QF and J* Pilots - One Happy Family?
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It's a big 5h1t sandwich, and both pilot bodies need to take a bite. We are either together against management, or we aren't. Watch for the record profit on August 19th. If we aren't, the mainline side is now in a new EBA period, and I for one, would be happy to flex a little industrial muscle.
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I hope Jetstar pilots dont consider joining AIPA, and I would suggest you don't, AIPA dont do jack **** for the majority of QF pilots, you guys would be so mistreated you have no idea....Hang on, last president already did that didn't he?
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I'd like to respond to the bit about AIPA being useless but I'm too busy with my pinkies calculating the LH Standby call out credits the company have deliberately spivved us out of.
QF knowingly stuff up your pay and then ask you to calculate the fix and let them know! It's quite bizarre what goes on in QF these days.
QF knowingly stuff up your pay and then ask you to calculate the fix and let them know! It's quite bizarre what goes on in QF these days.
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Sadly, I must also agree with GTR. AIPA do nothing for us, so stick with the IPC, you couldn't be worse off !
Quite bizarre indeed........ Quite bizarre that there is nothing to be heard from our so called 'union' on this and a myriad of other matters. I guess they were too busy making sure their sons and daughters had seniority numbers while serving time at Air North or J* Asia....... or maybe too busy serving up the **** they say is "the best deal we could hope for".......... or signing off on the London pub...................... etc etc etc.
I believe there is some voting to be done soon. Time for a change of direction me thinks, and a leadership that actually looks after the members interests.
QF knowingly stuff up your pay and then ask you to calculate the fix and let them know! It's quite bizarre what goes on in QF these days.
I believe there is some voting to be done soon. Time for a change of direction me thinks, and a leadership that actually looks after the members interests.
Poor Bonvol...maybe $10 in the hand for a full standby plus callout...ouch! I'm sure you're made more out of overpaid allowances than that. Donate it to charity, they need it more than you do. 
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Too True, and too sad.
AIPA seem too focused on achieving Qantas goals and not the members.
It would appear correct that union management do not have a grip on the real issues concerning the membership, particularly those who represent the future.
Those of you who know me would know the significance of this, I am seriously considering the future of my AIPA membership.
Why? Because AIPA management works on the assumption that you are 24 when you join QF and you will have your 'turn' one day when things turn around for you.
Furthermore, even for the younger crew, they seem to ignore the issues and threats of today in favour of looking after the 'lifestyle' issues of senior crew.
I believe that unions should be egalitarian, not based on proportional representation according to seniority.
Unfortunately in mine and many others cases they are about a decade out of step and I don't see what the advantages are to me of supporting such a regieme.
AIPA seem too focused on achieving Qantas goals and not the members.
It would appear correct that union management do not have a grip on the real issues concerning the membership, particularly those who represent the future.
Those of you who know me would know the significance of this, I am seriously considering the future of my AIPA membership.
Why? Because AIPA management works on the assumption that you are 24 when you join QF and you will have your 'turn' one day when things turn around for you.
Furthermore, even for the younger crew, they seem to ignore the issues and threats of today in favour of looking after the 'lifestyle' issues of senior crew.
I believe that unions should be egalitarian, not based on proportional representation according to seniority.
Unfortunately in mine and many others cases they are about a decade out of step and I don't see what the advantages are to me of supporting such a regieme.
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Donating it to charity is a good idea, Fathom. If you could get it out of the company in the first place. And overpaid allowances? Theres no such animal in QF, let me tell you.
LJ. Sadly your views reflect a significant proportion of the membership. Gotta wonder why they just decided to go merrily off down this path with J*, without ever stopping to consider if this deal they are putting together is palatable to either membership.
AIPA have lost it. You just need to look at who was appointed to the new short haul representative position to illustrate my point. He is probably the most unpopular QF pilot in history, people are actually calling him a 'hazard to aviation', and yet he snivels his way into this position.
Lord help us!
LJ. Sadly your views reflect a significant proportion of the membership. Gotta wonder why they just decided to go merrily off down this path with J*, without ever stopping to consider if this deal they are putting together is palatable to either membership.
AIPA have lost it. You just need to look at who was appointed to the new short haul representative position to illustrate my point. He is probably the most unpopular QF pilot in history, people are actually calling him a 'hazard to aviation', and yet he snivels his way into this position.
Lord help us!
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Maybe I have got this wrong - Impulse get bigger Jets, so AIPA become interested in increasing its membership.
