Airline EBA time again
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Airline EBA time again
It's that time again, and the crews of QF and DJ start chatting about what they hope for in the new EBA.
What are your expecations ? Are you looking for lifestlye or dollars ?
What are your expecations ? Are you looking for lifestlye or dollars ?
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Either will do!!
However,we are off to a bad start with our old PWC,who achieved zilch last time,SOMEHOW being re-elected.
Let's hope they have everyones interests at heart this time and are prepared to hang in there for what's fair eg OVERTIME!
Interesting times ahead.
Gnadensqueezer,Karunt,Quieer and co........ don't bother,you're getting very repetetive and boring... Go visit "kiddyfiddla.com" instead,i'm sure you old tossers know where to find it.
However,we are off to a bad start with our old PWC,who achieved zilch last time,SOMEHOW being re-elected.
Let's hope they have everyones interests at heart this time and are prepared to hang in there for what's fair eg OVERTIME!
Interesting times ahead.
Gnadensqueezer,Karunt,Quieer and co........ don't bother,you're getting very repetetive and boring... Go visit "kiddyfiddla.com" instead,i'm sure you old tossers know where to find it.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Don't joke about it TCoB, at the last "contract" (and I use the word very loosely, as these contracts are really 1-way streets), the Irish contractor through whom I'm employed offered me some KY, foc!!
But since then several more pilots have walked, or not re-signed.
There ARE lots of jobs out there, and some employers (eg SQ, Air DO) are now starting to realise that pilots will walk, and that the pilot shortage is going to become even more acute as the Baby Boomers hit the wall, and other new airlines (in China and the Middle East) sprout up, and soak up any available pilots.
One of the guys who left here has had 3 jobs in about 12 months, on B767, B737NG, and now A320.
For info, Air Do is offering 737 drivers >USD10k + +, with 10 days "Off" per month, and Business Class (the highest available back to Oz) for you and family.
But since then several more pilots have walked, or not re-signed.
There ARE lots of jobs out there, and some employers (eg SQ, Air DO) are now starting to realise that pilots will walk, and that the pilot shortage is going to become even more acute as the Baby Boomers hit the wall, and other new airlines (in China and the Middle East) sprout up, and soak up any available pilots.
One of the guys who left here has had 3 jobs in about 12 months, on B767, B737NG, and now A320.
For info, Air Do is offering 737 drivers >USD10k + +, with 10 days "Off" per month, and Business Class (the highest available back to Oz) for you and family.
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It suprises me how the EBA negotiations don't begin until about three months prior to expiry of the current EBA. It takes some very short sighted individuals to think THAT will be enough time especially considering last time.....
Cool&Gang
Don't be so simple and sensitive. Your being shafted and it hurts.
A professional pilot with any degree of market wisdom, has no joy in seeing VB and Jetstar pilots wallowing in sub standard conditions of service.
It would be pleasing to see a significant improvement in the EBA's of VB, J* and to an extent, QF.
The two obvious positives for myself and other pilots abroad is:
1- It drys up supply to our markets. There has been an avalanche of Virgin Blue pilot applications abroad. If VB pilots were not struggling financially en mass, the attempted mini exodus would cease.
2- Well paid Australian pilots at home makes for well paid foreign basings. Although pilot groups of foreign airlines vigorously push QF as the benchmark, I am sure mangement asks "but look at what Virgin pilots work for".
So good luck in your EBA's. Self destructive to wish otherwise.
Your nervous reference to child pornograpy distasteful too!
Don't be so simple and sensitive. Your being shafted and it hurts.
A professional pilot with any degree of market wisdom, has no joy in seeing VB and Jetstar pilots wallowing in sub standard conditions of service.
It would be pleasing to see a significant improvement in the EBA's of VB, J* and to an extent, QF.
The two obvious positives for myself and other pilots abroad is:
1- It drys up supply to our markets. There has been an avalanche of Virgin Blue pilot applications abroad. If VB pilots were not struggling financially en mass, the attempted mini exodus would cease.
