Question for the '89ers
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Yes Kraptin is right there was not a strike,the pilot group almost to a man resigned.When someone resigns the employer replaces that person in the best way possible and that is all that happened.Ansett was the best job I ever had and I made the most of it,now reaping the rewards of cheaper air travel feeding my tourist business.Kraptin is a dinosour and needs to move on but I personally thank him and his like minded friends for facilitating the changes to the industry.I think the younger generation understands that whilst operating a modern aircraft requires some unusual skills one should not start to think that those computor skills set them too far apart from the normal populance.
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AAAAAAAHHHHH! REALITY CHECK.........Good Kaptin!!!!!!!
I wonder what would your uncle would say if he heard that you DID d want to work for those "Bas...ds" and WENT to them on the SLY to get a job when you realized it was all turning to ****e!
As for the "conspiracy theory" ...........................
I wonder what would your uncle would say if he heard that you DID d want to work for those "Bas...ds" and WENT to them on the SLY to get a job when you realized it was all turning to ****e!
As for the "conspiracy theory" ...........................
Last edited by Woomera; 28th Feb 2005 at 21:48.
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Richard Cranium........mmmmmmm
'at best an intermediate certificate ex tradesman that managed to get a pilots licence with no formal education'
You must be joking friend, would you like to limit the pilot ranks to your educated friends who have 'honours in industrial relations......who later got a phd.......'
You didn't happen to read Lindsay Fox's story a week or two ago?
By the way Richard, I will have fries with that.
You must be joking friend, would you like to limit the pilot ranks to your educated friends who have 'honours in industrial relations......who later got a phd.......'
You didn't happen to read Lindsay Fox's story a week or two ago?
By the way Richard, I will have fries with that.
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Cute one: The score so far is three users thread banned for a short period whilst they cool off, and four posts edited.
All users are aware of PPRuNe zero tolerance to certain aspects of the ’89 pilot’s dispute. Most of what is being raised in this thread is simply a repetitious rehash of what has been said many times over the past sixteen years. Personal perspectives and opinions may never change, nor it seems, will either side ever bury the hatchet.
The same old arguments are not going to be regurgitated again and again on PPRuNe.
We’ll let this thread run for a further day, however if the posts continue to degenerate down the usual path, the thread will be locked.
Woomera
All users are aware of PPRuNe zero tolerance to certain aspects of the ’89 pilot’s dispute. Most of what is being raised in this thread is simply a repetitious rehash of what has been said many times over the past sixteen years. Personal perspectives and opinions may never change, nor it seems, will either side ever bury the hatchet.
The same old arguments are not going to be regurgitated again and again on PPRuNe.
We’ll let this thread run for a further day, however if the posts continue to degenerate down the usual path, the thread will be locked.
Woomera
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KaptinM - while I have no wish to comment on the subject, one point in your post on p3 was, to me, very revealing. You said "...whose son subsequently drowned in a swimming accident, however NONE of the QF pilots attended the funeral".
What are we to infer from this? That the QF pilots were correct in their action in not attending the funeral?
Were they so bereft of humanity that they could not put aside their work differences, which were purely of a philosophical nature, sufficiently long to give HUMAN support to a family in grief?
What does that tell us about the pilot group as people, instead of as pilots?
KInd regards,
TheNightOwl.
What are we to infer from this? That the QF pilots were correct in their action in not attending the funeral?
Were they so bereft of humanity that they could not put aside their work differences, which were purely of a philosophical nature, sufficiently long to give HUMAN support to a family in grief?
What does that tell us about the pilot group as people, instead of as pilots?
KInd regards,
TheNightOwl.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"The same old arguments are not going to be regurgitated again and again on PPRuNe."
Here, here!! Some of us are getting sore heads
By the same token, 16 years on, and the workplace in Australia is very different to that which existed back in 1989.
For clarification, Richard Kranium, the b#st#rds my uncle referred to were the likes of Abeles, Murdoch & Macmahon.
