Virgin Blue wants US route: report
Thread Starter
Virgin Blue wants US route: report
Here's an article taken from the e*trade website as of this morning.
Virgin Blue wants US route: report
07/07/2004 09:47:00 AM
Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd wants to compete with Qantas Airways Ltd on its highly protected route from Australia to the west coast of the United States, it was reported.
Virgin Blue has applied to the federal government to fly to Los Angeles and San Francisco, the first by the budget short-haul carrier to become a long-haul operator.
The Australian Financial Review said the plan involves the creation of a new international airline that would be 51 per cent owned by Virgin Blue.
Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic, which wants to fly the lucrative London to Australia by the end of the year, could be a minor investor in the new airline.
Virgin Blue wants US route: report
07/07/2004 09:47:00 AM
Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd wants to compete with Qantas Airways Ltd on its highly protected route from Australia to the west coast of the United States, it was reported.
Virgin Blue has applied to the federal government to fly to Los Angeles and San Francisco, the first by the budget short-haul carrier to become a long-haul operator.
The Australian Financial Review said the plan involves the creation of a new international airline that would be 51 per cent owned by Virgin Blue.
Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic, which wants to fly the lucrative London to Australia by the end of the year, could be a minor investor in the new airline.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Great news for both the travelling public and those wanting an expansion in pilot job opportunities.
Have to choose the B777, the finest medium to long (or ultra long with 777-200LR coming) series of aircraft ever conceived and built.
On the downside though, no doubt QF already have a team of lawyers and PR spin doctors down in CBR explaining why this competition wouldn't be in the national interest.
Safe flying
Have to choose the B777, the finest medium to long (or ultra long with 777-200LR coming) series of aircraft ever conceived and built.
On the downside though, no doubt QF already have a team of lawyers and PR spin doctors down in CBR explaining why this competition wouldn't be in the national interest.
Safe flying
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AFP
Wednesday July 7, 10:52 AM
Virgin Blue considering challenging Qantas on Australia-US route
Discount airline Virgin Blue said it was considering flying from Australia to the US west coast, directly challenging flag carrier Qantas' monopoly on one of its most lucrative routes.
Virgin Blue spokeswoman Amanda Bolger said the idea was "embryonic" at this stage but the expansion was definitely on the airline's agenda.
"We haven't lodged a formal application with the government yet but we have expressed interest," she told AFP. "You have to get the ball rolling early with these things because they have such a long lead-in time."
Bolger said the idea of flying to the US west coast was one of about 15 concepts generated by a business development unit that Virgin Blue set up earlier this year.
"This one of the the long-term possibilities it's come up with, were also looking at opportunities in China, in India, were considering a lot of ideas," she said.
Flying to the west coast would ratchet up the already intense rivalry between Qantas and Virgin Blue, the low-cost airline that has snatched more than 30 percent of the Australian domestic market since it was set up by British tycoon Richard Branson in 2001.
Qantas hit back earlier this year with the launch of its own discount airline Jetstar.
The latest Virgin Blue proposal would see the airline taking on Qantas head-to-head in the international market for the first time.
It would also involve the airline moving away from its highly successful no-frills formula into full-service international flights and would require major investment in about six long-haul aircraft such as Boeing 747s or 777s.
The Australian government could also expect sharp questioning from Singapore if it gave Virgin Blue permission to fly the Australia-Los Angeles route.
Singapore Airlines has long sought to have the route included under an "open skies" arrangement with Australia but has been frustrated by concerted lobbying by Qantas in Canberra.
Australian officials most recently refused to break the Qantas monopoly last September, saying the airline industry had not yet recovered sufficiently from shocks such as SARS and the Iraq war.
Qantas shares were down eight cents or 2.25 percent at 3.47 dollars (2.47 US) and Virgin Blue was down one cent of 0.5 percent at 2.00 dollars in early trading.
Wednesday July 7, 10:52 AM
AFP
============================================
Wednesday July 7, 10:52 AM
Virgin Blue considering challenging Qantas on Australia-US route
Discount airline Virgin Blue said it was considering flying from Australia to the US west coast, directly challenging flag carrier Qantas' monopoly on one of its most lucrative routes.
