Life in a QF Regional
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Life in a QF Regional
Hi guys (Hoss, Hugh et al),
Quick query...... What is progression like for an FO in his twenties like at EAA or Sunnies ??
The job sounds great but in the past Ive tended to get a bit toey after a few years in the same job with no movement !!
What is the rough time to a command and are many guys moving on elsewhere ??
Do you think a job with a QF regional would make it easier or harder to get into Jetstar ??
Quick query...... What is progression like for an FO in his twenties like at EAA or Sunnies ??
The job sounds great but in the past Ive tended to get a bit toey after a few years in the same job with no movement !!
What is the rough time to a command and are many guys moving on elsewhere ??
Do you think a job with a QF regional would make it easier or harder to get into Jetstar ??
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Getting a Job in a QF regional in your twenties is a ticket to most other Airlines except maybe Qantas! Should be plenty of vacancies coming up following Cathay, Dragon and Air Hong Kong interviews….
If Eastern/Sunstate (one company soon, Suntern or Eaststate??? Maybe just Qantaslink), Qantas management and AIPA ever get together maybe a future in the regionals might be an option.
If Eastern/Sunstate (one company soon, Suntern or Eaststate??? Maybe just Qantaslink), Qantas management and AIPA ever get together maybe a future in the regionals might be an option.
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OpsNormal
Progression within - forget it anywhere from 5 - 10 years
Progression with other airlines- it seems all other world wide airlines and Virgin treasurer the QF regional product but forget getting a lookin at the big Q or Jetstar. Regional pilots are the very poor cousins it would seem even now by Jetstar.
get in and get a few years of good enjoyment flying with true professionals and move on to Virgin, Cathay and alike like more than 100 other QF regional FO's have done in the last 2 years or you may be luckly to one of the half dozen to QF in the last couple of years.
Progression within - forget it anywhere from 5 - 10 years
Progression with other airlines- it seems all other world wide airlines and Virgin treasurer the QF regional product but forget getting a lookin at the big Q or Jetstar. Regional pilots are the very poor cousins it would seem even now by Jetstar.
get in and get a few years of good enjoyment flying with true professionals and move on to Virgin, Cathay and alike like more than 100 other QF regional FO's have done in the last 2 years or you may be luckly to one of the half dozen to QF in the last couple of years.
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Spinout, I reckon (hope) the AFAP will be a dead duck with Eastern within a couple of years. Why?
........(Edited, because I can)
OpsNormal, sorry to hijack the thread, but I had to get off my chest what a significant number of pilots at QF regionals are feeling at the moment.
Now, back on thread.....Age has nothing to do with your progression or prospects of promotion. It has been anywhere from 18 months to 10 years(!) based upon your seniority within the group. Currently it is back to about 3 years from FO to Capt.
As Spinout and vigi-one wrote, it's an excellent way to build experience to move on outside the QF group. Generally it appears all airlines outside the QF group that are currently hiring are quite satisfied with the Qantaslink product
In some instances they are head-hunting our blokes. Sort of a back-handed compliment if you like 
As far as Jetstar is concerned, I feel it will have little effect on your prospects either way, as Jetstar is a seperate entity just as is National Jet or Australian Airlines.
If you get a guernsey I think you'll enjoy your time here, get good training, fly a reasonably modern fleet, and when the time comes to move on (as it will), you'll look back on your experiences in a positive way.
Good luck.
........(Edited, because I can)
OpsNormal, sorry to hijack the thread, but I had to get off my chest what a significant number of pilots at QF regionals are feeling at the moment.
Now, back on thread.....Age has nothing to do with your progression or prospects of promotion. It has been anywhere from 18 months to 10 years(!) based upon your seniority within the group. Currently it is back to about 3 years from FO to Capt.
As Spinout and vigi-one wrote, it's an excellent way to build experience to move on outside the QF group. Generally it appears all airlines outside the QF group that are currently hiring are quite satisfied with the Qantaslink product
In some instances they are head-hunting our blokes. Sort of a back-handed compliment if you like As far as Jetstar is concerned, I feel it will have little effect on your prospects either way, as Jetstar is a seperate entity just as is National Jet or Australian Airlines.
If you get a guernsey I think you'll enjoy your time here, get good training, fly a reasonably modern fleet, and when the time comes to move on (as it will), you'll look back on your experiences in a positive way.
Good luck.
Last edited by Hugh Jarse; 2nd Aug 2004 at 20:26.
I fly with quite a few ex Sunnies and Eastern boys/girls here in Cathay and they are all pretty good operators. So get into QantasLink, build up some hours and come here. We'll take you.
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The obvious question then is why does mainline QF bury it's head in the sand and watch these experienced pilots move on to bigger and better with outfits like Cathay and Virgin Blue?