"Why did you join Ansett Mr M if you hated them so much"?
I offered them my services for what I believed was market value, at the time.
They got a good deal!!
TNO, I'm not about to pass any judgement on the QF pilots' decision.
"What does that tell us about the pilot group as people, instead of as pilots?"
It tells me a couple of things, (i) pilots can be just as bloody-minded as any other group of employees when they know that one of their own has tried to sabotage the group, (ii) that that particular pilot openly showed he didn't wish to be part of "the whole", by his actions, and that he had that wish granted.
My uncle told me that there was a feeling of sympathy for the man, however WHY would they wish to support someone who had attempted to destroy their livelihoods?
He was no longer their friend.
Pilots are people, and have the same emotions as any other person, regardless of their line of work.
In reality, most pilots have had other jobs besides flying
in my case, I've worked in the sinter plant of BHP at Newcastle as a labourer; as a council worker, pushing a lawn mower; as a shop assistant, selling (and laying) floor coverings and furniture; a brickie's labourer; and as a waiter and relief restaurant manager..........all to fund my flying!
Getting to the positions pilots do takes a lot of hard work - why SHOULDN'T we guard those positions, that took so much to achieve, as strenuously as we need to!
Here, here!! Some of us are getting sore heads
By the same token, 16 years on, and the workplace in Australia is very different to that which existed back in 1989.
For clarification, Richard Kranium, the b#st#rds my uncle referred to were the likes of Abeles, Murdoch & Macmahon.
"Why did you join Ansett Mr M if you hated them so much"?
I offered them my services for what I believed was market value, at the time.
They got a good deal!!
TNO, I'm not about to pass any judgement on the QF pilots' decision.
"What does that tell us about the pilot group as people, instead of as pilots?"
It tells me a couple of things, (i) pilots can be just as bloody-minded as any other group of employees when they know that one of their own has tried to sabotage the group, (ii) that that particular pilot openly showed he didn't wish to be part of "the whole", by his actions, and that he had that wish granted.
My uncle told me that there was a feeling of sympathy for the man, however WHY would they wish to support someone who had attempted to destroy their livelihoods?
He was no longer their friend.
Pilots are people, and have the same emotions as any other person, regardless of their line of work.
In reality, most pilots have had other jobs besides flying
in my case, I've worked in the sinter plant of BHP at Newcastle as a labourer; as a council worker, pushing a lawn mower; as a shop assistant, selling (and laying) floor coverings and furniture; a brickie's labourer; and as a waiter and relief restaurant manager..........all to fund my flying!Getting to the positions pilots do takes a lot of hard work - why SHOULDN'T we guard those positions, that took so much to achieve, as strenuously as we need to!
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Well it took a little time to stew on it Kaptin M and not wanting to waste time on me as my IQ was so outside the normal, you are not Robinson Caruso in doing all sorts of jobs to get your flying experience, I could almost hear the violins playing...NOW!!! I know where your union mentality comes from....Newcastle!!...I should have known, yet I come from a similar background and can't understand that thinking at all.
Its amazing how its only you and your ilk did all the hard yards, how conceited you are, you offered your services to Ansett...your arogance is breathtaking...wow...I bet you think Ansett should have thanked their lucky stars and worshiped the tarmac you walked on when you joined, finally god has arrived.
But of course no one else is allowed to offer their service once you and your kind have decided to take their bat and ball and left....you see Kaptin M, no one is irreplaceable, others saw an opportunity knocking and took it, as I said before, opportunities are never lost they are just taken up by someone else.
So you and your ilk must blame someone else for stuffing up your lives, naturally your kind aren't intelligent enough to look in the mirror, so blame is pointed at people that had nothing to do with the '89 saga, the easy targets as I call it....and now you and your kind actively finger people that want new opportunities in other companies around the world where your lot sit and deny jobs to innocent people.
