737 gear down at high speed -Good technique, or not?
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737 gear down at high speed -Good technique, or not?
Swopping stories of flying the other day and the subject came up of pilots who make a habit of dropping the landing gear in the 737 at 250 knots in order to salvage a stuffed up profile. Speaking from the perspective of a passenger I must say the sudden noise of the gear actuation at high speed can be quite alarming.
If track shortening is offered by ATC when the aircraft is already close to the airport and the new profile is immediately very high, is it really necessary to frighten the horses by throwing out the gear at high speed, instead of using intelligent energy control and asking ATC for a couple of miles in which to get the flaps out first before the gear as normal?
If track shortening is offered by ATC when the aircraft is already close to the airport and the new profile is immediately very high, is it really necessary to frighten the horses by throwing out the gear at high speed, instead of using intelligent energy control and asking ATC for a couple of miles in which to get the flaps out first before the gear as normal?
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Ceart go Lor Phoenix, (absolutely right)
They have even ploughed a few fields for a few lucky farmers now and then with their 737's, I wonder did they get a financial EEC rebate on that, as agriculture is probably not their core business
They have even ploughed a few fields for a few lucky farmers now and then with their 737's, I wonder did they get a financial EEC rebate on that, as agriculture is probably not their core business
I spend a bit of time in the back of 737's (and other airliners for that matter), but have not noticed this quite alarming event. Must be just a story, as you suggest. 
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Captain Fathom. Your profile reveals ATPL so obviously a gear extension noise level at high speed from your perspective as pax would not be unduly worrying.
From the viewpoint of a non-aviation passenger I can assure you it can make you look up in surprise.
Like harsh braking when taxying, and jerking of brakes when the aircraft stops, the extension of landing gear at unnecessarily high speed is not to be encouraged.
From the viewpoint of a non-aviation passenger I can assure you it can make you look up in surprise.
Like harsh braking when taxying, and jerking of brakes when the aircraft stops, the extension of landing gear at unnecessarily high speed is not to be encouraged.
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Hudson, I would suggest that if you are offered track shortening or high speed descents; it is usually to facilitate sequencing with following traffic. In most, not all occasions, to ask for extra track miles versus making a little extra noise for the punters would not be so helpful to our ATCO bretheren. Cheers
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250 is not hi speed an it takes morre then a couple of miles extra if you dicide to use flaps insted
its called latral thinking hudson but sum people have to follow a set rootine an carnt be capabel of doing sum things out of sequinse
are you one of them hubson?
its called latral thinking hudson but sum people have to follow a set rootine an carnt be capabel of doing sum things out of sequinse
are you one of them hubson?
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Nothing wrong with using Gear Down, in my opinion. 737 nose gear extends rearward so it isn't having to work any harder.
I was always taught (possibly wrongly in this enlightened age of CRM...) that the speedbrake is for pussies.
Maybe passengers being reminded they are in an airliner, not a library or a cafe, isn't a bad thing. A lot of people treat the experience with contempt or indifference rather than as something which can potentially kill them if something goes wrong (eg attention to safety briefs, standing in turbulence, etc).
A passenger hearing the LG extend and suddenly remembering he's in an aircraft doesn't bother me.
I was always taught (possibly wrongly in this enlightened age of CRM...) that the speedbrake is for pussies.
Maybe passengers being reminded they are in an airliner, not a library or a cafe, isn't a bad thing. A lot of people treat the experience with contempt or indifference rather than as something which can potentially kill them if something goes wrong (eg attention to safety briefs, standing in turbulence, etc).
A passenger hearing the LG extend and suddenly remembering he's in an aircraft doesn't bother me.
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I cannot speak for the 737, however the same question may be asked of other types. I have no problems in extending the gear at a higher than normal speed if it means that it will put me back on a profile that allows me to get to ground, keeping with both STAR and ATC requirements.
Speaking from my own personal experience, once you have visited an airport a few times, you should have some gist of what they will do with you, given time of day and conjestion etc, and have a couple of cards up your sleeve for just this sort of occasion.
I would think that if this was a constantly recurring issue, then maybe some advice (without having to use the training word) may be passed to bring everything back into check?
I believe that everyone in thier own mind has their own technique and some ride closer to the edge than others. I have screwed up a couple of descents and had to carry out a missed approach because of one of them. Not my most shining day, however it taugh me a lesson on what I should be doing.
Everyone has something to learn...
Cheers,
b747heavy
Speaking from my own personal experience, once you have visited an airport a few times, you should have some gist of what they will do with you, given time of day and conjestion etc, and have a couple of cards up your sleeve for just this sort of occasion.
I would think that if this was a constantly recurring issue, then maybe some advice (without having to use the training word) may be passed to bring everything back into check?
I believe that everyone in thier own mind has their own technique and some ride closer to the edge than others. I have screwed up a couple of descents and had to carry out a missed approach because of one of them. Not my most shining day, however it taugh me a lesson on what I should be doing.
Everyone has something to learn...
Cheers,
b747heavy
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I don't fly anything that big but I have to agree with itchybum.
I wonder, Hudson, have you ever flown in a 146??? The noise associated with Gear Down at any speed would make any non-aviation passenger think twice about the airworthiness of the a/c
I wonder, Hudson, have you ever flown in a 146??? The noise associated with Gear Down at any speed would make any non-aviation passenger think twice about the airworthiness of the a/c
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Putting the gear down early to salvage an approach may be bad form, it is noisy.
Having said that the situation the aircraft is in may not necessarily be the crew's fault. ie ATC change of clearance, incresing tailwind etc.
What is bad form is sitting on your hands hoping some miracle will fix your problem.
Having said that the situation the aircraft is in may not necessarily be the crew's fault. ie ATC change of clearance, incresing tailwind etc.
What is bad form is sitting on your hands hoping some miracle will fix your problem.
the extension of landing gear at unnecessarily high speed is not to be encouraged.
Hopefully, I won't be removed from the aircraft.
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I stand corrected as posted in a hurry, I use 200 kts - that's it.
Yes 200 kts is close to the limit as well, but we are not talking common SOP's here, we are talking track shortening etc etc.
Yes 200 kts is close to the limit as well, but we are not talking common SOP's here, we are talking track shortening etc etc.
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jetblues is on the right track... F10, 200kts, just push her down and it drops outta the sky... gr down as well? that'll fix most probs...
My airlines FCTM says gear and flap aren't to be used as a speedbrake. Whilst it's good practice to take everything right on schedule, this isn't always feasible - so if neccessary, gr dn at 250 works a treat with a bit of speedbrake, lvl chg 200 take flaps to 10 as you can/dare
wouldn't happen too often these days and all though with 250/5000 making descents a little more idiot proof
My airlines FCTM says gear and flap aren't to be used as a speedbrake. Whilst it's good practice to take everything right on schedule, this isn't always feasible - so if neccessary, gr dn at 250 works a treat with a bit of speedbrake, lvl chg 200 take flaps to 10 as you can/dare
wouldn't happen too often these days and all though with 250/5000 making descents a little more idiot proof