Boeing seeks feedback from Qantas
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boeing seeks feedback from Qantas
AAP
Boeing seeks feedback from Qantas
January 31, 2005 - 3:09PM
US aircraft maker Boeing Co said it was seeking feedback from Qantas Airways Ltd on a stretched model of the well known 747 long haul aircraft - its answer to the double decker Airbus 380 superjumbo.
Even so, the company continued to showcase its new generation 300 seat 787 aircraft to Qantas and would be "thrilled" if the carrier signed up to the program, Boeing vice president of 787 sales John Feren said.
"Their fleet studies are beginning to consider what the alternatives are," said Mr Feren, who was meeting Qantas executives in Sydney.
"They have (also) expressed an interest to us in the Boeing 777-300ER and we have just mentioned this airplane to them, 747 Advanced.
"It's fair to say that Qantas is collecting data and is analysing the situation."
The Boeing 747 Advanced can carry up to 500 passengers, uses the same engine and cockpit technology as the 787 and can fly more than 14,816 kilometres.
The Airbus A380 can carry up to 550 passengers and has a range of 14,800 kilometres.
"We're having conversations with airline customers, we're putting together what we think is a concept that we're going to take to the market place and we will see what feedback we get," Mr Feren told journalists here.
Qantas has ordered 12 A380s - the aircraft was launched a amid much fanfare last month in France - it intends to use on long haul routes from Australia to Los Angeles.
Boeing last week announced it now had a total of 186 orders for the new 787 Dreamliner, formerly known as the 7E7.
The name was finalised after the company received orders from the People's Republic of China for 60 of the planes.
In many Asian cultures the number eight represents good luck and prosperity.
Boeing will deliver the planes to six carriers - Air China, China Eastern Airlines, Hainan Airlines, Shanghai Airlines and Xiamen Airlines - in time for the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing.
Mr Feren said while Boeing was behind on its order targets for the 787 - it had aimed to reach 200 planes by the end of 2004 - he expected more orders to be confirmed in the near future.
"Being behind a very ambitious target is not a great disappointment," he said.
"We are pleased with what we have got and we expect to have many more orders during the course of 2005."
Mr Feren said Boeing had not experienced any negative impact on sale of the 787 due to fanfare surrounding the A380.
"While it's a tremendous industrial accomplishment that can be viewed and acknowledged, it has not appreciably changed the fact that people want to fly point to point, people want to avoid major hubs where possible," he said.
"We have had debates with Airbus about what the size of the 550 seat market is.
"But I don't think anyone believes there are more 550 seat airplanes to be sold than 200-300 seat airplane."
Boeing is pitching the tri-class 787, its first new model in 15 years, as a breakthrough in leaner and lighter aircraft engineering.
It is counting on strong demand for aircraft in the Asia Pacific region to drive orders of the 787, followed by the Middle East, then Europe, Africa, South America and North America.
"It is our long term view that 70 per cent of sales will be for growth and 30 per cent for replacement," Mr Feren said.
© 2005 AAP
Brought
=========================================
Boeing seeks feedback from Qantas
January 31, 2005 - 3:09PM
US aircraft maker Boeing Co said it was seeking feedback from Qantas Airways Ltd on a stretched model of the well known 747 long haul aircraft - its answer to the double decker Airbus 380 superjumbo.
Even so, the company continued to showcase its new generation 300 seat 787 aircraft to Qantas and would be "thrilled" if the carrier signed up to the program, Boeing vice president of 787 sales John Feren said.
"Their fleet studies are beginning to consider what the alternatives are," said Mr Feren, who was meeting Qantas executives in Sydney.
"They have (also) expressed an interest to us in the Boeing 777-300ER and we have just mentioned this airplane to them, 747 Advanced.
"It's fair to say that Qantas is collecting data and is analysing the situation."
The Boeing 747 Advanced can carry up to 500 passengers, uses the same engine and cockpit technology as the 787 and can fly more than 14,816 kilometres.
The Airbus A380 can carry up to 550 passengers and has a range of 14,800 kilometres.
"We're having conversations with airline customers, we're putting together what we think is a concept that we're going to take to the market place and we will see what feedback we get," Mr Feren told journalists here.
Qantas has ordered 12 A380s - the aircraft was launched a amid much fanfare last month in France - it intends to use on long haul routes from Australia to Los Angeles.
Boeing last week announced it now had a total of 186 orders for the new 787 Dreamliner, formerly known as the 7E7.
The name was finalised after the company received orders from the People's Republic of China for 60 of the planes.
In many Asian cultures the number eight represents good luck and prosperity.
Boeing will deliver the planes to six carriers - Air China, China Eastern Airlines, Hainan Airlines, Shanghai Airlines and Xiamen Airlines - in time for the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing.
Mr Feren said while Boeing was behind on its order targets for the 787 - it had aimed to reach 200 planes by the end of 2004 - he expected more orders to be confirmed in the near future.