Virgin Blue spokeswoman Amanda Bolger said the idea was "embryonic" at this stage but the expansion was definitely on the airline's agenda.
"We haven't lodged a formal application with the government yet but we have expressed interest," she told AFP. "You have to get the ball rolling early with these things because they have such a long lead-in time."
Bolger said the idea of flying to the US west coast was one of about 15 concepts generated by a business development unit that Virgin Blue set up earlier this year.
"This one of the the long-term possibilities it's come up with, were also looking at opportunities in China, in India, were considering a lot of ideas," she said.
Flying to the west coast would ratchet up the already intense rivalry between Qantas and Virgin Blue, the low-cost airline that has snatched more than 30 percent of the Australian domestic market since it was set up by British tycoon Richard Branson in 2001.
Qantas hit back earlier this year with the launch of its own discount airline Jetstar.
The latest Virgin Blue proposal would see the airline taking on Qantas head-to-head in the international market for the first time.
It would also involve the airline moving away from its highly successful no-frills formula into full-service international flights and would require major investment in about six long-haul aircraft such as Boeing 747s or 777s.
The Australian government could also expect sharp questioning from Singapore if it gave Virgin Blue permission to fly the Australia-Los Angeles route.
Singapore Airlines has long sought to have the route included under an "open skies" arrangement with Australia but has been frustrated by concerted lobbying by Qantas in Canberra.
Australian officials most recently refused to break the Qantas monopoly last September, saying the airline industry had not yet recovered sufficiently from shocks such as SARS and the Iraq war.
Qantas shares were down eight cents or 2.25 percent at 3.47 dollars (2.47 US) and Virgin Blue was down one cent of 0.5 percent at 2.00 dollars in early trading.
Wednesday July 7, 10:52 AM
AFP
============================================
Thread Starter
Supposing that they do actually go for the 777, how much will the endorsement set the guys & girls back?
And how many NZ$ will they be paid for the privilege of working for the great man himself....?
Lastly, how long will it take them to get their ETOPs approval sorted....?
We'll no doubt see Godfrey doing some of these -
- in the press in regards to this latest project.
And how many NZ$ will they be paid for the privilege of working for the great man himself....?
Lastly, how long will it take them to get their ETOPs approval sorted....?
We'll no doubt see Godfrey doing some of these -
- in the press in regards to this latest project.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess that may answer my question on another thread about VB breaking from their business model and getting another aircraft type.
QF shares down 11 cents today... time to go short again...yup yup yup....
Oh, but it is fun and games in the airline industry....
QF shares down 11 cents today... time to go short again...yup yup yup....
Oh, but it is fun and games in the airline industry....
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Long time coming I would have thought.
Ok, let's say the the EU turn down HK to OZ - likely. Then wouldn't the answer be to:
1. Have an Australian airline that goes from BNE/SYD to HK and link up with Virgin Atlantic.
2. Merge Pacific Blue in VB - where are the advantages of the AUS/NZ agreement now anyway.
3. Continue to use the Pacific Blue brand as the international carrier to keep SQ happy (Can't use a Virgin brand on interantional ops without approval). Why take on SQ - you only have to spilt the profit anyway and since they feed into both ends (Virgin Express, VB, Virgin USA) they (VB management) will see this as unfair and they already have the equity required. Plus Dick and SQ have to split 49 percent - neither party likes to lose control.
4. Use Airbus A330 to HK (no ETOPs and no four engines for long haul) and A340 to San Fran that way there is synergies with Virgin Atlantic - pilot, FA and engineering training.
5. The start-up company would hire externally to VB to eliminate re-training costs.
Disadvantages; every paragraph of their propectus said, 'low-cost model this, low cost model that'. If it fails the shareholders will be out for boardroom blood.
Just a few thoughts...
