Is CASA aware?
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Is CASA aware?
Due to the accelerated leave programme in place at QANTAS aircraft are leaving Sydney devoid of management flight attendants.This means that no one has access to the physicians kit or defibrillator.In some cases this has meant that some mandatory safety p.a s have not been made.
Safety of passengers again appears to come second at Qantas.Second to Dixon's bonuses and cost cutting.
SOMEONE NEEDS TO STOP THIS MAN BEFORE HE HURTS SOMEBODY!
Safety of passengers again appears to come second at Qantas.Second to Dixon's bonuses and cost cutting.
SOMEONE NEEDS TO STOP THIS MAN BEFORE HE HURTS SOMEBODY!
Last edited by captainrats; 21st Feb 2005 at 05:04.
If the skipper is aware that a demo is not able to be performed etc, me thinks he would be obligated to remain at the gate right?
Aren't defibs and doc kits a company 'option' - ie not mandated by regulation?... Don't imagine CASA would be concerned, however the consciences of the other crew members should be.
Aren't defibs and doc kits a company 'option' - ie not mandated by regulation?... Don't imagine CASA would be concerned, however the consciences of the other crew members should be.
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Mandated
I believe they are mandated.The only person(s) able to access these items are the onboard mangers.These aircraft have been leaving without even the Captain having keys to access them should they be required.Someone has obviously done the risk analysis regarding litigation(?)
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F/A's operating as CSM's are normally given a set of keys, and a manual with the P.A's from the Admin Office staff. However if more than one flt there may not be any "spares" for them. It happens at both Shorthaul and Longhaul, and has done for a long time but is especially common at the moment.
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captainrats,
I think you are mistaken, they are not mandatory. If they were how can they be allowed to depart with a flat battery, which sometimes happens.
And rumour has it that British Airways are changing all there packs following a check that revealed they were pretty well all flat.
It is nice to have extra that some airlines offer and yes Qantas were the pioneers, but that was yesterday.
I think you are mistaken, they are not mandatory. If they were how can they be allowed to depart with a flat battery, which sometimes happens.
And rumour has it that British Airways are changing all there packs following a check that revealed they were pretty well all flat.
It is nice to have extra that some airlines offer and yes Qantas were the pioneers, but that was yesterday.
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Defibrillators
My understanding is that this equipment is checked by the CSM before departure.To my knowledge and after questioning several onboard managers,I am assured they are never flat.The issue here however appears to be access.If aircraft are leaving with no keys and no crew trained in their use...then I would suggest you have a problem.If the crew depart Sydney with no keys and no access, for a 10 day trip they are handling approximately 1200 passengers(4 Sectors).If this is an LHR pattern any one of 30% of the pax may(and I emphasize may)need this equipment.If for example you travel to/from the States and have a passenger that has a cardiac episode and this equipment is not available expect to have your testicles put in a blender.Metaphorically speaking of course.
There appears to be no system/protocol inplace for this contingency.Remember the swiss cheese principle...this a perfect example.
I have contacted CASA, for clarification, regarding this matter.
www.casa.gov.au
There appears to be no system/protocol inplace for this contingency.Remember the swiss cheese principle...this a perfect example.
I have contacted CASA, for clarification, regarding this matter.
www.casa.gov.au
Last edited by Captain.Q; 21st Feb 2005 at 10:39.
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Blueloo..should be?
The operative two words here are :"should be".That does not mean: "will be".
I rang the boys and girls behind the service desk on QCC1.... and they are not aware of them being on any aircraft.
I rang the boys and girls behind the service desk on QCC1.... and they are not aware of them being on any aircraft.
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Captain Q
Let me clear up your understanding.
http://rrp.casa.gov.au/nprm/nprm0211osB.pdf
Air Transport Operations – Large
Aeroplanes – CASR Part 121A
121A.055 Information on emergency and survival equipment carried
(1) An operator must ensure that it keeps available, for immediate communication
to rescue coordination centres, information on the emergency and survival
equipment carried on board each of its aeroplanes.
(2) The information must include, as applicable, the number, colour and type of
life-rafts and pyrotechnics, details of emergency medical supplies, water
supplies and the type and frequencies of emergency portable radio equipment.