"Being behind a very ambitious target is not a great disappointment," he said.
"We are pleased with what we have got and we expect to have many more orders during the course of 2005."
Mr Feren said Boeing had not experienced any negative impact on sale of the 787 due to fanfare surrounding the A380.
"While it's a tremendous industrial accomplishment that can be viewed and acknowledged, it has not appreciably changed the fact that people want to fly point to point, people want to avoid major hubs where possible," he said.
"We have had debates with Airbus about what the size of the 550 seat market is.
"But I don't think anyone believes there are more 550 seat airplanes to be sold than 200-300 seat airplane."
Boeing is pitching the tri-class 787, its first new model in 15 years, as a breakthrough in leaner and lighter aircraft engineering.
It is counting on strong demand for aircraft in the Asia Pacific region to drive orders of the 787, followed by the Middle East, then Europe, Africa, South America and North America.
"It is our long term view that 70 per cent of sales will be for growth and 30 per cent for replacement," Mr Feren said.
© 2005 AAP
Brought
=========================================
As the Qantas Board is about to approve an order for 20 B777's (with 20 options), it would not surprise me to see an order for B787's added on (at a discount price) as was done by Air NZ. A large number of the B767-300's will need to be replaced in the 2009-2014 timeframe. Looks like a lot of promotion and employment opportunities coming up.
Not sure about the prospect of the B747 Advanced as QF doesn't want to purchase "old technology" aeroplanes. Sure the wing and engines would be new technology but would they be carrying an old technology fuselage which would result in higher seat-mile costs as compared with the A380.
Not sure about the prospect of the B747 Advanced as QF doesn't want to purchase "old technology" aeroplanes. Sure the wing and engines would be new technology but would they be carrying an old technology fuselage which would result in higher seat-mile costs as compared with the A380.
Last edited by Going Boeing; 1st Feb 2005 at 07:32.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Back again.
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I could be allowed some feedback for consideration by Qantas management to pass onto Boeing...
The ideal aircraft would have at least three decks in a sort of C130 spartan, military-type arrangement. Passengers pick up a cut lunch and a half full bottle of drink prior to being herded, err, I'm mean 'boarding' from the rear. (Empty drink bottles can be used for waste liquid later in flight.) Passengers are handed a small leaflet 30 days in advance of the flight measuring 15cm X 5cm with 3000 words in 3 point font including a buried sentence explaining that all baggage must be under 10kg and will be used for seating. Aircraft has no engines to save on LAME's, fuel and maintenance. The nice 747, designated only for first and business class passengers taxies obtrusively to the front of the aircraft. A LAME hooks on the tow rope and the economy passengers are towed to max. altitude while a couple of burly passengers are volunteered to wind up the undercarriage. The rope is released, the 747 continues to its destination in style and comfort and economy class passengers are glided to their destination by the skillful, pruney hands of an ultra keen barman and would-be pilot who has just finished washing the aircraft on his monthly day off.
The ideal aircraft would have at least three decks in a sort of C130 spartan, military-type arrangement. Passengers pick up a cut lunch and a half full bottle of drink prior to being herded, err, I'm mean 'boarding' from the rear. (Empty drink bottles can be used for waste liquid later in flight.) Passengers are handed a small leaflet 30 days in advance of the flight measuring 15cm X 5cm with 3000 words in 3 point font including a buried sentence explaining that all baggage must be under 10kg and will be used for seating. Aircraft has no engines to save on LAME's, fuel and maintenance. The nice 747, designated only for first and business class passengers taxies obtrusively to the front of the aircraft. A LAME hooks on the tow rope and the economy passengers are towed to max. altitude while a couple of burly passengers are volunteered to wind up the undercarriage. The rope is released, the 747 continues to its destination in style and comfort and economy class passengers are glided to their destination by the skillful, pruney hands of an ultra keen barman and would-be pilot who has just finished washing the aircraft on his monthly day off.
Nunc est bibendum
As the Qantas Board is about to approve an order for 20 B777's (with 20 options), it would not surprise me to see an order for B787's added on (at a discount price).
The new spin to that rumour which I heard the other night is that it won't be announced in May but considerably earlier (February to March). This is so the system can do proper planning for training of crews, budgets, etc.
I just hope it comes true! It will be interesting to see how many airframes will be expansion flying and how many will be replacement. Expansion is great for promotion and employment! Decisions, decisions. 744 F/O or 777 F/O or a possible 767 command created by residuals!
Keg
My two cents worth - take the 767 command as we both know it's a terrific aircraft to fly and you've got many years ahead of you to fly the heavier metal. GB
My two cents worth - take the 767 command as we both know it's a terrific aircraft to fly and you've got many years ahead of you to fly the heavier metal. GB
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
For what it's worth, Keg, I agree with Going Boeing - grab that command with both hands.