Ok, let's say the the EU turn down HK to OZ - likely. Then wouldn't the answer be to:
1. Have an Australian airline that goes from BNE/SYD to HK and link up with Virgin Atlantic.
2. Merge Pacific Blue in VB - where are the advantages of the AUS/NZ agreement now anyway.
3. Continue to use the Pacific Blue brand as the international carrier to keep SQ happy (Can't use a Virgin brand on interantional ops without approval). Why take on SQ - you only have to spilt the profit anyway and since they feed into both ends (Virgin Express, VB, Virgin USA) they (VB management) will see this as unfair and they already have the equity required. Plus Dick and SQ have to split 49 percent - neither party likes to lose control.
4. Use Airbus A330 to HK (no ETOPs and no four engines for long haul) and A340 to San Fran that way there is synergies with Virgin Atlantic - pilot, FA and engineering training.
5. The start-up company would hire externally to VB to eliminate re-training costs.
Disadvantages; every paragraph of their propectus said, 'low-cost model this, low cost model that'. If it fails the shareholders will be out for boardroom blood.
Just a few thoughts...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bloomberg
Virgin Blue Eyes U.S. Routes to Challenge Qantas (Update3)
July 7 (Bloomberg) -- Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd., which grabbed a third of Australia's domestic air-travel market in four years, may start flights to the U.S., challenging bigger rival Qantas Airways Ltd. on its most profitable routes.
Adding Australia-U.S. routes was among options proposed by Virgin Blue's business development team, spokeswoman Amanda Bolger said from the airline's Brisbane base. "It's a project we're working on,'' Bolger said in an interview. Shares of Sydney- based Qantas, Australia's biggest airline, fell 2.8 percent to A$3.45 at the 4 p.m. market close in Sydney.
The Australia-U.S. service "is a very profitable leg for Qantas,'' said George Clapham, who helps manage the equivalent of $310 million at ABN Amro Asset Management in Sydney. "Qantas has had high load factors on the route and competition has been limited.''
Adding the flights would give Virgin Blue a share of the A$1 billion in sales the route generated, according to an April estimate by ING Financial Markets' analyst Philip Wickham. Sydney- based Qantas and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines are the only two carriers that fly directly between Australia and the U.S. Hawaiian Airlines Inc. and Air New Zealand Ltd. fly the route, stopping over in Honolulu and Auckland.
"Whether it comes from Virgin Blue or someone else, it will impact on the profitability of that business,'' should another airline begin competing with Qantas between Australia and the U.S., Clapham said. Qantas has increased the number of flights to Los Angeles to 37 times a week to meet increased demand.
The Australia-U.S. route is Qantas's most profitable, generating more than A$1.5 billion of sales with more than 25 percent of profit margin, said Merrill Lynch & Co. analysts Simon Gresham and Trent Barnett in a November 28 note to clients.
Flight Attendants
Shares of Virgin Blue have fallen 17 percent since the stock was sold to investors in December last year. Qantas shares have gained 0.3 percent over the same period. Virgin Blue shares fell 1 cent to A$2 today.
Qantas's share price has also been hurt by a possible strike that international flight attendants may hold after Dec. 18. The attendants want to stop the airline from basing another 400 cabin crew in London, a relocation aimed at saving Qantas A$18 million a year.
The success of Virgin Blue in Australia's domestic aviation market could be repeated in an international venture, ABN Amro's Clapham said. "It's probably worth them pursuing this opportunity,'' he said.
Virgin Blue Chief Executive Brett Godfrey plans to add Pacific Island destinations such as Fiji, Vanuatu and the Cook Islands to routes flown by the airline's Pacific Blue international unit this year and has said he's considering a low- cost carrier in Asia.
Virgin Blue started with two planes plying Australia's domestic routes in August 2000.
Long-haul routes such as the Australia-U.S. service look increasingly attractive as an increasing number of airlines fly shorter distances. On the Australia-New Zealand route, Emirates, Singapore Airlines Ltd. and Pacific Blue are competing with Qantas and Air New Zealand.
New Airline
Virgin Blue hasn't yet applied to the Australian government's International Air Services Commission for air rights to the U.S.
"We've expressed interest in doing so,'' Bolger said.
The Commission, which is responsible for granting air rights from Australia, had been informed of Virgin Blue's long-term operational plans but hadn't received an application for air rights to the U.S., the government body said in a statement e- mailed to Bloomberg News.