2- Well paid Australian pilots at home makes for well paid foreign basings. Although pilot groups of foreign airlines vigorously push QF as the benchmark, I am sure mangement asks "but look at what Virgin pilots work for".
So good luck in your EBA's. Self destructive to wish otherwise.
Your nervous reference to child pornograpy distasteful too!
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Sadly, I suspect that as long as there is a long line of "qualified" applicants knocking on the recruitment door we can expect very little improvement in the short term.
Lets face it what does it really cost the airline to place you on line given you arrive "type-rated" at NO expense to the airline. Line training the newbies still fills two seats on a scheduled flight, with a minor loading for the Training Captain.
As mentioned it will probably come down to the great economic supply vs demand argument. Yes low cost airlines are growing everywhere in the world. They predominantly provide high frequency point to point services with B737/A320 sized fleets. I suspect this will mean more pilots flying more jets - GOOD news. So down the track things should improve for us, however right now - yulp - who knows.
Pureists would suggest that we all work hard and our airlines are profitable. Our collective managements are filling their boots with all number of payments and bonuses - so why should'nt we ?
Yes there are a large number of active applications being followed up in Asia etc BUT at present very few bums have moved abroad. Management can afford to sit and see.
So where do the negotiations head, not real sure and not holding my breathe. What is certain is that we must all stick together or fear getting shafted yet again.
Enough.....
Lets face it what does it really cost the airline to place you on line given you arrive "type-rated" at NO expense to the airline. Line training the newbies still fills two seats on a scheduled flight, with a minor loading for the Training Captain.
As mentioned it will probably come down to the great economic supply vs demand argument. Yes low cost airlines are growing everywhere in the world. They predominantly provide high frequency point to point services with B737/A320 sized fleets. I suspect this will mean more pilots flying more jets - GOOD news. So down the track things should improve for us, however right now - yulp - who knows.
Pureists would suggest that we all work hard and our airlines are profitable. Our collective managements are filling their boots with all number of payments and bonuses - so why should'nt we ?
Yes there are a large number of active applications being followed up in Asia etc BUT at present very few bums have moved abroad. Management can afford to sit and see.
So where do the negotiations head, not real sure and not holding my breathe. What is certain is that we must all stick together or fear getting shafted yet again.
Enough.....
If you want to win this one, you need to understand that the battle isn't going to be fought in the courts or at the airport. Its going to be fought in Public Arena and what you will be fighting for is to get PUBLIC OPINION on your side. If you can't won't or don't do that then you will eventually lose.
IMHO, Hawke was able to lend Government support to Abeles and Co. because the public perception of the pilots at the time was something like this: They were a bunch of prima donnas or spoiled brats who earned way too much money anyway, lived luxury lifestyles, worked short hours and tax dodged through their country properties. These rich little a$rseholes were holding the entire country to ransom, destroying Australia's tourist industry, paralysing the economy, stopping dying grandparents from seeing their grandchildren one more time, and generally being warts on the bum of progress.
The general public then sat back and watched a LABOR Government use the MILITARY to destroy a UNION. In other words, if you want the Government to stay out of it, you are going to have to convince the general public that they should be supporting you and not the airline management.
So if you want to take on Qantas, I'd start right now to develop your communications strategy and the message you want to send because I guess Mr. Dixon is already mentally rehearsing what he is going to say to Alan Jones and similar commentators.
If it were me, my theme would be to attack the Qantas brand big time, on the basis that it was losing its "Australianess". The public has a very high perception that Qantas is OUR airline. It is an object of national pride and we would like it keep it that way.
Over to you boys and girls. Good luck.
P.S. My theme would be based on the idea that evil overseas interests were trying to steal Qantas from Australia.
Stealing the dreams of kids who want to be Qantas pilots or flight attendants, or engineers.
Stealing Qantas\'s safety record which was built by Australian pilots and engineers.
Stealing a symbol of Australias pride.
In other words, Qantas is not going to be Australia\'s airline if it is populated by pom flight attendants out of London and god knows who out of Peking, aircraft maintained by the lowest tenderers from Haeco or whatever, piloted by people who can barely speak engrish.