If the worst comes to the worst, you'll be a Captain with airline jet command time on the dole....sorry, looking & qualiified.
As an F/O, you can have 100,000 hours experience on 777's, 744's, A380's & the Space Shuttle - but it WON'T get you a command job then, nor down the track.
Sad but true, F/O time is about as useful as sand on the beach, outside your own company.
If the worst comes to the worst, you'll be a Captain with airline jet command time on the dole....sorry, looking & qualiified.
As an F/O, you can have 100,000 hours experience on 777's, 744's, A380's & the Space Shuttle - but it WON'T get you a command job then, nor down the track.
Sad but true, F/O time is about as useful as sand on the beach, outside your own company.
Evertonian
There's another whisper that the A320's are going to QF mainline!!!
Jet* will be getting a great deal on IL76's WITH crews!!! Apparently, the Jet* punters have been "pampered" enough!
Don't tell 'em you heard it from me though.
Jet* will be getting a great deal on IL76's WITH crews!!! Apparently, the Jet* punters have been "pampered" enough!
Don't tell 'em you heard it from me though.
Nunc est bibendum
GB, Kap M, it isn't a hard choice really. I've got Captain on everything high on the bid so if the slot gets down to my numbers and the powers that be reckon I'm half a shot then thats what it'll be.
As an aside to the main discussion though, the rumours and musings over the last couple of days suggest the QF fleet could end up like this:
A380 doing LHR and LAX
744s to phase out over time to be replaced by the 777 (or equivalent Airbus types)
787s in both configurations for both the high end domestic stuff and the thin international stuff
738s for the rest of domestic
A330s to go to Australian!
As an aside to the main discussion though, the rumours and musings over the last couple of days suggest the QF fleet could end up like this:
A380 doing LHR and LAX
744s to phase out over time to be replaced by the 777 (or equivalent Airbus types)
787s in both configurations for both the high end domestic stuff and the thin international stuff
738s for the rest of domestic
A330s to go to Australian!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So Keg,
do QF have a preference for the 773ER over the 346?? To me it seems they probably do.
Is the 350 considered too large to compete with the 787 on the domestic trunk shuttles?
I really think a 738,787,773ER/346,380 fleet seems pretty balanced. Don't know whether QF are prepared to give all the new order to Boeing or go with a split order.
The 330s to AO also sounds like a fair solution.
do QF have a preference for the 773ER over the 346?? To me it seems they probably do.
Is the 350 considered too large to compete with the 787 on the domestic trunk shuttles?
I really think a 738,787,773ER/346,380 fleet seems pretty balanced. Don't know whether QF are prepared to give all the new order to Boeing or go with a split order.
The 330s to AO also sounds like a fair solution.
Do the oldest 744s have more hours on them than the classics? (The 743s were leased out for a while and also parked at AVV last year).
-OJA is 17 years old this year so can't be that far off retirement.
-OJA is 17 years old this year so can't be that far off retirement.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Buckshot,
Didn't OJA arrive in 1989 (sorry for being pedantic, it's only a year out!)
Anyway...
The 777 rumour seems to have also filtered through a couple of industries which would be required to support the intro of a new type... one story is that a troubled carrier with some prod line slots was willing to deal on very attractive terms.
But... what about ETOPS to (say) JNB or EZE? SYD-JNB is fine in a 2-class 744, but could it support an A380? If not, could a 777 do the ETOPS?
I'd love to see 777s, but there is some logic to a 320/330/340/380 fleet, given that the infrastructure's already there for three of those types. The 777 deal would need to be VERY attractive.
Didn't OJA arrive in 1989 (sorry for being pedantic, it's only a year out!)
Anyway...
The 777 rumour seems to have also filtered through a couple of industries which would be required to support the intro of a new type... one story is that a troubled carrier with some prod line slots was willing to deal on very attractive terms.
But... what about ETOPS to (say) JNB or EZE? SYD-JNB is fine in a 2-class 744, but could it support an A380? If not, could a 777 do the ETOPS?
I'd love to see 777s, but there is some logic to a 320/330/340/380 fleet, given that the infrastructure's already there for three of those types. The 777 deal would need to be VERY attractive.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QF have just spent $100 million AUD refitting the A330s with Skybeds so it does make sense {in a QF management kind of way} to now re-convert them to single class Y/C and transfer to AO.
Evertonian
If I recall correctly, the A300 shat all over the 767 for freight carrying ability and, seeing the A330 is loosely based on the A300 design, I'd say the same is true. Just take the LD-3 capabilities!
Nunc est bibendum
Biscuit, 767 is indeed back on MEL-NRT. I don't know if that is due to our superior cargo carrying capacity or not! 
I think it is only until the end of '05 or thereabouts. Perhaps we will hand it over to the 777 early next year!
I think it is only until the end of '05 or thereabouts. Perhaps we will hand it over to the 777 early next year!
