Emirates now leading foreign carrier at Melbourne Airport
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I can't believe that airlines are still using such an historic business model. That is getting market share at any cost. Emirates is pathetic - a full service carrier charging LCC airfares. This is the sort thing that should be regulated against. By this I mean that prior to getting approval to operated on a certain sector you can prove your operating costs and your expected revenue are realistic.
To allow foreign carriers to enter the market and operate in this fashion creates instability and company failures. The problem is that they are all guilty - Air New Zealand acted this way against Kiwi International with Freedom. Qantas has set up Jetstar against VB etc.
Competition is a good thing but cross subsidising a loss to get market share or kill competition is not acceptable.
For the workers it creates a fantastic hiring boom which is shortly followed by the bust cycle.
The Trans-Tasman market good be summed up by the old Split Enz song:
I see red I see red I see red
To allow foreign carriers to enter the market and operate in this fashion creates instability and company failures. The problem is that they are all guilty - Air New Zealand acted this way against Kiwi International with Freedom. Qantas has set up Jetstar against VB etc.
Competition is a good thing but cross subsidising a loss to get market share or kill competition is not acceptable.
For the workers it creates a fantastic hiring boom which is shortly followed by the bust cycle.
The Trans-Tasman market good be summed up by the old Split Enz song:
I see red I see red I see red
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Where people don't care
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CHERRY PICKING? You betcha!
What Emirates are doing between Aust and NZ is nothing short of cherry picking. They have three choices
1. have a quick T/Round in Oz and deliver their Europe/UK bound pax to Dubia at some ungod;y hour that doesn't provide any quick cannections. Result - few pax or unhappy pax
2. sit a/c on the gound all day long in Oz
3. find somehere to fly them during this 'down-time' and cost the operation on direct costs only (that is, ignore standing charges as they are incurred whether or no aeroplane flies). This way they can hit the market with what appears to be unsustainable fares. Unforthunately, this is causing grief to both Qantas and Air NZ but they are victims of their Govt's stupid policy of giving rights to anyone who wants them. It's also a sad fact of geography that results in both airlines being at the end of the line rather than in the middle. Those in the middle, like Singapore, Malaysian, Emirates, Gulf Air etc can exploit routes like this quite easily.
As for freight, if Emirates operate direct to Dubai, they either carry a lot of freight and few pax or a lot of pax but little freight. Are the aeroplanes they operate marathon runners with the strength of Sampson?
'nuff said..
1. have a quick T/Round in Oz and deliver their Europe/UK bound pax to Dubia at some ungod;y hour that doesn't provide any quick cannections. Result - few pax or unhappy pax
2. sit a/c on the gound all day long in Oz
3. find somehere to fly them during this 'down-time' and cost the operation on direct costs only (that is, ignore standing charges as they are incurred whether or no aeroplane flies). This way they can hit the market with what appears to be unsustainable fares. Unforthunately, this is causing grief to both Qantas and Air NZ but they are victims of their Govt's stupid policy of giving rights to anyone who wants them. It's also a sad fact of geography that results in both airlines being at the end of the line rather than in the middle. Those in the middle, like Singapore, Malaysian, Emirates, Gulf Air etc can exploit routes like this quite easily.
As for freight, if Emirates operate direct to Dubai, they either carry a lot of freight and few pax or a lot of pax but little freight. Are the aeroplanes they operate marathon runners with the strength of Sampson?
'nuff said..
Yes Far Canard and Don Esson, but what if Emirates is making a profit and not going for marginal costing?
Its not a very safe assumption to assume you are the lowest cost carrier and anyone undercutting you is obviously selling at less than cost.
Furthermore, I'm sick of all this veiled talk about "protecting" QF from competition. If QF can't compete, let it go under as quickly as possible and stop standing in the way of progress.
Its not a very safe assumption to assume you are the lowest cost carrier and anyone undercutting you is obviously selling at less than cost.
Furthermore, I'm sick of all this veiled talk about "protecting" QF from competition. If QF can't compete, let it go under as quickly as possible and stop standing in the way of progress.
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Competition is a good thing but cross subsidising a loss to get market share or kill competition is not acceptable
The problem is that they are all guilty -
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Sunfish,
Do you know something that we don't? The shiny new equipment and high cost expatriate crews used by Emirates would not be considered when they cost Tasman operations. Either that or they are operating at a loss. We know that they are not a charitable organisation so they must be costing the extra sections marginally and setting their prices on that. No other way to do it except at a loss.
I think we can also say that if the National Party (in Australia) and its vested interests did not exist, the priviliged position now enjoyed by Emirates would not have been allowed develop by either the ALP or the Liberals. Australia's interests would have been protected. And why the hell did the NZers give them rights?
