737 gear down at high speed -Good technique, or not?
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oz -Sometimes
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Speedbrake is next to useless at lower speed <250KTS. It can be used with up to FLAP10. I would think the punters would find the vibration created using brake more alarming than the 2 seconds of gear noise.
Ask ATC for extra TRK miles?
Go back to Bankstown!
Using flap and higher speed will work, but your not doing to flap tracks and/or engineers any favours. Use of gear up to 270KTS limit to extend is the best way. The NG is hard to slow due to the critical wing, so if you hot why not stay clean and use the gear and thus not wear out the flap runners?
Ask ATC for extra TRK miles?
Go back to Bankstown!Using flap and higher speed will work, but your not doing to flap tracks and/or engineers any favours. Use of gear up to 270KTS limit to extend is the best way. The NG is hard to slow due to the critical wing, so if you hot why not stay clean and use the gear and thus not wear out the flap runners?
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ITS ALL BOLLACKS ANYWAY.
I agree with Itchy, don't hurt em one bit to be reminded they are on a tube of METAL, with the potential to twist and melt, nah we won't go there?.
Personly I hate sitting in the back of one of those FROGY thingies, and listening to all the Hyd Pumps, banging and whiring ,and banging again, and that is even before one is off old mother earth.
Any way the Manual for the old crate I fly states 270kts max.
250kts, wots the deal?.
Personly I hate sitting in the back of one of those FROGY thingies, and listening to all the Hyd Pumps, banging and whiring ,and banging again, and that is even before one is off old mother earth.
Any way the Manual for the old crate I fly states 270kts max.
250kts, wots the deal?.
The Reverend
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You guys were obviously not around in the days of the Convair 880. You could extend the main gear only for speed brake at 374 knots and get on profile on RW13 at Kai Tak doing 300knots over Stonecutters! The only other aircraft I know of that had the capability to extend main gear only for speed brake, was the early B747-100.
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CRACK
yeah i agree with you "its all bollocks!" As with most of the ****e that goes on in Oz.
The NG also has the 270kts extend limit. The reference to 250 was that in the NG the speed brake is pretty useless unless you are above this speed. Remember the NG has the super Crit wing not like the -400/300 and much hard to slow. The Elevator Tab Cycle Limit Oscillation restriction has been lifted on all the NGs in Oz as they all have the reenforced tab.
At the end of the day, when paxing i havnt seen the pax jump out of their seats because the gear comes down. Sound like hog**** to me.
yeah i agree with you "its all bollocks!" As with most of the ****e that goes on in Oz.
The NG also has the 270kts extend limit. The reference to 250 was that in the NG the speed brake is pretty useless unless you are above this speed. Remember the NG has the super Crit wing not like the -400/300 and much hard to slow. The Elevator Tab Cycle Limit Oscillation restriction has been lifted on all the NGs in Oz as they all have the reenforced tab.
At the end of the day, when paxing i havnt seen the pax jump out of their seats because the gear comes down. Sound like hog**** to me.
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HotDog
Please come back to Hongkers and bring your 880 with you mate. We've got a bunch of big girls blouses here now who won't even hold 160 to 4 for us. Straight in at CLK is just sooooooooo boring now.
Please come back to Hongkers and bring your 880 with you mate. We've got a bunch of big girls blouses here now who won't even hold 160 to 4 for us. Straight in at CLK is just sooooooooo boring now.
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HotDog
The Gulfstream 1 (the original with the Darts). The speedbrake was the main gear. Three ten knots I think it was (been a long time). Over the Vne figure anyway.
A gentleman's aeroplane that one! (as well as a rocket in its day)
Snooze
The Gulfstream 1 (the original with the Darts). The speedbrake was the main gear. Three ten knots I think it was (been a long time). Over the Vne figure anyway.
A gentleman's aeroplane that one! (as well as a rocket in its day)
Snooze
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I agree GTR. A lot of woooses out there, even worse, woooses finding time to write about this silly issue. C'mon guys, it's a no-brainer. Know your limits and the aircraft's and use the gear if you need to or want to adjust your profile. Why limit yourselves the option?
As far as I'm aware, most passengers (even I, sometimes) are quite excited by the sound of the gear as it's the sign of imminent landing and "FINALLY", arrival to their destination. No more repetitive "are we there yet?" mantras, the sound of the gear almost marking the final reporting point a minute from landing.
As far as I'm aware, most passengers (even I, sometimes) are quite excited by the sound of the gear as it's the sign of imminent landing and "FINALLY", arrival to their destination. No more repetitive "are we there yet?" mantras, the sound of the gear almost marking the final reporting point a minute from landing.
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Blue Eagle,
I think whenever a pilot says "don't worry" on the PA, that's when passengers worry. I think best to say nothing. Most novice passengers would just ask someone next to them what the noise is and usually get a confident answer.
I think whenever a pilot says "don't worry" on the PA, that's when passengers worry. I think best to say nothing. Most novice passengers would just ask someone next to them what the noise is and usually get a confident answer.
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If its necessary do you really think we have time to make a PA?
If the gear is used at a higher speed it takes about 1 second to slow to
About the normal extend speed, so it all sound like Bollox to me.
If the gear is used at a higher speed it takes about 1 second to slow to
About the normal extend speed, so it all sound like Bollox to me.
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Yes Bank Angle I do! Unexplained noises and vibrations are not "bollox" to a passenger you hope to see again.