Eastern/Sunstate/Jetconnect get big jets, and I guess they too will be invited into the Mens Club?
It makes sense for all QF associated company pilots to come under the one umbrella, however the umbrella needs to be big enough to ensure that no one on the edge gets wet.
Eastern/Sunstate/Jetconnect get big jets, and I guess they too will be invited into the Mens Club?
It makes sense for all QF associated company pilots to come under the one umbrella, however the umbrella needs to be big enough to ensure that no one on the edge gets wet.
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Wake up and smell the future!!!
Well this issue has now become a focus on the other bulletin board frequented by chaps who seriously believe that by mouthing off they will somehow influence what happens. Qrewroom readers should heed the advice " It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to speak and remove all doubt."
Management read the board, (as does Dick Smith and others by the way), regularly to assess topical issues and gather opinion on the employees on their fleets. To be a 24 year old F/O with 3 years in the company does not look good when you start whinging. If you don't like it F*** OFF!!! There are 10000 others who would take your job in an instant. Never believe your own hype!
This is about coverage. Nothing more nothing less. It is about all Qantas Group Flight Crew being covered by AIPA and gaining the benefits of that coverage. If you guys can't see that then your futures are bleak. There are 1000 plus scabs in Qantas, they just have never been given the chance to have a go. You tough blokes that write all the bull**** on Qrewroom and here. how long would you be able to go without an income? How long before your wife left you or nagged your ass off to go back. You are all so tough but have never faced it.
So what are you gonna do. Spit in the face of AIPA and the Jetstar Pilots and say F*** YOU!! Then what is your strategy for advancing your futures? Please tell me, I'd love to know. There are a number of marginally educated people slipping through the net that seem to think like Trade Unionists. Wake Up fools!! Qantas owns 4, that's right 4, Airlines in the region doing exactly what you annointed ones do for half the money. What do you think will happen if you say F*** YOU?
You WILL be marginalised and played off in the race to the bottom. You WILL be stuck in your current rank as growth ceases in mainline. You WILL have played in to the hands of Ian Oldmeadow in his attempts to make this profession a Trade.
Vote YES for the deal and seek to bring the bottom up. Don't say F*** YOU and look to your colleagues to dig in to hold your position.. It has been tried before remember. Only this time the average property costs $500,000 and the average mortgage is a lot more than it was in 1989.
Think and plan for the future. Learn from the past. My dear Father always said, "If you f** Up once and learn that's OK, If you make the same F*** UP twice then you are a F****** Idiot!"
COVERAGE EQUALS LEVERAGE!!!
Unite fellow professionals and make this a career worth aspiring to, not a trade afterthought..
VOTE YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Management read the board, (as does Dick Smith and others by the way), regularly to assess topical issues and gather opinion on the employees on their fleets. To be a 24 year old F/O with 3 years in the company does not look good when you start whinging. If you don't like it F*** OFF!!! There are 10000 others who would take your job in an instant. Never believe your own hype!
This is about coverage. Nothing more nothing less. It is about all Qantas Group Flight Crew being covered by AIPA and gaining the benefits of that coverage. If you guys can't see that then your futures are bleak. There are 1000 plus scabs in Qantas, they just have never been given the chance to have a go. You tough blokes that write all the bull**** on Qrewroom and here. how long would you be able to go without an income? How long before your wife left you or nagged your ass off to go back. You are all so tough but have never faced it.
So what are you gonna do. Spit in the face of AIPA and the Jetstar Pilots and say F*** YOU!! Then what is your strategy for advancing your futures? Please tell me, I'd love to know. There are a number of marginally educated people slipping through the net that seem to think like Trade Unionists. Wake Up fools!! Qantas owns 4, that's right 4, Airlines in the region doing exactly what you annointed ones do for half the money. What do you think will happen if you say F*** YOU?
You WILL be marginalised and played off in the race to the bottom. You WILL be stuck in your current rank as growth ceases in mainline. You WILL have played in to the hands of Ian Oldmeadow in his attempts to make this profession a Trade.
Vote YES for the deal and seek to bring the bottom up. Don't say F*** YOU and look to your colleagues to dig in to hold your position.. It has been tried before remember. Only this time the average property costs $500,000 and the average mortgage is a lot more than it was in 1989.
Think and plan for the future. Learn from the past. My dear Father always said, "If you f** Up once and learn that's OK, If you make the same F*** UP twice then you are a F****** Idiot!"
