UA Plane forced to return to Sydney

[gaunty]

Desert Dingo

I'm sure you are right.

What I was really trying to say was that the second guessing by the AIPA rep on another operators procedures was innapropriate.
AND
3 hours fuel, maybe a red face and the rest is as nothing compared to the alternative.

I have been directly in the middle of a couple of these and they are not at all fun, you gotta give the man on the spot the "call".

They are still up there as one of my carriers of choice.

[Capt Claret]

I too though of Best on Board this morning when I heard what was written on the sick bag, though I only heard of the term a week or so ago.

I think it a little unfair to criticize some one who may have innocently written B.O.B., be it an F/A, or someone leaving a loved-one behind and doodling. I don't think I would have come up with BOB = Bomb On Board in a month of sundays.

[capt.cynical]

" B.O.B."

"Bimbo's Overly Bored"

[hoss]

and if you come across a sickbag with HOSS written on it, you'll know I've tried to put the hard word onto a female FA.

Heaps
Of
Sex
Sweetheart

[pug munter]

Given this is a rumour mill.......

Any truth to the story on ABC radio that there was a US VIP on board, a senior consular figure, who was removed immediately and separately from the pax?

Just repeating what I heard!

BOB= Bugger off Bush?

Pug

[Wirraway]

Thurs "Melbourne Age"


Boring Bob the Barfbag, who may have played a role in the bomb scare.
Picture:Reuters

Did a sick joke on sickbag ground flight?
By Brendan Nicholson, Farrah Tomazin, Daniel Ziffer
July 29, 2004

The decision to turn around an airliner 90 minutes into a Sydney-Los Angeles flight on Tuesday night may have been caused by a "gigantic misunderstanding", according to federal Transport Minister John Anderson - but it was the right decision, even if there was no bomb on board.

The pilot of United Airlines flight 840 decided to return to Sydney 500 nautical miles into the flight after cabin staff brought to his attention a sickbag found in the toilets with the letters "B O B" on it. "Bomb on board" was one meaning the letters may have carried - but the letters are also an in-joke among flight attendants meaning "best on board", referring to particularly attractive passengers.

Mr Anderson said he was sure the pilot would have taken that into account. "We cannot run risks," Mr Anderson said. "The pilot was right in my view not to run risks."

That view was seconded by Prime Minister John Howard. "I totally support the decision taken by the pilot," he said.

A United Airlines spokesman also backed the pilot's decision - which could have cost the airline up to $1 million. "The pilot made the right choice in doing what he did yesterday," the spokesman said.

Overnight accommodation in Sydney for the 246 passengers, including a senior US diplomat, plus 18 staff had to be found; 150,000 litres of extra fuel to that used in flight, plus any charges for an extra landing and take-off.

Another theory for the letters emerged yesterday, with reference to a comic website, www.vomitorium.co.uk, which details the imaginary travels of "Boring Bob the Barfbag".

The website features pictures of Bob the Barfbag as he travels the world - and opens the possibility that a passenger tried to share the joke by writing "Bob" on a sickbag and leaving it in the toilet for another to find.

Police have interviewed the crew and some passengers. A Federal Police spokeswoman said last night the investigation was continuing.

Mr Anderson said the mystery may never be unravelled. "It may very well even be that even now it may have been a genuine and serious misunderstanding. None the less someone has been irresponsible at least and horrendously selfish and stupid at worst, and every effort will be made to find the person responsible."

Mr Anderson and Sydney Airport Corporation chief executive Max Moore-Wilton both said the response showed that Australia was well prepared to deal with such an emergency - but that it offered lessons as well.

Airport security procedures are likely to be speeded up after security officials examine why passengers remained aboard the plane on the tarmac - at a distance from the terminal - for about 45 minutes after landing.


The wait was difficult for some passengers. Jeff Lupinacci, a 36-year-old project manager from Oregon, said: "People did question why we were being kept on the plane so long after it landed. If there's really a bomb on the plane, why were we just sitting there?"

Mr Anderson's spokesman said factors that were considered included the need to search the plane's doors and exterior for bombs, the need to preserve evidence and the possibility of passengers being injured if escape slides were used.

Airline spokesman Patrick Weaver explained that once the aircraft landed the pilot handed over authority to airport security.

The other issue was the vexed question of what to tell passengers in the air - which Mr Anderson said was under review.

That was an issue for passengers. Deborah Faulks, an Australian living in New York, was happy with the information provided. "I don't think (the amount of information given) was bad because I don't want to get people panicked or anything or cause hysteria."

Chris Cornelio, 19, of Kew, would have preferred more disclosure afterwards. After landing, "we were all locked in a room with all our bags, sniffer dogs came, and we had to write down all our names and bring our passports out. But they didn't say anything. It was a bit worrying."

Dr Jim McLennan, a senior research fellow at Latrobe University's School of Psychological Science, said the situation led to conflict between the right to know and the responsibility to protect life.

"That second principle of responsibility takes - rightly or wrongly - just simply takes absolute primacy. I imagine that he (the pilot) would have, in that situation, been very concerned about the possibility of panic amongst the passengers."

But Chris Poulson of California was not too bothered either way. "You can't be too safe. I didn't have any problem with it. It gave me an extra night in Sydney." Chris, and 245 others, finally left at 1.15pm yesterday.

And if any passenger was a fan of Bob the Barfbag, they weren't admitting to it.

==========================================

[amos2]

So, let me get this straight...

A 744 departs SYD for the USA, and about 90 minutes out a crew member/flight attendant/pax, visits the first class/business class/economy class toilet, and finds a sickbag/piece of paper, with my mates name Bob on it?

Some one decides that this is a bomb warning and declares an emergency. But, instead of landing at the nearest suitable, a decision is made to return to SYD.

So, it's not really an emergency is it?