Appendix 1 to regulation 121A.1005 (Initial training)
Medical aspects and first aid
(6) An operator must ensure that medical and first aid training includes instruction
in:
(a) first aid and the use of first-aid kits; and
(b) the operator’s policy concerning the use of any specialist emergency
medical equipment carried (for example, auto-defibrillators); and
(c) first aid associated with survival training and appropriate hygiene; and
(d) the physiological effects of flying, with particular emphasis
So Qantas can decide when, where and who uses the equipment on board as it is clearly not mandatory.
And the CSM only checks the fitment of the defibulator not its battery.
Let me clear up your understanding.
http://rrp.casa.gov.au/nprm/nprm0211osB.pdf
Air Transport Operations – Large
Aeroplanes – CASR Part 121A
121A.055 Information on emergency and survival equipment carried
(1) An operator must ensure that it keeps available, for immediate communication
to rescue coordination centres, information on the emergency and survival
equipment carried on board each of its aeroplanes.
(2) The information must include, as applicable, the number, colour and type of
life-rafts and pyrotechnics, details of emergency medical supplies, water
supplies and the type and frequencies of emergency portable radio equipment.
Appendix 1 to regulation 121A.1005 (Initial training)
Medical aspects and first aid
(6) An operator must ensure that medical and first aid training includes instruction
in:
(a) first aid and the use of first-aid kits; and
(b) the operator’s policy concerning the use of any specialist emergency
medical equipment carried (for example, auto-defibrillators); and
(c) first aid associated with survival training and appropriate hygiene; and
(d) the physiological effects of flying, with particular emphasis
So Qantas can decide when, where and who uses the equipment on board as it is clearly not mandatory.
And the CSM only checks the fitment of the defibulator not its battery.
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Well it may have changed since the airbus and fleet wide adoption of this particular thing.... Keys used to be contained in it, but I suspect not now.
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Orville ..Thank You
Orville thank you for your fine work.
I will however reiterate that my primary concern is access to this equipment and its use.As you rightly point out this is at the discretion of the Airline.If there are no operators(the onboard managers are the only crew trained)and there are no keys....well if there is an episode could there then be a case for criminal negligence if indeed the passenger dies?
This discussion(for me) is an information gathering exercise so that should an incident arise I am aware of the possible circumstances/outcomes.
I will however reiterate that my primary concern is access to this equipment and its use.As you rightly point out this is at the discretion of the Airline.If there are no operators(the onboard managers are the only crew trained)and there are no keys....well if there is an episode could there then be a case for criminal negligence if indeed the passenger dies?
This discussion(for me) is an information gathering exercise so that should an incident arise I am aware of the possible circumstances/outcomes.
Last edited by Captain.Q; 21st Feb 2005 at 10:45.
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Captain Q.
I acknowledge your thirst for information, and to further assist you I can offer an insight into the Minimum Equipment LIst (MEL's) that the pilot uses to determine the a/c serviceability legally.
MEL 25-64-2 ..... Installed ..... Required
1. First aid kit ........4 .......... 3
2. Physicians Kit ..... 1 ......... 0
3. Defibrillator ...... 1 ......... 0
From what you can see a minimum of three first aid kits are mandatory, however only one kit is required to have been unused, the other two can have been used and not be full.
Legally I also recall from my training in first aid that we were told that there has never been a legal precedence set to prosecute someone for not offering medical assistance, whether trained or untrained.
As a first aider you would have been trained to keep the vitals going of any patient until appropriate medical help arrives, and I would suggest that this would still be the case with or without a defibrillator.
Good luck in your quest.
I acknowledge your thirst for information, and to further assist you I can offer an insight into the Minimum Equipment LIst (MEL's) that the pilot uses to determine the a/c serviceability legally.
MEL 25-64-2 ..... Installed ..... Required
1. First aid kit ........4 .......... 3
2. Physicians Kit ..... 1 ......... 0
3. Defibrillator ...... 1 ......... 0
From what you can see a minimum of three first aid kits are mandatory, however only one kit is required to have been unused, the other two can have been used and not be full.
Legally I also recall from my training in first aid that we were told that there has never been a legal precedence set to prosecute someone for not offering medical assistance, whether trained or untrained.
As a first aider you would have been trained to keep the vitals going of any patient until appropriate medical help arrives, and I would suggest that this would still be the case with or without a defibrillator.
Good luck in your quest.