COVERAGE EQUALS LEVERAGE!!!
Unite fellow professionals and make this a career worth aspiring to, not a trade afterthought..
VOTE YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Agent Mulder; 28th Aug 2004 at 09:06.
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All you seem to do is say F*** in that post, Mulder. Your logic is certainly flawed.
I agree on the concept of uniting the associations. So if we want to unite, then lets do it. Lets not go through all this bullsh1t about 'exchanging career opportunities', because QF pilots don't want to earn the pittance that Jetw@nker earn, and they in turn know they cant pass the selection criteria for QF, because they havent managed to previously, so it holds no attraction to them either.
So why go through all this unnecessary crap? All it does is tell management that we as QF pilots endorse the sh1t pay that Jetwit earn. There would have been better ways to do this. But AIPA of course, don't bother asking the members. They just go off and waste our resources chasing their tails yet again.
This concept of uniting is simplicity in itself. Just do it. Dont squabble. Dont do underhanded deals. Just do it.
Horrible thought really, but AIPA should probably go back to worrying about foil meal trays, and such things that are important to an antiqated 400 captain. They at least were successful there....
I agree on the concept of uniting the associations. So if we want to unite, then lets do it. Lets not go through all this bullsh1t about 'exchanging career opportunities', because QF pilots don't want to earn the pittance that Jetw@nker earn, and they in turn know they cant pass the selection criteria for QF, because they havent managed to previously, so it holds no attraction to them either.
So why go through all this unnecessary crap? All it does is tell management that we as QF pilots endorse the sh1t pay that Jetwit earn. There would have been better ways to do this. But AIPA of course, don't bother asking the members. They just go off and waste our resources chasing their tails yet again.
This concept of uniting is simplicity in itself. Just do it. Dont squabble. Dont do underhanded deals. Just do it.
Horrible thought really, but AIPA should probably go back to worrying about foil meal trays, and such things that are important to an antiqated 400 captain. They at least were successful there....
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schweinhund,
Being the fount of all knowledge, can you please inform me of how many Jetstar pilots have previously applied to Qantas and been rejected? I think you will find that the numbers are not as great as you think.
Sure, some may never get past the tests. However why not give fellow pilots the opportunity to at least have a go. Why does this threaten you so much.
Who says that Qantas pilots are not interested in Jetstar? I know of at least 12 who are and more are coming out of the woodwork everyday. I remember people saying that no one would go to Australian Airlines because it was crap. Try getting a command up there now! Doesn't look so crap when the music stops does it? What happens when the music stops in Mainline. S/O's and F/O's (as well as Capt's) have the opportunity to take a command on an A320 subject to meeting the requirements of Jetstar. Better than sitting in the back. Ask any ex Ansett S/O or F/O what their co-pilot time was worth on the world market. It is command time that counts and an opportunity to gain that is worth its weight in gold.
The first opportunities don't arise for transfer for about 2-3- years and in that time if the conditions are as bad as you say they are then there will have been 1-2 EBA's that may have addressed some of your concerns. Think to the future, don't focus on the now.
Voting YES does not say that AIPA members are happy with the deal. AIPA knows that there was more money available and the guys sold themselves a bit cheap, but if you were placed in the position of having a gun to your head and asked to sign or you lose your job, what would you do tough guy?
Ask for assistance?
From whom?
The AFAP? They assisted in the firing of the gun for the race to the bottom by agreeing to the VB contract. Yet their members from Kendells etc are now out of a job. Go figure? Who has the AFAP really assisted in years? GA? Qantaslink? Virgin?
AIPA? Not after their previous President GD told them they would all be better off as S/O's. Not quite what you want to hear when looking for assistance.
So with all your bravado what would you do tough guy? My guess is sign. I also suspect you have never been put in that position so look deep inside.
This is about uniting pilots and offering opportunities. It is not tacit approval of the wages and conditions of the Jetstar pilots. It is about doing all that AIPA members (the highest paid Airline Pilots in the country) can to improve the lot of others and in doing so help keep what you currently enjoy.
Read the following Raising the Bar
and think about how that could be you. In fact it is. Me, I think like the author because I can see the race to the bottom if we don't pull our collective heads out of our asses and look after the little guy. The next thing that happens is that you are the little guy and who's going to help you out?
Think about the future, unite the pilots and keep a great job great. United we bargain, divided we beg.