However, on arrival at SYD a full scale emergency set up is established, so it is an emergency, right?

And this is confirmed when the airplane proceeds to the designated remote area well away from the terminal.

But then, the pax are kept on the airplane for 45 minutes, we are told, before they are deplaned, so it's not really an emergency after all, is it?

And then the Minister for Pretty Faces and Aviation appears on TV and goes into overkill mode telling us how it was a hoax but it had to be done this way. And we all know what that means in polly talk!

Shortly after this the Minister for Terror also goes on TV and says the same thing! And we all know what that means too!

But, you see, every body has missed the point.

This wasn't an emergency, is wasn't even a hoax, it was just the name Bob written on a sick bag!

Somebody please tell me this is not for real!

[Blip]

This is not for real.

Being serious now...

Airline spokesman Patrick Weaver explained that once the aircraft landed the pilot handed over authority to airport security.

I\'m surprised that it was even possible for the PIC to do that. Surely while the passengers and crew are still onboard, the PIC remains responsible for their safety and wellbeing.

[Woomera]

amos2 me old

I can't remember who first said it, but it is a fact that we are;

a world divided by a common language

hopefully the positive that will come out of this is a review of all the procedures, but I fear an overreaction too much the other way.

We are in a dangerous new world, where nothing is what it seems and it is equally dangerous to assume that anything is seemingly innocuous.

There is someone out there either feeling really really dumb or .............. Either way the terrorists had a win.

How do we deal with that?

[amos2]

Common sense comes to mind!

[Woomera]

Can't argue with that, but I suspect you, the UA Capt and I are refugees from a saner world where that was easier to work out than it is now.

Now about programming that VCR?

[Deaf]

Is it true that UA domestic carry money defined as "Bought On Board" and this is frequently carried in a (marked) chuck bag.

Possibly wrong forum, but not being UA

[LateNightOps]

The note was written in black texter with the capital letters BOB gone over many times.

It was also found in the drawer of the first class toliets... and a UA FA swore she checked it prior to departure.

There was one suspect, but with no proof nothing could be done and they were not detained.
(or maybe they could be sent to guantanimo bay for 2.5 years with no charges laid against them!!)

In any case it is troubling times we are living in... who really would want to risk calling a pranksters bluff?

LNO

[Kaptin M]

Under the circumstances - an American airline, departing Australia..a country that has within the last week or so, be warned by Muslim extremists that its streets will run red with blood, because of its involvement in the Iraq (Bush) invasion..and a sick bag with B O B scawled in texta, and left in a conspicuous place (rather than in the disposal bin) - must surely lead to only ONE conclusion. A threat to the safety of the aircraft, and its occupants.

For those who suggest that "BOB" might refer to something else, and try to make light of it, why not try this little experiment next time you're at an airport, and relate back to us how you fare.
When YOU are passing through security, either (a) carry a sick bag with BOB scawled on it, in a location where the security officers will see it;
or.
(b) when you are asked if you have any knives, etc with you, answer, "Bob".

(With some 25 years in airline flying, I have NEVER heard of bob being used in the context suggested here - and perhaps neither had this Captain, nor his crew!)

In my point of view, I would have expected no lesser decision than that made on the day, and as an earlier poster noted for another pilot to indicate that he would have made a different call, is entirely INAPPROPRIATE and totally UNPROFESSIONAL.

We (pilots) really are our own WORST enemies, aren't we?
Trying to put other pilots down, in the mis-perception that it will enhance oneself in others' eyes.
United we stand - divided we have fallen!

[Desert Dingo]

par·a·noid
1. Relating to, characteristic of, or affected with paranoia.
2. Exhibiting or characterized by extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others: a paranoid suspicion that a bomb may be on board the aircraft
n.
One affected with paranoia. (pr-noid)

As Amos 2 writes:

This wasn't an emergency, is wasn't even a hoax, it was just the name Bob written on a sick bag!
Somebody please tell me this is not for real!

It is game, set and match to the terrorists then.

[Kaptin M]

it was just the name Bob written on a sick bag!

That being the case, why didn't the author just put his hand up and say so?

par·a·noid

It's a shame the pax on the aircraft that were hijacked on Sept 11 weren't a little more "paranoid", isn't it.
If there are some who feel that the Captain of thie flight in topic over-reacted, and that they would have ignored the message, then, imho, the terrorists HAVE had a win.

Test (c), for the Dingoes out there;
Next time you fly on an aircraft, write BOB on a sick bag, and leave it in the toilet where it can be found, then when the questions are asked as to WHOM, and WHY, put your hand up and..................wear the consequences.

[HotDog]

par-a-noid

June 15th, 1972. VR-HFZ CV880M, disintegrated at FL290 over Pleiku in Vietnam and crashed into the jungle; due to a BOB. 81 lives perished, including some close friends and colleagues.

Desert Dingo, have you ever suffered the loss of friends and colleagues in an air crash before?

Full marks to the UA captain for a professional command decision.

[Chris Higgins]

Yep! Gotta agree with Kaptin M on this one. Someone starts identifying a security threat onboard and are you suggesting as pilots we just ignore it?

I can look down either one of my shoulders while in uniform and count...1,2,3,4 reasons to divert and land anytime safety is questioned.

It's a license to fly an aircraft...not a license to kill!

[amos2]

I wouldn't suggest for one moment that a security threat should be ignored, but just what security threat are we talking about here?

I would also think that someone other than the Captain made this decision!

[amos2]

"I can look down either one of my shoulders while in uniform and count...1,2,3,4 reasons to divert and land anytime safety is questioned.
It's a license to fly an aircraft...not a license to kill!"

...and, I gotta tell you Chris...love all this 007 talk!

You know, you are rapidly becoming the US of A's answer to Dickie Smith!