Jetstar Aust F/O's leave for EK / KA - Jetstar Schedule in Chaos
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: QCC3
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jetstar Aust F/O's leave for EK / KA - Jetstar Schedule in Chaos
Recently, QF mainline B737's have been doing some Jetstar flying due to non availability of crews.
I would point out from the outset that this situation is not the fault of the operational staff, all of whom are presently stretched to the max.
What has happened is that a number of F/O's have left for KA and EK. Given the fact they are only being paid 70K, this of course is not surprising.
The gap is partially being filled by the recruitment of nearly all of the current A330 sim instructors (ex AN, well known to many on this forum) as temp / DE capts.
This, in turn, has massively disrupted the A330 training program, causing significant delays to training programs and ergo significant increased costs.
Despite this, aircraft are being parked and servcies cancelled. These services are being flown by mainline B737's. Probably for 'free'.
I have heard (unreliably) that the chief pilot has been sacked and TJ is going to Mel to sort out the mess.
Good luck to all remaining JQ techies. Hopefully you can all find decent paying jobs soon.
"Everything that has a beginning has an end"
I would point out from the outset that this situation is not the fault of the operational staff, all of whom are presently stretched to the max.
What has happened is that a number of F/O's have left for KA and EK. Given the fact they are only being paid 70K, this of course is not surprising.
The gap is partially being filled by the recruitment of nearly all of the current A330 sim instructors (ex AN, well known to many on this forum) as temp / DE capts.
This, in turn, has massively disrupted the A330 training program, causing significant delays to training programs and ergo significant increased costs.
Despite this, aircraft are being parked and servcies cancelled. These services are being flown by mainline B737's. Probably for 'free'.
I have heard (unreliably) that the chief pilot has been sacked and TJ is going to Mel to sort out the mess.
Good luck to all remaining JQ techies. Hopefully you can all find decent paying jobs soon.
"Everything that has a beginning has an end"
JQ have been collapsing flights in to Nth QLD recently.
Cancelling Rocky's and sending them via Mackay, also combining PPP/MKY flights.
Not good, Quite often there is a JQ A320 parked at the freight terminal at MEL, when it should be flying
DJ737
The Roo Rooter
Cancelling Rocky's and sending them via Mackay, also combining PPP/MKY flights.
Not good, Quite often there is a JQ A320 parked at the freight terminal at MEL, when it should be flying
DJ737
The Roo Rooter
" TJ is going to MEL to sort out the mess ".
The veritable fuel on the fire! Why is it never TJ's mess? So much has happened on his watch, at various companies, yet he manages to come out smelling of roses.
One of lifes many curiosities!
I hate to harp on BUT it would be easier for Jetstar pilots to clean up their own pay and conditions mess before coming and adding to EK & KA's.
I understand both of those airline's pay and conditions under siege because there are so many Low Cost Pilots, from all over the world, trying to jump ship.
Add the woes of living in Dubai and Hong Kong - one an Islamic state in a trying time in history and the other is purported ( this weeks Time Magazine ) to take 18 months off your life and be the equivalent of smoking a dozen cigarettes a day.
Sorry Low Cost Pilots of Australia- there is no green grass in the sandpit and Hong Kong's green pastures probably have approval for a power station!
The veritable fuel on the fire! Why is it never TJ's mess? So much has happened on his watch, at various companies, yet he manages to come out smelling of roses.
One of lifes many curiosities!
I hate to harp on BUT it would be easier for Jetstar pilots to clean up their own pay and conditions mess before coming and adding to EK & KA's.
I understand both of those airline's pay and conditions under siege because there are so many Low Cost Pilots, from all over the world, trying to jump ship.
Add the woes of living in Dubai and Hong Kong - one an Islamic state in a trying time in history and the other is purported ( this weeks Time Magazine ) to take 18 months off your life and be the equivalent of smoking a dozen cigarettes a day.
Sorry Low Cost Pilots of Australia- there is no green grass in the sandpit and Hong Kong's green pastures probably have approval for a power station!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Down the rear end.
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And don't tell me DJ. In your next EBA discussions, you're going to suggest a pay cut. Can some of you Virgin blokes give this wally a clip over the ears please?
Are you bored with playing with your Thomas the Tank train set or something?
Are you bored with playing with your Thomas the Tank train set or something?