I think it is your logic that is flawed. F*** THEM does not a deal make. Nor does insulting fellow professionals.
VOTE YES!!!!!!
Being the fount of all knowledge, can you please inform me of how many Jetstar pilots have previously applied to Qantas and been rejected? I think you will find that the numbers are not as great as you think.
Sure, some may never get past the tests. However why not give fellow pilots the opportunity to at least have a go. Why does this threaten you so much.
Who says that Qantas pilots are not interested in Jetstar? I know of at least 12 who are and more are coming out of the woodwork everyday. I remember people saying that no one would go to Australian Airlines because it was crap. Try getting a command up there now! Doesn't look so crap when the music stops does it? What happens when the music stops in Mainline. S/O's and F/O's (as well as Capt's) have the opportunity to take a command on an A320 subject to meeting the requirements of Jetstar. Better than sitting in the back. Ask any ex Ansett S/O or F/O what their co-pilot time was worth on the world market. It is command time that counts and an opportunity to gain that is worth its weight in gold.
The first opportunities don't arise for transfer for about 2-3- years and in that time if the conditions are as bad as you say they are then there will have been 1-2 EBA's that may have addressed some of your concerns. Think to the future, don't focus on the now.
Voting YES does not say that AIPA members are happy with the deal. AIPA knows that there was more money available and the guys sold themselves a bit cheap, but if you were placed in the position of having a gun to your head and asked to sign or you lose your job, what would you do tough guy?
Ask for assistance?
From whom?
The AFAP? They assisted in the firing of the gun for the race to the bottom by agreeing to the VB contract. Yet their members from Kendells etc are now out of a job. Go figure? Who has the AFAP really assisted in years? GA? Qantaslink? Virgin?
AIPA? Not after their previous President GD told them they would all be better off as S/O's. Not quite what you want to hear when looking for assistance.
So with all your bravado what would you do tough guy? My guess is sign. I also suspect you have never been put in that position so look deep inside.
This is about uniting pilots and offering opportunities. It is not tacit approval of the wages and conditions of the Jetstar pilots. It is about doing all that AIPA members (the highest paid Airline Pilots in the country) can to improve the lot of others and in doing so help keep what you currently enjoy.
Read the following Raising the Bar
and think about how that could be you. In fact it is. Me, I think like the author because I can see the race to the bottom if we don't pull our collective heads out of our asses and look after the little guy. The next thing that happens is that you are the little guy and who's going to help you out?
Think about the future, unite the pilots and keep a great job great. United we bargain, divided we beg.
I think it is your logic that is flawed. F*** THEM does not a deal make. Nor does insulting fellow professionals.
VOTE YES!!!!!!
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Well mulder you have exposed yourself as a first rate idiot and demeaned your argument (which many agree with in principle BTW) by using foul language and carrying on like a pork chop.
I have read the Qroom thread and it seems to be quite moderate in its arguments.
If you are such an expert on who and who isnt an idiot why don't you post on Qroom under your own name referencing this thread.............mmmmmmmmmmmm....... I guess not - what a hero you are.
Your mates in the jetstar pilots council have continously recieved advice from Ian Oldmeadow (architect of '89) on how to undermine AIPA and the QF pilot body (including regionals) by doing a direct deal with QF over the A320.
Even as I write, Oldmeadow is urging Jetstar pilots not to vote 'yes 'to the MOU and to stay away from AIPA so that 'special' deals may be done over the A380 and perhaps the A340 in the near future.
Before you go flaming your colleagues maybe you should look at who the real enemy here is.
It is not junior crewmembers trying to make head or tail of a diabolically bad situation.
I have read the Qroom thread and it seems to be quite moderate in its arguments.
If you are such an expert on who and who isnt an idiot why don't you post on Qroom under your own name referencing this thread.............mmmmmmmmmmmm....... I guess not - what a hero you are.
Your mates in the jetstar pilots council have continously recieved advice from Ian Oldmeadow (architect of '89) on how to undermine AIPA and the QF pilot body (including regionals) by doing a direct deal with QF over the A320.
Even as I write, Oldmeadow is urging Jetstar pilots not to vote 'yes 'to the MOU and to stay away from AIPA so that 'special' deals may be done over the A380 and perhaps the A340 in the near future.
Before you go flaming your colleagues maybe you should look at who the real enemy here is.
It is not junior crewmembers trying to make head or tail of a diabolically bad situation.