"Until such time as an application has been lodged with us, we cannot speculate on their reported plans,'' the Commission said in its statement.
Virgin Blue's U.S. routes would be operated by a new airline 51 percent owned by Virgin Blue, the Australian Financial Review reported, citing unidentified documents. Bolger declined to comment on whether a new airline was under consideration.
"We've talked about Asia, we've talked about things like frequent-flier programs -- these are the things the business unit was set up to do, to identify potential growth opportunities,'' Bolger said.
Virgin Blue today announced it will double the number of flights between Melbourne and the Sunshine Coast in Queensland to 14 a week by September.
To contact the reporter on this story:
Barbara Adam in Melbourne at [email protected]
==============================================
Virgin Blue Eyes U.S. Routes to Challenge Qantas (Update3)
July 7 (Bloomberg) -- Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd., which grabbed a third of Australia's domestic air-travel market in four years, may start flights to the U.S., challenging bigger rival Qantas Airways Ltd. on its most profitable routes.
Adding Australia-U.S. routes was among options proposed by Virgin Blue's business development team, spokeswoman Amanda Bolger said from the airline's Brisbane base. "It's a project we're working on,'' Bolger said in an interview. Shares of Sydney- based Qantas, Australia's biggest airline, fell 2.8 percent to A$3.45 at the 4 p.m. market close in Sydney.
The Australia-U.S. service "is a very profitable leg for Qantas,'' said George Clapham, who helps manage the equivalent of $310 million at ABN Amro Asset Management in Sydney. "Qantas has had high load factors on the route and competition has been limited.''
Adding the flights would give Virgin Blue a share of the A$1 billion in sales the route generated, according to an April estimate by ING Financial Markets' analyst Philip Wickham. Sydney- based Qantas and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines are the only two carriers that fly directly between Australia and the U.S. Hawaiian Airlines Inc. and Air New Zealand Ltd. fly the route, stopping over in Honolulu and Auckland.
"Whether it comes from Virgin Blue or someone else, it will impact on the profitability of that business,'' should another airline begin competing with Qantas between Australia and the U.S., Clapham said. Qantas has increased the number of flights to Los Angeles to 37 times a week to meet increased demand.
The Australia-U.S. route is Qantas's most profitable, generating more than A$1.5 billion of sales with more than 25 percent of profit margin, said Merrill Lynch & Co. analysts Simon Gresham and Trent Barnett in a November 28 note to clients.
Flight Attendants
Shares of Virgin Blue have fallen 17 percent since the stock was sold to investors in December last year. Qantas shares have gained 0.3 percent over the same period. Virgin Blue shares fell 1 cent to A$2 today.
Qantas's share price has also been hurt by a possible strike that international flight attendants may hold after Dec. 18. The attendants want to stop the airline from basing another 400 cabin crew in London, a relocation aimed at saving Qantas A$18 million a year.
The success of Virgin Blue in Australia's domestic aviation market could be repeated in an international venture, ABN Amro's Clapham said. "It's probably worth them pursuing this opportunity,'' he said.
Virgin Blue Chief Executive Brett Godfrey plans to add Pacific Island destinations such as Fiji, Vanuatu and the Cook Islands to routes flown by the airline's Pacific Blue international unit this year and has said he's considering a low- cost carrier in Asia.
Virgin Blue started with two planes plying Australia's domestic routes in August 2000.
Long-haul routes such as the Australia-U.S. service look increasingly attractive as an increasing number of airlines fly shorter distances. On the Australia-New Zealand route, Emirates, Singapore Airlines Ltd. and Pacific Blue are competing with Qantas and Air New Zealand.
New Airline
Virgin Blue hasn't yet applied to the Australian government's International Air Services Commission for air rights to the U.S.
"We've expressed interest in doing so,'' Bolger said.
The Commission, which is responsible for granting air rights from Australia, had been informed of Virgin Blue's long-term operational plans but hadn't received an application for air rights to the U.S., the government body said in a statement e- mailed to Bloomberg News.
"Until such time as an application has been lodged with us, we cannot speculate on their reported plans,'' the Commission said in its statement.