I think you will find it is more than pay.
NJS Capt's and F/O's are paid less than Impulse/Jetstar and they have never had problems retaining crews.
Still get a steady progression to other operators but as a general rule they/we are happy with our lot.
NJS Capt's and F/O's are paid less than Impulse/Jetstar and they have never had problems retaining crews.
Still get a steady progression to other operators but as a general rule they/we are happy with our lot.
RENURPP,
The RJ/146 is not exactly similar to anything else out there, not really getting hundreds of orders a year, being A320 endorsed you are a player on the most popular aircraft on the market these days, and a short CCQ from a 330, 340, 380.
NJS Capt's and F/O's are paid less than Impulse/Jetstar and they have never had problems retaining crews.
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Oh Damn, I thought it said F/A's!!
Not much of a story really, pilot's get experience and move on to greener pastures, it's been happening for years...
Now back to the F/A's...
Cheers, HH.
PS: Roo Rooter, the A-320 is parked there more from lack of bays, than lack of crews.
Not much of a story really, pilot's get experience and move on to greener pastures, it's been happening for years...
Now back to the F/A's...
Cheers, HH.
PS: Roo Rooter, the A-320 is parked there more from lack of bays, than lack of crews.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Boat
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't worry DJ737 doesn't work for DJ. He's only their best customer - http://www.virginflyer.net/
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not true that flights are getting cancelled due to lack of FO's.
In actual fact FO's on the A320 are doing quite low hours due to all the training going on. The airline won't collapse just because 2 FO's leave. Now will it ?
In actual fact FO's on the A320 are doing quite low hours due to all the training going on. The airline won't collapse just because 2 FO's leave. Now will it ?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 A320 are doing only a couple of flights a day due to lack of crew. 80 B717 flights cancelled due to lack of crew. All pilots are on 100 hours or more for the last 4 or 5 months but with 20 odd new crew starting soon things should get better.
Management just now fighting with pilots with a pilots name being picked out of a hat to kick for that day. Flown for some other airlines but have never seen such a distrust for management as this place. Last A320 captain to leave called in sick for a few days and on his last day didn't even ring or turn up and most of the 320 guys would like to do the same. We are all sick of the line you should be happy to have a job so shut up and take what ever we give you.
Management just now fighting with pilots with a pilots name being picked out of a hat to kick for that day. Flown for some other airlines but have never seen such a distrust for management as this place. Last A320 captain to leave called in sick for a few days and on his last day didn't even ring or turn up and most of the 320 guys would like to do the same. We are all sick of the line you should be happy to have a job so shut up and take what ever we give you.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, USA
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Overworked, underpaid, no trust of management?
Wow...but did you say I get to fly a shiny new jet. Where do I send my money?
Do I get a free gift with my Airbus rating?
Can I have a discount if I bring a friend?
Wow...but did you say I get to fly a shiny new jet. Where do I send my money?
Do I get a free gift with my Airbus rating?
Can I have a discount if I bring a friend?
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Here
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mystified...
I can't believe I was considering going to Jetstar.
Home base, new type, new planes, all in a new airline with plenty of growth potential. Certainly seemed attractive. Until I looked under the rock...
They have a single line seniority system which means that I can, and probably would, be replaced by a First Officer in two, maybe four years time. Huh?
There's the possibility the planned growth would not happen, or worse, the B717 would not end up doing the Q Link work under tender. This would assure my 'reverse training' to the RHS becomes a certainty after the two year LHS guarantee currently in place.
And they want me to pay for the rating. And start as a First Officer, because for me it's a new type. And I'd be paid me how much???
Oh, but the cost of the rating is paid via salary-sacrifice, not money up-front. This achieves tax advantages.
Uh, Jetstar, how about this?
Set Captains and First Officers up on minimum five year contracts with no downtraining possible. Ditch that antiquated, divisive seniority system. This is a new airline, after all.
Bond the non-rated, experienced Captains for five years. You get the costs of training back in spades, so forget that
salary-sacrifice, I-pay-for-the-rating nonsense.
Start Captains as Captains, not F/O's. Currently, there is the prospect of upgrading once First Officer Line Training is complete. No good. There's no guarantee.
And, ahem, would you mind putting this in writing please.
Virgin almost did it right, though it remains to be seen as to their longevity. They brought in DEC, of course, because they were needed in the new airline.