There is a redundant argument about paying for training costs of a new replacement regional pilot and your type rating course at QF but over 20-45 years career potential big deal.
Some things only accountants understand eh!
There is a redundant argument about paying for training costs of a new replacement regional pilot and your type rating course at QF but over 20-45 years career potential big deal.
Some things only accountants understand eh!
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Hi Hugh,
Just a note you said
"As far as Jetstar is concerned, I feel it will have little effect on your prospects either way, as Jetstar is a separate entity just as is National Jet or Australian Airlines"
Eastern, Sunstate, Jetstar, and Australian are all wholly owned subsidiaries of Qantas. National Jet is not! It contracts to Qantas. I believe the flying contracted out to National Jet should be brought in house. Maybe Qantas will buy them also!
Just a note you said
"As far as Jetstar is concerned, I feel it will have little effect on your prospects either way, as Jetstar is a separate entity just as is National Jet or Australian Airlines"
Eastern, Sunstate, Jetstar, and Australian are all wholly owned subsidiaries of Qantas. National Jet is not! It contracts to Qantas. I believe the flying contracted out to National Jet should be brought in house. Maybe Qantas will buy them also!
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Whats the latest on the Sunnies/EAA merge ??
I note that the sunnies recruitment system has been brough into line with easterns.....
The word from a managment pilot a few months ago was that he didnt see it happening in the near future but ive heard lots of talk about it elsewhere......
SHAGTASTIC - Is the lack of progression to mainline purely a beancounter thing ? As you say, hardly significant in the big picture. Are there some other evil forces at work ??
I note that the sunnies recruitment system has been brough into line with easterns.....
The word from a managment pilot a few months ago was that he didnt see it happening in the near future but ive heard lots of talk about it elsewhere......
SHAGTASTIC - Is the lack of progression to mainline purely a beancounter thing ? As you say, hardly significant in the big picture. Are there some other evil forces at work ??
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OpsNormal,
There is NO word of any merger as such, as IMHO its the aim of the Evil Empire to keep the operations separate so as to facilitate the divide and conquer mentality between the various labour groups that seems to be the flavour of the month....
Regarding recruiting, I think the objective has been to centralise and streamline the recruiting for some time. What you see now is a result of that. What will it be like in 6 months? Who knows. What you do know is that if you aspire to work for Sunstate you will have to complete the S&P, a sim ride and at least one interview.
Spinout, perhaps I should have been more specific and written "Airlink", which is wholly owned etc. You know what I mean.
Shagtastic, you have a couple of hundred regional pilots scratching their heads at why they are stonewalled. Many have been scratching for so long they're moving on outside the group, as they don't have much hair left......
There is NO word of any merger as such, as IMHO its the aim of the Evil Empire to keep the operations separate so as to facilitate the divide and conquer mentality between the various labour groups that seems to be the flavour of the month....
Regarding recruiting, I think the objective has been to centralise and streamline the recruiting for some time. What you see now is a result of that. What will it be like in 6 months? Who knows. What you do know is that if you aspire to work for Sunstate you will have to complete the S&P, a sim ride and at least one interview.
Spinout, perhaps I should have been more specific and written "Airlink", which is wholly owned etc. You know what I mean.
Shagtastic, you have a couple of hundred regional pilots scratching their heads at why they are stonewalled. Many have been scratching for so long they're moving on outside the group, as they don't have much hair left......
Bottums Up
OperationsNormal,
Airlink is a wholely owned subsidiary of Qantas. It does not employ any pilots, nor own any aircraft. It, Airlink, wetleases from NJS, and the flights operate under the QantasLink banner.
spinout
Maybe Qantas will buy NJS when the Eagles tour later this year!
Airlink is a wholely owned subsidiary of Qantas. It does not employ any pilots, nor own any aircraft. It, Airlink, wetleases from NJS, and the flights operate under the QantasLink banner.
spinout
Maybe Qantas will buy NJS when the Eagles tour later this year!
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The QF regional flying is about the best flying you can get. Its just such a pity there is no progression. So many other professions reward and motivate staff to better themselves. It's unfortunate, even with today's opportunities for movement that companies with such backing as Eastern/Sunnies give pilots no opportunity to move on within the group. Some would happily stay forever others would serve the company well waiting for advancement.
It's very shortsighted thinking and unfortunately it's the way airlines are now run. Profits and schedule above employee satisfation and customer relations.
It's very shortsighted thinking and unfortunately it's the way airlines are now run. Profits and schedule above employee satisfation and customer relations.
It is interesting to note that the regional F/As have career progression into QF but the pilots don't. You would have to have been around in the early 90's to know why that is. The deal was there for the pilots but it was rejected. Obviously not a flash decision! Maybe getting under the AIPA banner may help??
