targeting any ambitious new entrepreneur I get annoyed. I get annoyed because parasitic weasels such as these (who contribute zilch to benefit aviation) can by their comments adveresely affect market perceptions of a new or small carrier.
What 'expert qualifications' are possessed by these dags on the rear end of aviation. How many decades as CEO's of airlines, or hours as widebody Captains do they have? Why then are they quoted by the media? Why not quote Kylie Manogue or Pauline Hanson? They are equally as credible from what I can see.
So again I would ask the head of 'the Centre', can you hold your head/s high when you recall your efforts which contributed to so many people becoming unemployed? Yes the fat little paycheck may have been nice for you but would you recall with pride to your grandchildren the parasitic role you played in that operation?
Hardly a career high in my opinion.
Pilots, engineers, CEO's, Flight Attendants, Baggage Handlers all contibute to benefit aviation. Scumbags like these do not.
Also Pug, undergarments very much intact thanks!
Al.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Godzone
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Al
A fair and reasonable explanation.
However, I can, through my own entirely separate experience, ratify that corporates will purchase consultants reports.
The media, well another story, they need rapid responses to fill column inches/6pm news and consultants, who need media exposure, clearly drop everything to give today's views in return for the by-line.
Cheers
Pug
A fair and reasonable explanation.
However, I can, through my own entirely separate experience, ratify that corporates will purchase consultants reports.
The media, well another story, they need rapid responses to fill column inches/6pm news and consultants, who need media exposure, clearly drop everything to give today's views in return for the by-line.
Cheers
Pug
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking of said "Head of the Centre for Asia-Pacific Aviation", one Peter Harbison if my memory serves me well, I remember the launch of Mt Hotham airport... At which time he said something along the lines of how wonderful it was to have a jet airport at Mt Hotham. However he did not specify which jets would be able to get in or out of said jetport.
Apart from the well known Hawker Harrier single-passenger airliner, are there any other jet airliners that could get in and out of Hotham?
Look, they're a consulting firm that's been around a while so they must be doing something right. But yes, they do come out with some prattish pronouncements from time to time.
As for how long it will take OzJet to get an AOC, who knows? I'm not sure CASA is obliged to give a blow-by-blow account of how any application may be going, apart from being accountable to the applicant during the process, and the public at the end of the process.
But if 30-year old zero-lifed Sea Sprites can get certified, why wouldn't an adequately maintained 732 Blunderbus?
VHCU
CASA don't "certify" aircraft, they accept foreign CofA's. The Sea Sprites aren't on CASA's civil register - and it appears even the Navy are having problems "accepting" the Sea Sprites.
Does the 732 have a noise problem in Australia or are these aircraft hush kitted?
Woomera
Apart from the well known Hawker Harrier single-passenger airliner, are there any other jet airliners that could get in and out of Hotham?
Look, they're a consulting firm that's been around a while so they must be doing something right. But yes, they do come out with some prattish pronouncements from time to time.
As for how long it will take OzJet to get an AOC, who knows? I'm not sure CASA is obliged to give a blow-by-blow account of how any application may be going, apart from being accountable to the applicant during the process, and the public at the end of the process.
But if 30-year old zero-lifed Sea Sprites can get certified, why wouldn't an adequately maintained 732 Blunderbus?
VHCU
CASA don't "certify" aircraft, they accept foreign CofA's. The Sea Sprites aren't on CASA's civil register - and it appears even the Navy are having problems "accepting" the Sea Sprites.
Does the 732 have a noise problem in Australia or are these aircraft hush kitted?
Woomera
Last edited by Woomera; 25th Mar 2005 at 11:55.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VH-Cheer Up asks
"are there any other jet airliners that could get in and out of Hotham?
My provider of food and nice belly rubs tells me that Southern (remember them) planned to use its Bae146's into YHOT.
tipsy
prrrrrrrrrrrrr
"are there any other jet airliners that could get in and out of Hotham?
My provider of food and nice belly rubs tells me that Southern (remember them) planned to use its Bae146's into YHOT.
tipsy
prrrrrrrrrrrrr
Thread Starter
VH-Cheer Up...yes you are correct - you recall the name of the leach who runs this outfit.
If I had the time I would do a search and find a quote made some time back by this individual and reproduced on PPRUNE at the time.
If I recall correctly it was somewhere towards mid-2001 and he made an outlandish statement along the lines that "he did not expect Virgin Blue to be still existant within a few months".
Fool.
Not only opinionated (for his own ends) but innaccurate as well!
Hence I laughed when I last month saw more of his drivvel being quoted by a reporter as "the words of respected aviation analyst".
Respected by whom and for what exactly?
If I had the time I would do a search and find a quote made some time back by this individual and reproduced on PPRUNE at the time.
If I recall correctly it was somewhere towards mid-2001 and he made an outlandish statement along the lines that "he did not expect Virgin Blue to be still existant within a few months".
Fool.
Not only opinionated (for his own ends) but innaccurate as well!
Hence I laughed when I last month saw more of his drivvel being quoted by a reporter as "the words of respected aviation analyst".
Respected by whom and for what exactly?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 937
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FINALLY! posts this question
All I see them world wide give "EXPERT" comments on aviation / airline /areospace. Who are these guys, what experts? They have even managed their links on airline websites......
Will some one pls inform us all what do these guys really do.
All I see them world wide give "EXPERT" comments on aviation / airline /areospace. Who are these guys, what experts? They have even managed their links on airline websites......
Will some one pls inform us all what do these guys really do.