With time on type or otherwise, the experienced pilot who has proven through time to be a career pilot with measurable exposure and experience to airline flying is an undeniable asset, not an ego-tripper who demands to have what for many aspiring aviators is a dream. But it's a dream that takes a long time turning into reality.
If Qantas through Jetstar wants to regain the market share they so painfully lost to Virgin Blue, they have to attract the right assets to do the job; to "make it happen" if you like.
But if, as opposed to when, 'events' start becoming incidents, or incidents start become accidents, the savings Jetstar and Virgin Blue have made on reduced salaries and the avoidance of type-rating expenses will become insignificant.
Combined with the benign weather environment in Australia, the reliabilty of modern equipment has so far ensured the chain of event-incident-accident has not happened.
**** happens, which is why you can't avoid the occurence of events in the first place. But it is experience that prevents events becoming incidents, or incidents becoming accidents.
Jetstar has to reward experience.
Home base, new type, new planes, all in a new airline with plenty of growth potential. Certainly seemed attractive. Until I looked under the rock...
They have a single line seniority system which means that I can, and probably would, be replaced by a First Officer in two, maybe four years time. Huh?
There's the possibility the planned growth would not happen, or worse, the B717 would not end up doing the Q Link work under tender. This would assure my 'reverse training' to the RHS becomes a certainty after the two year LHS guarantee currently in place.
And they want me to pay for the rating. And start as a First Officer, because for me it's a new type. And I'd be paid me how much???
Oh, but the cost of the rating is paid via salary-sacrifice, not money up-front. This achieves tax advantages.
Uh, Jetstar, how about this?
Set Captains and First Officers up on minimum five year contracts with no downtraining possible. Ditch that antiquated, divisive seniority system. This is a new airline, after all.
Bond the non-rated, experienced Captains for five years. You get the costs of training back in spades, so forget that
salary-sacrifice, I-pay-for-the-rating nonsense.
Start Captains as Captains, not F/O's. Currently, there is the prospect of upgrading once First Officer Line Training is complete. No good. There's no guarantee.
And, ahem, would you mind putting this in writing please.
Virgin almost did it right, though it remains to be seen as to their longevity. They brought in DEC, of course, because they were needed in the new airline.
With time on type or otherwise, the experienced pilot who has proven through time to be a career pilot with measurable exposure and experience to airline flying is an undeniable asset, not an ego-tripper who demands to have what for many aspiring aviators is a dream. But it's a dream that takes a long time turning into reality.
If Qantas through Jetstar wants to regain the market share they so painfully lost to Virgin Blue, they have to attract the right assets to do the job; to "make it happen" if you like.
But if, as opposed to when, 'events' start becoming incidents, or incidents start become accidents, the savings Jetstar and Virgin Blue have made on reduced salaries and the avoidance of type-rating expenses will become insignificant.
Combined with the benign weather environment in Australia, the reliabilty of modern equipment has so far ensured the chain of event-incident-accident has not happened.
**** happens, which is why you can't avoid the occurence of events in the first place. But it is experience that prevents events becoming incidents, or incidents becoming accidents.
Jetstar has to reward experience.
Last edited by Life as a journey; 23rd Jan 2005 at 03:15.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: honkers
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
get with the program bird on this started about the first week in September 1989
We have spineless wimps who happily, selfishly and needlessly contribute to the erosion, nay, the destruction, of Terms and Conditions for professional pilots in their home country, possibly for years to come.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
golow -
I was on the cabin crew on said captain's last day. Although we were delayed as a result we were almost overjoyed that he had done it. It is a sad realisation that the 'screw 'em' approach is foremost amongst employees here. I wonder where we picked up that attitude from... 
Flown for some other airlines but have never seen such a distrust for management as this place. Last A320 captain to leave called in sick for a few days and on his last day didn't even ring or turn up
Evertonian
And whilst this is going on, GD is looking through his microscope to see how the experiment is going, and making notes for when he applies this to QF mainline....
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: PLANET EARTH
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey dont sweat to much Bird On the last group of pilots who sold out to get the "jet experience" in oz have had a less than envious success rate in "moving on" to better jobs.Some of the reported answers to basic questioning,operating policy, and common sense has been well, unbelievable to say the least.
Last edited by Iakklat; 23rd Jan 2005 at 11:50.