Virgin's Presurisation
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Virgin's Presurisation
I have just seen my G.P. He had 4 passengers from Virgin with severe ear problems involving bleeding from the inner ear over the last 6 months. He was interested in whether Virgin do anything diferent. As a longtime G.P he was curious whether Virgin do anything diferent? Any comments?
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What sort of question is this?
B737-NG pilots do not operate the aircraft pressurisation controller independently; they simply enter the CRUISE and LANDING ALT.
The pressurisation controller calculates when to climb and or descent.
Ask your self this, if it was a VB fault, then why haven’t they had complaints before this one.
B737-NG pilots do not operate the aircraft pressurisation controller independently; they simply enter the CRUISE and LANDING ALT.
The pressurisation controller calculates when to climb and or descent.
Ask your self this, if it was a VB fault, then why haven’t they had complaints before this one.
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Well Virgin certainly has a policy of flying higher. Not sure if this has anything to do with it.
Last sunday night paxed Virgin BNE CBR. QF and DJ left almost same time. DJ arrived CBR 15 min after QF after flying in the high
30's.
cheers
Last sunday night paxed Virgin BNE CBR. QF and DJ left almost same time. DJ arrived CBR 15 min after QF after flying in the high
30's.
cheers
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jindavik
I believe I have answered your question.
A.H.
Don’t be so touchy; I am not angry at jindavik, but at question asked. Every time an inexperienced passenger has a problem, it always becomes the operator’s fault.
Not long ago, a family member called me and advised me that she would never fly VB again. When I asked why she said, “The cabin crew made her return to her seat while she was in the toilet. They then refused to warm her babies milk bottle,” I then asked her what was happening at the time she said, “The aircraft was on approach, but didn’t land for at least 3 minutes.”
As far as I am concerned, the crew did their job.
I believe I have answered your question.
A.H.
Don’t be so touchy; I am not angry at jindavik, but at question asked. Every time an inexperienced passenger has a problem, it always becomes the operator’s fault.
Not long ago, a family member called me and advised me that she would never fly VB again. When I asked why she said, “The cabin crew made her return to her seat while she was in the toilet. They then refused to warm her babies milk bottle,” I then asked her what was happening at the time she said, “The aircraft was on approach, but didn’t land for at least 3 minutes.”
As far as I am concerned, the crew did their job.
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Props I am not a pax. I have 10000 hrs with jet time. I was just wondering wether you guys tweek your presurisation system any diferent? To be honest I was intrigued by my Doc's question.
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Is this for real? Perhaps it’s not just a stab at VB. If not;
The B737NG Pressurization system works as follows (as per Vol 2 2.40);
“In the AUTO or ALTN mode, the pressurization control panel is used to preset two altitudes into the auto controllers:
▪ FLT ALT (flight or cruise altitude).
▪LAND ALT (Landing or destination airport altitude).”
So as you can see it’s as simple as that. This is verbatim from the Boeing manual and cannot be “Tweaked” in any GA’ish kind of way. You would only use Manual in non-normal situations. Hence I guess QF NG’s must have problems as well considering the aircraft come from the same factory and use the same pressurization system from Mr. Boeing!!!
Perhaps DJ encounters some mysterious atmospheric anomaly with their pressurization system, which the incredibly talented QF 737 pilots manage to avoid on every sector? Jindavik I have bothered to provide you with the facts above assuming your question is legitimate, no matter how foolish, nay ignorant it portrays you. If you are just trying to learn, then I apologize if I may seem rude, but your post comes across as just another VB bashing. Might I add the old sh!t heaps on the 737 fleet cannot fly as high as DJ, as they are Australian Airlines relics called B733 and B734
which cannot fly as high as the NG. The QF NGs as stated above have the same pressurization systems as DJ.
The B737NG Pressurization system works as follows (as per Vol 2 2.40);
“In the AUTO or ALTN mode, the pressurization control panel is used to preset two altitudes into the auto controllers:
▪ FLT ALT (flight or cruise altitude).
▪LAND ALT (Landing or destination airport altitude).”
So as you can see it’s as simple as that. This is verbatim from the Boeing manual and cannot be “Tweaked” in any GA’ish kind of way. You would only use Manual in non-normal situations. Hence I guess QF NG’s must have problems as well considering the aircraft come from the same factory and use the same pressurization system from Mr. Boeing!!!
Perhaps DJ encounters some mysterious atmospheric anomaly with their pressurization system, which the incredibly talented QF 737 pilots manage to avoid on every sector? Jindavik I have bothered to provide you with the facts above assuming your question is legitimate, no matter how foolish, nay ignorant it portrays you. If you are just trying to learn, then I apologize if I may seem rude, but your post comes across as just another VB bashing. Might I add the old sh!t heaps on the 737 fleet cannot fly as high as DJ, as they are Australian Airlines relics called B733 and B734
which cannot fly as high as the NG. The QF NGs as stated above have the same pressurization systems as DJ.
Bank Angle 50,
Please calm down. It sounded like and entirely reasonable question to me, and now Dehav says that there may be a difference between DJs and QFs jets.
For the more constrained on this thread, since I don't fly 737s (well some people say I do...), how does the rate thingee work? Is it possible to descent reallt "late" and catch the cabin, or at least "make" the cabin rate increase above the normal amount?
Please calm down. It sounded like and entirely reasonable question to me, and now Dehav says that there may be a difference between DJs and QFs jets.