Virgin Blue's U.S. routes would be operated by a new airline 51 percent owned by Virgin Blue, the Australian Financial Review reported, citing unidentified documents. Bolger declined to comment on whether a new airline was under consideration.
"We've talked about Asia, we've talked about things like frequent-flier programs -- these are the things the business unit was set up to do, to identify potential growth opportunities,'' Bolger said.
Virgin Blue today announced it will double the number of flights between Melbourne and the Sunshine Coast in Queensland to 14 a week by September.
To contact the reporter on this story:
Barbara Adam in Melbourne at [email protected]
==============================================
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,976
Received 104 Likes
on
59 Posts
The _Cutest_of_Borg;
Mate, do you get the feeling that the ancient Chinese curse repeated below could not be more applicable here?
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Oh, but it is fun and games etc
May you live in interesting times.
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting times?... if that is true then the Australian aviation scene has been cursed for many years now.
I can't help but get the feeling that this is some kind of spoiling manoeuvre by VB, shades of retailiation for Jet*? You cr@p in our nest, we will cr@p in yours?
maybe..
I'd would be interested to see how they would get slots in SFO, unless they use some held by Virgin Atlantic. Last I heard QF were number 56 in line for a slot there. That was pre-Sep 11 though.
I can't help but get the feeling that this is some kind of spoiling manoeuvre by VB, shades of retailiation for Jet*? You cr@p in our nest, we will cr@p in yours?
maybe..
I'd would be interested to see how they would get slots in SFO, unless they use some held by Virgin Atlantic. Last I heard QF were number 56 in line for a slot there. That was pre-Sep 11 though.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: blue earth
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will there be another airline called Virgin Pacific set up then to fly the Pacific route. But sound like there is a bigger part of the Virgin network as San Francisco is going to be the base of Virgin USA.
Why is QF interested in going back to SFO when they moved out off there 10 years ago even selling the airbridge and gate in a fire sale. Sound like qf management still havent there lessons ??
Why is QF interested in going back to SFO when they moved out off there 10 years ago even selling the airbridge and gate in a fire sale. Sound like qf management still havent there lessons ??
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd would be interested to see how they would get slots in SFO, unless they use some held by Virgin Atlantic
SFO is not slot-controlled. AFAIK there is nothing stopping QF starting service to SFO, apart from their own desire to concentrate on LAX.
SFO is not slot-controlled. AFAIK there is nothing stopping QF starting service to SFO, apart from their own desire to concentrate on LAX.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take a number and join the queue Godfrey ...
SQ, EK, and CX are way ahead of DJ in lobbying for fifth freedom rights from Oz to US of A ..
This is one battleground where DJ's famous whingeing and whining is not going to get them the results they want - you are up against the big boys on this one!!
SQ, EK, and CX are way ahead of DJ in lobbying for fifth freedom rights from Oz to US of A ..
This is one battleground where DJ's famous whingeing and whining is not going to get them the results they want - you are up against the big boys on this one!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
I though SFO was slot controlled but could be wrong.
QF management unbelievably pulled out of there in the 90's only to hand their competitor a monopoly on the SFO-SYD route. They were trying to get back in there in the late 90's but no avail.
So what are VB going to offer on this route?? Dodgey seats and no inflight entertainment aren't going to work on a 13 hour sector. So essentionally they are going to be just like everyone else. In flight entertainment, business class, first class, food, etc etc etc
Not quite sure what the point of this is for Virgin Australia. Why not just try and get Virgin Atlantic to do it, at least then you'll have a world wide product.
QF management unbelievably pulled out of there in the 90's only to hand their competitor a monopoly on the SFO-SYD route. They were trying to get back in there in the late 90's but no avail.
So what are VB going to offer on this route?? Dodgey seats and no inflight entertainment aren't going to work on a 13 hour sector. So essentionally they are going to be just like everyone else. In flight entertainment, business class, first class, food, etc etc etc
Not quite sure what the point of this is for Virgin Australia. Why not just try and get Virgin Atlantic to do it, at least then you'll have a world wide product.