In thirty six years of flying I experienced quite a lot of unusual situations and a reassuring PA is far better than silence from the flight deck, ask the cabin crew, ask the passengers. The emphasis has to be on a well delivered PA and from recent experience, flying domestically, not enough effort is made to do the PA job properly, on a flight from SYD to MEL all we got was a muffled mumble that contained far too many 'errrs'.
In thirty six years of flying I experienced quite a lot of unusual situations and a reassuring PA is far better than silence from the flight deck, ask the cabin crew, ask the passengers. The emphasis has to be on a well delivered PA and from recent experience, flying domestically, not enough effort is made to do the PA job properly, on a flight from SYD to MEL all we got was a muffled mumble that contained far too many 'errrs'.
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NAMPS
I think the noise you hear on a 146 on approach is actually a harmonic created as the flaps are deployed. As the gap changes shape the note deepens and the reverse is the case on climbout. Eastwest had a policy of explaining this to the passengers during the briefing. I guess it did save changing seat covers.
I do not recall any landing gear associated noise in the 300 or 200 series apart from the normal thuds and groans.
Best regards
EWL
I think the noise you hear on a 146 on approach is actually a harmonic created as the flaps are deployed. As the gap changes shape the note deepens and the reverse is the case on climbout. Eastwest had a policy of explaining this to the passengers during the briefing. I guess it did save changing seat covers.
I do not recall any landing gear associated noise in the 300 or 200 series apart from the normal thuds and groans.
Best regards
EWL
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I don't think a PA is necessary. If the punters hear nothing from up the front they confidently presume all is well. Especially when the seasoned travellers around them all studiously ignore the thumps, crashes, bangs, grindings, etc (in the airbus).
A passenger we "hope to see again" has little choice of alternatives these days and the airlines don't care much anyway, it seems... IE The customer care snail-mail contact, frequent flyer hassles getting your preferred free flight, surly staff, 30min cut-off, no exceptions, etc. So why should the pilot be left carrying the can and worrying about follow-up business by the pax? Or are we the only pros left in the industry? I digress....
It's a fumbled mumbled Mar'n Fr'son PA from the front office that makes people think "they're hiding something if they were concerned enough to speak up and explain something..."
A passenger we "hope to see again" has little choice of alternatives these days and the airlines don't care much anyway, it seems... IE The customer care snail-mail contact, frequent flyer hassles getting your preferred free flight, surly staff, 30min cut-off, no exceptions, etc. So why should the pilot be left carrying the can and worrying about follow-up business by the pax? Or are we the only pros left in the industry? I digress....
It's a fumbled mumbled Mar'n Fr'son PA from the front office that makes people think "they're hiding something if they were concerned enough to speak up and explain something..."
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Thanks Capt Claret and EWL.
That could well be the case. I must say whenever I fly in 'em, I usually have my head in a newpaper.
Cheers
That could well be the case. I must say whenever I fly in 'em, I usually have my head in a newpaper.
Cheers
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I know, I know.............I've got the answer!
If all you good burner drivin folk would kindly dangle the rubber at a somewhat higher speed, the SLF would so quickly become familiarised with all the "bumping, grinding, whirring, banging and extra wind noise", that you'd only have to worry about making PAs when you put em down in the traditionally aimed for cool, calm and collected manner we been trying for, for years now!!!! 
Itchy hit the nail...................If they all of a sudden have to come out of their coma for landing, then you've given em one hell of a smooth and pleasant flight!
Itchy hit the nail...................If they all of a sudden have to come out of their coma for landing, then you've given em one hell of a smooth and pleasant flight!
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[grumpy mode on]
1) Making a PA whilst on approach - particularly when busy doing something a little non-standard...? No. Not clever.
2) Is anyone seriously listening to a passenger lecture us on how we should fly an approach profile? I sure hope not.
3) An aircraft is an unusual environment for a passenger, whilst for us pilots it is our home away from home. Pax shouldn't be surprised to hear the odd noise. If they are, they can ask the cabin crew, who in my experience are pretty smart, and know the noises pretty well.
4) It doesn't hurt, every now and again, for pax to be reminded that they are travelling in a complex mechanical device, in an environment where exposure to the outside temperature and pressure could result in near-instant death. All those people on ten quid tickets take their transport for granted these days, not realising that their continued existence is down to expert manufacturers, and ultimately, their crew. It isn't easy, or simple, or straightforward. Maybe we have made a rod for our own backs by making it all look so routine...
[grumpy mode off]
1) Making a PA whilst on approach - particularly when busy doing something a little non-standard...? No. Not clever.
2) Is anyone seriously listening to a passenger lecture us on how we should fly an approach profile? I sure hope not.
3) An aircraft is an unusual environment for a passenger, whilst for us pilots it is our home away from home. Pax shouldn't be surprised to hear the odd noise. If they are, they can ask the cabin crew, who in my experience are pretty smart, and know the noises pretty well.
4) It doesn't hurt, every now and again, for pax to be reminded that they are travelling in a complex mechanical device, in an environment where exposure to the outside temperature and pressure could result in near-instant death. All those people on ten quid tickets take their transport for granted these days, not realising that their continued existence is down to expert manufacturers, and ultimately, their crew. It isn't easy, or simple, or straightforward. Maybe we have made a rod for our own backs by making it all look so routine...
[grumpy mode off]