How low could a low cost go?
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How low could a low cost go?
Given the rise in low cost airlines and the never ending quest of airline management to invent new ways of saving money, I started thinking just how low could they go.
A few ideas:
1) Dumb down as many area's as possible, that way you can get most staff on minimum wages. (already in place)
2) Cut maintenence to a minimum, carry as many MEL's as possible for as long as possible. (already happens)
3) Seeing as pilots are so keen to pay for their endorsements, medicals, publications etc, get them to pay for thier sims and other training eg emergency procedures etc. (soon!)
4) Do away with aircraft cleaning (Almost there)
5) Do away with security and screening, or get the F/A's, pilots and ground staff to do it. (can't be to far off)
Just a few ideas. anymore?
A few ideas:
1) Dumb down as many area's as possible, that way you can get most staff on minimum wages. (already in place)
2) Cut maintenence to a minimum, carry as many MEL's as possible for as long as possible. (already happens)
3) Seeing as pilots are so keen to pay for their endorsements, medicals, publications etc, get them to pay for thier sims and other training eg emergency procedures etc. (soon!)
4) Do away with aircraft cleaning (Almost there)
5) Do away with security and screening, or get the F/A's, pilots and ground staff to do it. (can't be to far off)
Just a few ideas. anymore?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Why pay pilots at all? Charge THEM! (PARC already operate some such scheme for 747 ab initios)
Regardless of the equipment you're using, there will always be pilots who will want experience on THAT type, on their way to achieving their "dream".
As a matter of fact, why not do the same with F/A's and some of the ground staff?
Work experience.
Make every aspect of the interview & "trial employment period" revenue productive - charge for the interviews.....at least 2, to keep the cash flow going. Charge for the compulsory uniforms, charge for Company ID.
As a matter of fact, there was posting on a thread on the main R&N forum that I'll just grab...
You should consider yourselves lucky that you are gainfully employed and let your employers continue to run their airline, their way.
The contract you are all working under and accepted with “eyes wide open” is one of the best contract positions available.
KE is heaven compared to most other Asian/Pacific Rim carriers so hang on to your positions and adhere to your contractual obligations.
This says it all, I think!
Regardless of the equipment you're using, there will always be pilots who will want experience on THAT type, on their way to achieving their "dream".
As a matter of fact, why not do the same with F/A's and some of the ground staff?
Work experience.
Make every aspect of the interview & "trial employment period" revenue productive - charge for the interviews.....at least 2, to keep the cash flow going. Charge for the compulsory uniforms, charge for Company ID.
As a matter of fact, there was posting on a thread on the main R&N forum that I'll just grab...
You should consider yourselves lucky that you are gainfully employed and let your employers continue to run their airline, their way.
The contract you are all working under and accepted with “eyes wide open” is one of the best contract positions available.
KE is heaven compared to most other Asian/Pacific Rim carriers so hang on to your positions and adhere to your contractual obligations.
This says it all, I think!
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Here's an idea.
Install G/A style tacho's in all low cost airlines' jet aircraft. At the termination of the flight; armed operations staff will take the hourly reading. Then for each minute above the scheduled block time calculated at the appropriate a/c hourly rate; deduct this amount from Pilots salary.
Install G/A style tacho's in all low cost airlines' jet aircraft. At the termination of the flight; armed operations staff will take the hourly reading. Then for each minute above the scheduled block time calculated at the appropriate a/c hourly rate; deduct this amount from Pilots salary.
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Great idea Kap.
If the QF beanies read this thread I'm sure they will be kicking themselves they hadn't thought of this first!
Maybe we could head them off at the pass and set up a company to supply pilots to Qantas and pay Qantas say 50K a year..er.... for the privilege of using their A/C. The CP is keen to sell Sim time so he will jump at this one for sure. You know, making Flt Ops a profit centre and all. Good for the bonus.
Then we advertise for wannabes and UGAL's to pay us say $100K a year for the privilege! Of course, they will need to pay for their endorsement too and anything else we can sting them for. We can't just give these valuable jet hours away!
Gotta be worth a shot. Form an orderly queue please!
If the QF beanies read this thread I'm sure they will be kicking themselves they hadn't thought of this first!
Maybe we could head them off at the pass and set up a company to supply pilots to Qantas and pay Qantas say 50K a year..er.... for the privilege of using their A/C. The CP is keen to sell Sim time so he will jump at this one for sure. You know, making Flt Ops a profit centre and all. Good for the bonus.
Then we advertise for wannabes and UGAL's to pay us say $100K a year for the privilege! Of course, they will need to pay for their endorsement too and anything else we can sting them for. We can't just give these valuable jet hours away!
Gotta be worth a shot. Form an orderly queue please!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Well the pilots won' t be Chinese.
China already has a shortage of pilots, which is becoming more evident as current airlines in that country try to expand, and new ones start.