Its amazing how there is a rule you and your lot and rule for others, how your lot try to came across as the Aussie Battlers, yet step on others when it suits you, your last paragraph shows what kind of people you are. So getting to the position as pilots takes a lot of hard work you say, so why did you not respect the very company that gave you that opportunity, where did you get the notion that this position was your god given right. Your last post says it all about your lot.
Its amazing how its only you and your ilk did all the hard yards, how conceited you are, you offered your services to Ansett...your arogance is breathtaking...wow...I bet you think Ansett should have thanked their lucky stars and worshiped the tarmac you walked on when you joined, finally god has arrived.
But of course no one else is allowed to offer their service once you and your kind have decided to take their bat and ball and left....you see Kaptin M, no one is irreplaceable, others saw an opportunity knocking and took it, as I said before, opportunities are never lost they are just taken up by someone else.
So you and your ilk must blame someone else for stuffing up your lives, naturally your kind aren't intelligent enough to look in the mirror, so blame is pointed at people that had nothing to do with the '89 saga, the easy targets as I call it....and now you and your kind actively finger people that want new opportunities in other companies around the world where your lot sit and deny jobs to innocent people.
Its amazing how there is a rule you and your lot and rule for others, how your lot try to came across as the Aussie Battlers, yet step on others when it suits you, your last paragraph shows what kind of people you are. So getting to the position as pilots takes a lot of hard work you say, so why did you not respect the very company that gave you that opportunity, where did you get the notion that this position was your god given right. Your last post says it all about your lot.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thank you HANOI you are quite correct with both observations. (Incidentally, there's an apostrophe after the 's' in "peoples" 
)
I have absolutely NO idea what you're on about, Richard - but then again do YOU??!!
So you (and your ilk) must blame someone else for stuffing up your lives?? Oops, there seems to be an echo in here.
(BTW, I didn't state which end of the IQ scale I thought you were outside).
)
you and your kind actively finger people that want new opportunities in other companies around the world where your lot sit and deny jobs to innocent people.
So you (and your ilk) must blame someone else for stuffing up your lives?? Oops, there seems to be an echo in here.
(BTW, I didn't state which end of the IQ scale I thought you were outside).
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OK. Just a quick time out and refresher for those who came in late.....
1989 - Greed drives large numbers of airline pilots to strike in attempt to extort Australian economy and major airlines into non realistic wage agreement. Pilots enjoy support of weak and dysfunctional union.
Pilots refuse to fly forcing airlines to employ non strikers and contract staff to fill vacant positions.
Contract pilots go on to enjoy careers in the country of their choice.
Strikers lose the battle, want their lost jobs back, can't find jobs in Australia, have to go live in third world countries flying for Bamboo Shoot Airlines and other backward operators on reduced pay and conditions.
2005 - Strikers still living in third world countries, still complaining that they were hard done by, still have not made peace with themselves about their mistake and still blame every other bastard for their ruined lives and clearly do not have the materials to build their bridge and GET OVER IT!
OK, resume discussion.
1989 - Greed drives large numbers of airline pilots to strike in attempt to extort Australian economy and major airlines into non realistic wage agreement. Pilots enjoy support of weak and dysfunctional union.
Pilots refuse to fly forcing airlines to employ non strikers and contract staff to fill vacant positions.
Contract pilots go on to enjoy careers in the country of their choice.
Strikers lose the battle, want their lost jobs back, can't find jobs in Australia, have to go live in third world countries flying for Bamboo Shoot Airlines and other backward operators on reduced pay and conditions.
2005 - Strikers still living in third world countries, still complaining that they were hard done by, still have not made peace with themselves about their mistake and still blame every other bastard for their ruined lives and clearly do not have the materials to build their bridge and GET OVER IT!
OK, resume discussion.
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Nah, this thread isn't going anywhere. No new evidence - just the same old rhetoric from all sides.
The original question has been answered. Thanks for all your contributions.
Woomera
The original question has been answered. Thanks for all your contributions.
Woomera