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Bonez
to clarify your remark, remember the "deal" was renieged on by QF Management and AIPA not the regional pilots.
Why would joining AIPA assist? Look at that mess they are in.
to clarify your remark, remember the "deal" was renieged on by QF Management and AIPA not the regional pilots.
Why would joining AIPA assist? Look at that mess they are in.
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AIPA v AFAP for the Qantas Regional Pilots???
Maybe this should be a thread in its self….
I believe AIPA would be the lesser of the two evils...
Why?
I don’t think the AFAP management is running the Union with the best interests of its members; more like the Union is taking its direction from its employees, its Industrial Advisers who have little or no negotiation skills.
I don’t think AIPA is in that much trouble at the moment, yes they have a few problems with the original Australian Airlines pilots and the Airbus but at least by joining them Regional pilots would have to be considered in the bigger scheme of things, right now we just don’t exist and as they only have to represent their members we will always be left out.
On another note I understand that Qantas will make a decision as to whether to stick with two AOC’s for Eastern and Sunstate before the end of the year or go to one, the two companies have the same management now so very little has to be done to make them one, the president has been set as to pilot seniority mergers so what’s left?
Do Sunstate pilots really believe that hordes of pilots will come to Qld and Take Their Commands? (Knowing that they have base protection) or is that just a filthy rumor…
Maybe this should be a thread in its self….
I believe AIPA would be the lesser of the two evils...
Why?
I don’t think the AFAP management is running the Union with the best interests of its members; more like the Union is taking its direction from its employees, its Industrial Advisers who have little or no negotiation skills.
I don’t think AIPA is in that much trouble at the moment, yes they have a few problems with the original Australian Airlines pilots and the Airbus but at least by joining them Regional pilots would have to be considered in the bigger scheme of things, right now we just don’t exist and as they only have to represent their members we will always be left out.
On another note I understand that Qantas will make a decision as to whether to stick with two AOC’s for Eastern and Sunstate before the end of the year or go to one, the two companies have the same management now so very little has to be done to make them one, the president has been set as to pilot seniority mergers so what’s left?
Do Sunstate pilots really believe that hordes of pilots will come to Qld and Take Their Commands? (Knowing that they have base protection) or is that just a filthy rumor…
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Spinout,
I spent a few days with some Sunstate crew this week, and it was very interesting. what a great bunch of blokes. How similar we are.....
IMHO, the reason that all this business about "taking jobs" is going on is because there's little or no (effective) communication between the pilot groups. All they (and we) hear is unsubstantiated scuttlebutt. I can assure you they are just like us.
An open and direct channel of communication needs to be established between the 2 pilot groups, and all bases WITHOUT AFAP intervention or "secret business".
An increasing number of Eastern crew agree with your assertion
Why don't we just pay the key players on the EAAPC for the work they do voluntarily and cut out the middleman (AFAP)? EAAPC have had a higher success rate industrially in the last 2 years than the AFAP has in over 10.
Out and about, more people are saying "Let's hit the AFAP in their hip pocket and take our $400k + per year somewhere that we'll get BETTER VALUE FOR MONEY." Meanwhile, the AFAP sits on its hands in it's ivory tower and sends out memo's and threats, like it will sue AIPA if we CHOOSE to go across.
3 words for the AFAP: FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION
Wake up AFAP! Start showing an interest in your customers at the QF regionals. YES, customers! You are VERY lucky that you have your MBF, as that is the only thing that keeps many of your members from deserting in droves.
Otherwise, ignore your customers at your peril........
Sorry 'bout the hijack...
I spent a few days with some Sunstate crew this week, and it was very interesting. what a great bunch of blokes. How similar we are.....
IMHO, the reason that all this business about "taking jobs" is going on is because there's little or no (effective) communication between the pilot groups. All they (and we) hear is unsubstantiated scuttlebutt. I can assure you they are just like us.
An open and direct channel of communication needs to be established between the 2 pilot groups, and all bases WITHOUT AFAP intervention or "secret business".
An increasing number of Eastern crew agree with your assertion
I don’t think the AFAP management is running the Union with the best interests of its members; more like the Union is taking its direction from its employees, its Industrial Advisers who have little or no negotiation skills.
Out and about, more people are saying "Let's hit the AFAP in their hip pocket and take our $400k + per year somewhere that we'll get BETTER VALUE FOR MONEY." Meanwhile, the AFAP sits on its hands in it's ivory tower and sends out memo's and threats, like it will sue AIPA if we CHOOSE to go across.
3 words for the AFAP: FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION
Wake up AFAP! Start showing an interest in your customers at the QF regionals. YES, customers! You are VERY lucky that you have your MBF, as that is the only thing that keeps many of your members from deserting in droves.
Otherwise, ignore your customers at your peril........
Sorry 'bout the hijack...