Expat pilot salaries in China have almost tripled in the past 2 or 3 years, as Chinese airlines attempt to attract more pilots, and realise that MOST professionals DON'T offer their services for a pittance, just to "gain experience"
The Chinese government has also recently mandated that Chinese airlines will not be ALLOWED to order new aircraft, unless they can prove they have the crews for them.
Many experienced Asian airlines pilots (MAS, SQ, Garuda) are leaving their established careers in the airlines of their birth countries, for higher remunerated positions with other carriers.
So although we're being squeezed at the top, the lower base salaries are rising considerably.
China already has a shortage of pilots, which is becoming more evident as current airlines in that country try to expand, and new ones start.
Expat pilot salaries in China have almost tripled in the past 2 or 3 years, as Chinese airlines attempt to attract more pilots, and realise that MOST professionals DON'T offer their services for a pittance, just to "gain experience"
The Chinese government has also recently mandated that Chinese airlines will not be ALLOWED to order new aircraft, unless they can prove they have the crews for them.
Many experienced Asian airlines pilots (MAS, SQ, Garuda) are leaving their established careers in the airlines of their birth countries, for higher remunerated positions with other carriers.
So although we're being squeezed at the top, the lower base salaries are rising considerably.
Why don't we have the passengers tip us like other service staff such as waiters and porters. Once they get used to the system management could further reduce our salaries as we should be able to live on tips like service staff in the USA who are paid peanuts and demand gratuaties from customers.
At the end of the flight the Captain could stand at the door with his hat in his hand to collect tips, which could then be divided up amongst the crew.
Suggest +/- 10% of the $49.99 Perth - Sydney fare.
At the end of the flight the Captain could stand at the door with his hat in his hand to collect tips, which could then be divided up amongst the crew.
Suggest +/- 10% of the $49.99 Perth - Sydney fare.
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At the end of the flight the Captain could stand at the door with his hat in his hand to collect tips, which could then be divided up amongst the crew.
Sprucegoose
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What?
You mean you guys are'nt already getting tips?
You must be doing something wrong!!
Cheers, HH.
You mean you guys are'nt already getting tips?
You must be doing something wrong!!
Cheers, HH.
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It's good to have a laugh about the antics of LCC's but on a more serious note, I guess we have to start to wonder what the overall effect it is having on the industry.
I couldn't imagine an endorsement done on the absolute cheap would be as good as an endorsement done inhouse. I'm guessing that if they are trying to save money and dumb down every department that safety would be treated any differently.
For me, I'm not prepared to put my family onto an aircraft operated by LCC. Sure, it might cost a bit more but you get what you pay for!
I couldn't imagine an endorsement done on the absolute cheap would be as good as an endorsement done inhouse. I'm guessing that if they are trying to save money and dumb down every department that safety would be treated any differently.
For me, I'm not prepared to put my family onto an aircraft operated by LCC. Sure, it might cost a bit more but you get what you pay for!
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But how to keep morale high under such conditions?
I think one way to keep the morale up is to placard John Magee's "...on laughter-silvered wings" on the cockpit door so if ever in doubt a quick over the shoulder glance will return that love, devotion and feeling we all get when slipping the bonds.
I think one way to keep the morale up is to placard John Magee's "...on laughter-silvered wings" on the cockpit door so if ever in doubt a quick over the shoulder glance will return that love, devotion and feeling we all get when slipping the bonds.
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I couldn't imagine an endorsement done on the absolute cheap would be as good as an endorsement done inhouse. I'm guessing that if they are trying to save money and dumb down every department that safety would be treated any differently.
Then there's Dicko looking to save every cent he can. Do you really think the inhouse endorsement is going to be such a wonderful thing, when management is trying to put the screws on EVERYTHING including the "wonderful" inhouse endorsement?
I have plenty of mates of who have recently completed SO training in OZ and are the first to admit they have no idea about the type they are flying. My point is..... Big deal... an endorsement is just like any other bit of training given to us.... A licence to learn! Nobody is going to be an ace, regardless of where you did your endorsement on your first line flight.
As for the rest of your dribble, I hope you and your family wont ever have to fly in Europe, The States or when Australia catches up..... Here in 3 or 4 years!.... Cos if you wont go LCC you'll be walking or catching the train
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And what about saving money in the air?How about they pay ATC providers less money and have the standards reduced accordingly?
-250ft LCC to LCC vertical standard. Still 1000ft between full paying customers and LCC.
-Aircraft on runway ahead 'almost' airborne or vacated.
-1NM radar standard in the TMA, 2NM enroute.
-5 minutes before time of passing enroute with no radar
-introduction of 'wouldn't hit in a pink fit' and 'big sky theory' standards
The list could go on.......
Cheers,
NFR.
-250ft LCC to LCC vertical standard. Still 1000ft between full paying customers and LCC.
-Aircraft on runway ahead 'almost' airborne or vacated.
-1NM radar standard in the TMA, 2NM enroute.
-5 minutes before time of passing enroute with no radar
-introduction of 'wouldn't hit in a pink fit' and 'big sky theory' standards
The list could go on.......
Cheers,
NFR.