You want the public to remember this whenever Qantas runs those "I still call Australia home" ads.
Send that message succesfully and it will hit market share - and of course since marketers are running Qantas these days, they will give in.
Please now bag me for giving worthless free advice.
IMHO, Hawke was able to lend Government support to Abeles and Co. because the public perception of the pilots at the time was something like this: They were a bunch of prima donnas or spoiled brats who earned way too much money anyway, lived luxury lifestyles, worked short hours and tax dodged through their country properties. These rich little a$rseholes were holding the entire country to ransom, destroying Australia's tourist industry, paralysing the economy, stopping dying grandparents from seeing their grandchildren one more time, and generally being warts on the bum of progress.
The general public then sat back and watched a LABOR Government use the MILITARY to destroy a UNION. In other words, if you want the Government to stay out of it, you are going to have to convince the general public that they should be supporting you and not the airline management.
So if you want to take on Qantas, I'd start right now to develop your communications strategy and the message you want to send because I guess Mr. Dixon is already mentally rehearsing what he is going to say to Alan Jones and similar commentators.
If it were me, my theme would be to attack the Qantas brand big time, on the basis that it was losing its "Australianess". The public has a very high perception that Qantas is OUR airline. It is an object of national pride and we would like it keep it that way.
Over to you boys and girls. Good luck.
P.S. My theme would be based on the idea that evil overseas interests were trying to steal Qantas from Australia.
Stealing the dreams of kids who want to be Qantas pilots or flight attendants, or engineers.
Stealing Qantas\'s safety record which was built by Australian pilots and engineers.
Stealing a symbol of Australias pride.
In other words, Qantas is not going to be Australia\'s airline if it is populated by pom flight attendants out of London and god knows who out of Peking, aircraft maintained by the lowest tenderers from Haeco or whatever, piloted by people who can barely speak engrish.
You want the public to remember this whenever Qantas runs those "I still call Australia home" ads.
Send that message succesfully and it will hit market share - and of course since marketers are running Qantas these days, they will give in.
Please now bag me for giving worthless free advice.
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Sunfish .......Excellent Suggestion!!!
Sunfish
Excellent ,sound advice.A similar approach has been suggested on the LHR base thread in the Cabin crew forum.You are one of the few who is not only critical but is also prepared to offer some constructive positive alternatives.If you don`t mind I would like to send your advice to some of the unions who are now undertaking EBA negotiations with RATTY and his mob.
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.Please PM me if you wish
Excellent ,sound advice.A similar approach has been suggested on the LHR base thread in the Cabin crew forum.You are one of the few who is not only critical but is also prepared to offer some constructive positive alternatives.If you don`t mind I would like to send your advice to some of the unions who are now undertaking EBA negotiations with RATTY and his mob.
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.Please PM me if you wish
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Yep, sound advice from Sunfish but the COM (not all of them) who run AIPA have been appraised of this approach already. The result is a predictable zero. Not invented here syndrome and all that.
We should have briefed a PR company to put together a campaign to lift our public perception some time ago. The teachers did it and were successful in getting onside public opinion. Mention teachers or nurses to the average joe blow and they (mostly) nod respectfully.
Mention you are a Qantas pilot and the public perception is pretty much same as Sunfish suggests once you scratch the surface.
"oh dont the computers do it all?"
"It must be great having all that time to go sailing/golfing etc"
"Is it true what they say about pilots?"
"what do you do just sitting there all the time?"
"I heard the bump in the jumbo is so you have room to sit on your wallet?"
"you have such a good job flying all over the world for free"
and they go on.
They trust us to deliver them in one piece but still think we are a bunch of overpaid prima donnas and would have absolutely no support for us in a dispute.
We havent had a fatality in over 50 years. People take it as a given that if you get on Qantas you get there and this is just one of many angles a good PR Co could use. Sunfish has indicated others. Yeah I know about BKK. No one killed though and the public wouldn't remember it anyhow.