Do you know something that we don't? The shiny new equipment and high cost expatriate crews used by Emirates would not be considered when they cost Tasman operations. Either that or they are operating at a loss. We know that they are not a charitable organisation so they must be costing the extra sections marginally and setting their prices on that. No other way to do it except at a loss.
I think we can also say that if the National Party (in Australia) and its vested interests did not exist, the priviliged position now enjoyed by Emirates would not have been allowed develop by either the ALP or the Liberals. Australia's interests would have been protected. And why the hell did the NZers give them rights?
And why the hell did the NZers give them rights?
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Ferris
Most carriers have practiced the cut throat pricing system in an attempt to kill competition. The long term result is negative.
I am not supporting Qantas or Air NZ or wishing Emirates to go.
Countries need stable air transport systems. If you consider the Qantas New Zealand / Ansett Australia / Air NZ failures recently then you will see the result of where head in the sand aviation policy takes you.
Most carriers have practiced the cut throat pricing system in an attempt to kill competition. The long term result is negative.
I am not supporting Qantas or Air NZ or wishing Emirates to go.
Countries need stable air transport systems. If you consider the Qantas New Zealand / Ansett Australia / Air NZ failures recently then you will see the result of where head in the sand aviation policy takes you.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Devonport Tasmania Australia
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I am sure you good people would have remembered that prior to Airfreight becoming a seperate division, Ansett operated many freight only 762 services Australia wide, and returned a very healthy profit.
If EK has the freight contracts, and you can bet your bottom dollar they do competing mainly against 733's and A320,s with the odd 744 and 767 thrown in, that they are on a real winner, particularly against the narrow body equipment. The scheduled times ex early morning arrivals are excellent too, with produce picked up in working hours and on the shelves next morning first thing without "out of hours" staff required.
The SLF are a bonus and deduct the parking charges at respective airports, but add the crewing costs.
These EK blokes are no dopes, and provide an excellent aeroplane, first class cabin crew and state of the art entertainment for the punters.
Why am I not amazed that intending passengers even in my relatively carrier-uneducated market are coming in through my doors and requesting them by name?
Just ask yourself, what would you rather travel on, a 733 with a pension card, an A320 or an A340-500 or 777-200, complete with state of the art entertainment systems?
EK has also just (today) become available on E ticket to Sabre connected agents and are still paying 9% on the Tasman as well as everywhere else.
As an exercise in passenger and reseller acceptance, they got the Gold.
Best all
EWL
If EK has the freight contracts, and you can bet your bottom dollar they do competing mainly against 733's and A320,s with the odd 744 and 767 thrown in, that they are on a real winner, particularly against the narrow body equipment. The scheduled times ex early morning arrivals are excellent too, with produce picked up in working hours and on the shelves next morning first thing without "out of hours" staff required.
The SLF are a bonus and deduct the parking charges at respective airports, but add the crewing costs.
These EK blokes are no dopes, and provide an excellent aeroplane, first class cabin crew and state of the art entertainment for the punters.
Why am I not amazed that intending passengers even in my relatively carrier-uneducated market are coming in through my doors and requesting them by name?
Just ask yourself, what would you rather travel on, a 733 with a pension card, an A320 or an A340-500 or 777-200, complete with state of the art entertainment systems?
EK has also just (today) become available on E ticket to Sabre connected agents and are still paying 9% on the Tasman as well as everywhere else.
As an exercise in passenger and reseller acceptance, they got the Gold.
Best all
EWL
Join Date: Sep 2001
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the priviliged position now enjoyed by Emirates would not have been allowed develop by either the ALP or the Liberals. Australia's interests would have been protected. And why the hell did the NZers give them rights?
The interests of Australia and NZ away from Aviation though, are certainly not only protected but supported by having Emirates delivering fresh produce daily to the Middle East. As I said before, go to any supermarket in the UAE, and other than dodgy looking indian beef and lamb, all the red meat is from Australia and New Zealand. Wander over to the Fruit and Vegetables section, and a large proportion of that is from Australia. So many primary producers in Australia and New Zealand are profitting greatly from the regularity and reliability of the Emirates service to and from Australia and New Zealand.
Another point is that the direct flights to Melbourne and Sydney, and then the short hop over to New Zealand, is making the snow fields of New Zealand very attractive to the large number of very well paid expats here wanting to swap some sand for some snow. If you look at the costs of skiing in Europe, it is cheaper as a package to fly to NZ from here. That has to be good for New Zealand as well.
Short term, based on passenger revenue alone, yes, the jump over to NZ and back may not be returning a profit. But if you factor in the freight issue, along with the long term gains, of building up the route for passengers over time, I think Emirates will end up winning.
Evertonian
Very little yield on Trans Tasman freight. 40cents or so I think...been a while. However, on a PAX aircraft, it's always just the cream on top, so it doesn't matter as much as it would to the freighters like LH or CV.