For the more constrained on this thread, since I don't fly 737s (well some people say I do...), how does the rate thingee work? Is it possible to descent reallt "late" and catch the cabin, or at least "make" the cabin rate increase above the normal amount?
Not trying to rubbish earlier comments but 500 (sea level) feet per minute cabin rate of change can be a bit savage on the ear drums during descent if you have even a slight head cold.
I believe that this figure is generally accepted as the upper range limit when descending non-pressurised types. 300 fpm cabin rate is much kinder on the ears and provoke fewer complaints. With a full aircraft and someone has an ear problem on descent, I doubt that the FA's would be aware of it unless the individual specifically made an issue of it after landing? And with the rushing between flights to change aircraft, would an FA have time or inclination to formally report the problem on paper?
I believe that this figure is generally accepted as the upper range limit when descending non-pressurised types. 300 fpm cabin rate is much kinder on the ears and provoke fewer complaints. With a full aircraft and someone has an ear problem on descent, I doubt that the FA's would be aware of it unless the individual specifically made an issue of it after landing? And with the rushing between flights to change aircraft, would an FA have time or inclination to formally report the problem on paper?
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It may not even be the fault of the Aircraft or Airline.
It MAY be the passengers.
I had exactly the same thing happen to me a few years ago when working Overseas with an A300-600.
I was away from main base for a few days and had a cold/flu that was getting worse by the day, when the time came to return to main base I just wanted to get home, however on that "normal" flight back to New York I had exactly the same thing happen to me, and couldn't fly again for over a month.
It was NOT the fault of the Aircraft, Airline or our Pilots, in hindsight I should not have flown in that condition.
It MAY be the passengers.
I had exactly the same thing happen to me a few years ago when working Overseas with an A300-600.
I was away from main base for a few days and had a cold/flu that was getting worse by the day, when the time came to return to main base I just wanted to get home, however on that "normal" flight back to New York I had exactly the same thing happen to me, and couldn't fly again for over a month.
It was NOT the fault of the Aircraft, Airline or our Pilots, in hindsight I should not have flown in that condition.
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Just a thought - DJ did (and maybe still does) have a run of first time flyers amongst its regular pax. I can imagine them enthusiastically poking fingers in their ears on arrival, popping their ears for the next 3 days, then later telling a quack they've recently been on a sub-orbital ride to Sydney.
If I recall correctly (when not distracted by a straining blouse), DJ's pre-takeoff cabin safety brief says "... the cabin is pressurised for your comfort .... ".
I guess it's worded thus, so those first timers don't get too anxious?
If I recall correctly (when not distracted by a straining blouse), DJ's pre-takeoff cabin safety brief says "... the cabin is pressurised for your comfort .... ".
I guess it's worded thus, so those first timers don't get too anxious?
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bankangle50 This was my first posting here. It was not a wind up. It was not an attempt to stick it to V.B Just a legitimate question. You sound a little paranoid.To everyone else thanks.
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Dehavillanddriver, I have search the manual and cannot find any [OPTION--……….] in Air Systems. I would be interested to know if infact such option exists. When the aircraft descends 0.25psi below the selected FLT ALT, the cabin begins a proportional descent to slightly below the selected LAND ALT. There’s no fixed rate (Feet per min) as such, like on Turbo props. The only option is a High Altitude Landing System, which nobody would buy in Oz.
Normally any option is stated clearly in Vol 2. How would they get around the max diff of 9.1 psi if such an option exists? They would need a much lower Cabin ALT, hence higher diff to use a lower rate during descent. Not possible????
The classics (which fly lower) use a lower differential than the NG. The NG uses 8.35psid above F370, 7.80psid F280-370, and 7.45psi <F280. So perhaps pax notice the lower diff on the classic. Its really not that much.
I believe the NG’s are the same, and its just the pax.
Jindavik , you said you had 10000 hrs on jets, hence I thought your question was a joke
.
Normally any option is stated clearly in Vol 2. How would they get around the max diff of 9.1 psi if such an option exists? They would need a much lower Cabin ALT, hence higher diff to use a lower rate during descent. Not possible????
The classics (which fly lower) use a lower differential than the NG. The NG uses 8.35psid above F370, 7.80psid F280-370, and 7.45psi <F280. So perhaps pax notice the lower diff on the classic.
Its really not that much.I believe the NG’s are the same, and its just the pax.
Jindavik , you said you had 10000 hrs on jets, hence I thought your question was a joke
.
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Jindavik, it is possible to tweak the pressurisation in a NG simply by setting a different altitude to that you are cruising at - that simply tricks the auto controller. What cannot be done is change the programmed ROC or ROD, or the maximum differential pressure, and those would be the most likely causes of ear damage.
To summarise that - it is very unlikely that flying with VB contributed to your Docs customers complaints. The pressurisation systems simply don't allow it. Same goes for QF's 737's.
To summarise that - it is very unlikely that flying with VB contributed to your Docs customers complaints. The pressurisation systems simply don't allow it. Same goes for QF's 737's.
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Thanks Yorik. If for some reason you were held at a high level until close to the field and require a high rate of descent does that mean the controller will exceed 300/500 fpm or you catch the cabin?
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Some people may find this of interest, many others do.
It is NOT an advertisement, and I have absolutely nothing to do with it.
It is a wealth of info on B737s.
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It is NOT an advertisement, and I have absolutely nothing to do with it.
It is a wealth of info on B737s.
web site