Nevertheless the allocation of some resources is long overdue in the PR area, for the good of all professional pilots.
We should have briefed a PR company to put together a campaign to lift our public perception some time ago. The teachers did it and were successful in getting onside public opinion. Mention teachers or nurses to the average joe blow and they (mostly) nod respectfully.
Mention you are a Qantas pilot and the public perception is pretty much same as Sunfish suggests once you scratch the surface.
"oh dont the computers do it all?"
"It must be great having all that time to go sailing/golfing etc"
"Is it true what they say about pilots?"
"what do you do just sitting there all the time?"
"I heard the bump in the jumbo is so you have room to sit on your wallet?"
"you have such a good job flying all over the world for free"
and they go on.
They trust us to deliver them in one piece but still think we are a bunch of overpaid prima donnas and would have absolutely no support for us in a dispute.
We havent had a fatality in over 50 years. People take it as a given that if you get on Qantas you get there and this is just one of many angles a good PR Co could use. Sunfish has indicated others. Yeah I know about BKK. No one killed though and the public wouldn't remember it anyhow.
Nevertheless the allocation of some resources is long overdue in the PR area, for the good of all professional pilots.
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Yeah I know about BKK. No one killed though and the public wouldn't remember it anyhow.
Get a good Spin doctor, and start the treatment early. Isn't that what the professionals say?
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That, and find some committed individuals to negotiate on your behalf.
Sure as hell didn't happen last time for DJ.
Not surprising really when AFAP upper echelon stand around peeing in the pockets of DJ flt ops.
I'm afraid the "union" (read as piss weak organisation) has alot of work to do to regain the confidence of the pilot body.
And before everyone starts bagging me for this post, I refer to the recommendation to sign the first draft of the EB which offered nothing for the pilot body.
Sure as hell didn't happen last time for DJ.
Not surprising really when AFAP upper echelon stand around peeing in the pockets of DJ flt ops.
I'm afraid the "union" (read as piss weak organisation) has alot of work to do to regain the confidence of the pilot body.
And before everyone starts bagging me for this post, I refer to the recommendation to sign the first draft of the EB which offered nothing for the pilot body.
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Hit the nail on the head there smokestak. The "pilots" pay the union a sizeable piece of cash each month - would be nice to see them serve us with renewed vigour.
Who is the union serving in the EBA negotiations, the pilots (paid members) or the airline management ?
Crikey smokestak you have opened a can of worms there !
Who is the union serving in the EBA negotiations, the pilots (paid members) or the airline management ?
Crikey smokestak you have opened a can of worms there !
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As much as I shake my head at what Sunfish blurts out 8 or 9 times out of ten....every now and again he comes out with some real pearls.
His comments in regards to Aopa getting it's act together and what the employees of "Q" need to do to get some appreciable results in regards to political pull in the former and retaining/improving workplace conditions for the latter are spot on.
It'd be nice to know that for future as well as current employees of Qantas, somebody is really in there actually resisting quite strongly what Dixon and co are attempting to achieve with Qantas.
Unionism and well thought out industial action are the only things that are going to mprove the lot of ALL employees of Qantas.
Quick question.......Why isn't the TWU active in this scrap?
His comments in regards to Aopa getting it's act together and what the employees of "Q" need to do to get some appreciable results in regards to political pull in the former and retaining/improving workplace conditions for the latter are spot on.
It'd be nice to know that for future as well as current employees of Qantas, somebody is really in there actually resisting quite strongly what Dixon and co are attempting to achieve with Qantas.
Unionism and well thought out industial action are the only things that are going to mprove the lot of ALL employees of Qantas.
Quick question.......Why isn't the TWU active in this scrap?
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Gnadenburg,
Can you tell us what the Annual Base Salary of a QF 737 Capt is, assuming no overtime is flown, and excluding any other allowances.
Also, what is the overtime hourly rate?
Thanks.
BB.
Can you tell us what the Annual Base Salary of a QF 737 Capt is, assuming no overtime is flown, and excluding any other allowances.
Also, what is the overtime hourly rate?
Thanks.
BB.