Cabin door ripped off Jetstar plane, passengers stranded
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Always ready to load the blame on to the Chinese (sorry guys, just a convenient name) "Sum Por Kun"!!
WHY are cel phones (portable hand-phones) not allowed to be used on board aircraft??
Who's to say that "Sum Kun" did NOT turn OFF his phone/use his phone on board the affected aircraft, thereby activating the remotely controlled push-back thingamey??
The first rule for Aussie males now seems to be "DENY.............DENY............DENY!!".
Why should THIS one be any different, when people are looking to lop heads to save their own??!!
WHY are cel phones (portable hand-phones) not allowed to be used on board aircraft??
Who's to say that "Sum Kun" did NOT turn OFF his phone/use his phone on board the affected aircraft, thereby activating the remotely controlled push-back thingamey??
The first rule for Aussie males now seems to be "DENY.............DENY............DENY!!".
Why should THIS one be any different, when people are looking to lop heads to save their own??!!
I have worked with the pushback operator in question for 4 years and spoke to him today. Indeed it was a case of wrong remate control box. He is an experianced and competent pusback driver with probably over 1,000 pushbacks + over the last 4 years without incident, mostly on the 717 and 727. he is a good operator and knows his stuff.
Though, it didnt stop us all giving him a jolly good razz about it..........will take him a long time to live it down.
I must take the papers article to task, the new Express Ground Handling blokes recieved comprehensive training that the guys in my company( the one that starts with A....) could only look on with envy, so much so most of our guys are looking to defect to Express.
Though, it didnt stop us all giving him a jolly good razz about it..........will take him a long time to live it down.
I must take the papers article to task, the new Express Ground Handling blokes recieved comprehensive training that the guys in my company( the one that starts with A....) could only look on with envy, so much so most of our guys are looking to defect to Express.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Though, it didnt stop us all giving him a jolly good razz about it..........will take him a long time to live it down.
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yeah let's all give him a good razz about it.
Didn't this happen at Ansett once? Right here in ML? Some tug driver pushed the nose gear through the bulkhead on a 737(?) and it collapsed at the gate with a load of punters on board.
The "poor bloke" went home and crashed his car on the way out. Then blamed Ansett for his traumas. No sacking for incompetence, probably just pay-outs for trauma and Ansett training and HR "failures" under threat of union action for "heavy-handed standover tactics". Meanwhile a jet sitting on it's arse losing (even more) money and two drivers being grilled in the basement. (in hindsight the bloke was probably another "plant" like Trevor...)
But let's all hope this guy who pushed the wrong button and had a UD in SY the other day is promoted or something.
Next time I'm in the SIM I'm gonna try the equivalent of that blunder, see if I still pass. Will advise.........
Didn't this happen at Ansett once? Right here in ML? Some tug driver pushed the nose gear through the bulkhead on a 737(?) and it collapsed at the gate with a load of punters on board.
The "poor bloke" went home and crashed his car on the way out. Then blamed Ansett for his traumas. No sacking for incompetence, probably just pay-outs for trauma and Ansett training and HR "failures" under threat of union action for "heavy-handed standover tactics". Meanwhile a jet sitting on it's arse losing (even more) money and two drivers being grilled in the basement. (in hindsight the bloke was probably another "plant" like Trevor...)
But let's all hope this guy who pushed the wrong button and had a UD in SY the other day is promoted or something.
Next time I'm in the SIM I'm gonna try the equivalent of that blunder, see if I still pass. Will advise.........
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Itchybum, steady on. You've never made a mistake? Not a fan of the "Reason Model" of incident investigation? No?
If a guy who has 4 years experience and 1000+ pushbacks has an accident, probably the reason is a little more complicated than incompetence. His record shows that he isn't.
Ever heard the term pilot error. They don't use it anymore. Its because incidents and accidents are caused by a myriad of reasons including training deficiencies, system deficiencies, human limitations, etc. Don't judge the man when you are not in possession of all the facts.
Remember, there but for the grace of the aviation god, go you.
If a guy who has 4 years experience and 1000+ pushbacks has an accident, probably the reason is a little more complicated than incompetence. His record shows that he isn't.
Ever heard the term pilot error. They don't use it anymore. Its because incidents and accidents are caused by a myriad of reasons including training deficiencies, system deficiencies, human limitations, etc. Don't judge the man when you are not in possession of all the facts.
Remember, there but for the grace of the aviation god, go you.
But Jetstar's media manager, Simon Westaway, denied this. He said that maintenance staff were well trained and passengers' safety was a priority.
"The training on these units is not two hours," Mr Westaway said. "The training, which consists of both practical training and classroom briefing... is the equivalent of up to one week's training."
"The training on these units is not two hours," Mr Westaway said. "The training, which consists of both practical training and classroom briefing... is the equivalent of up to one week's training."
You might think it to be equivalent to one week's training - but how long actually was it? Was it 5 days of 9-5 training?
How can any other length of time be equivalent to a specified length of time?
if it was a week, then say it was a week.
WTF can't people call a spade a spade these days?
[/RANT]
CS in a midnight tirade against circumlocution.
Edit by W to add the appropriate /
Last edited by Woomera; 23rd Jun 2004 at 00:11.
OZgrade 3,
thanks for providing the real lowdown on this.
Sounds like this accident is due to human factors/procedures utilising the new equipment (power-back tugs).
Maggotsup, (sic)
Proven wrong,...again! (The 717 procedure requires park brake OFF!)
Airsupport(LAME),
It appears that a qualifield LAME could have made this error also, so what's your angle about "jetsafe"?
thanks for providing the real lowdown on this.
Sounds like this accident is due to human factors/procedures utilising the new equipment (power-back tugs).
Maggotsup, (sic)
Proven wrong,...again! (The 717 procedure requires park brake OFF!)
Airsupport(LAME),
It appears that a qualifield LAME could have made this error also, so what's your angle about "jetsafe"?
Evertonian
Timing is everything my friends....
Look what greeted me this morning!
An opportunity exists for a motivated and enthusiastic individual to join our Melbourne based Safety and Quality team in the role of Safety Analyst.
To apply for this opportunity or find out more click on the link below or visit the "about us" section at www.jetstar.com.
An opportunity exists for a motivated and enthusiastic individual to join our Melbourne based Safety and Quality team in the role of Safety Analyst.
To apply for this opportunity or find out more click on the link below or visit the "about us" section at www.jetstar.com.
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Chuckma, airsupport, pullock etc etc - a little quick to shoot off aren't you?
So fast in fact, I'm not sure y'all couldn't be described as having "hair triggers"! I pity your poor 'partners of choice' if you make a habit of 'unloading' with such short notice...
Still, your ilk have never needed to get a good handle on the facts before condemning wildly in the past have you?
With investigative skills like that, y'all should be shoe-ins for a job with the ATSB. NOT!!!
So fast in fact, I'm not sure y'all couldn't be described as having "hair triggers"! I pity your poor 'partners of choice' if you make a habit of 'unloading' with such short notice...
Still, your ilk have never needed to get a good handle on the facts before condemning wildly in the past have you?
With investigative skills like that, y'all should be shoe-ins for a job with the ATSB. NOT!!!
Bottums Up
Chuckma said;
Assuming (a dangerous thing I know) that there may be more similarities between a 717 and a smurfjet than immediately meet the eye, could it be that the brakes are released after the wheels are chocked to improve brake cooling during the turn around?
If so, could it be that the crew weren't ready for the chocks to be removed, nor for the remote tug to start tugging, hence the park brakes were not set?
I can only agree with FluffyBunnyFeet's expressed sentiments.
Lambsie et al,
For you and your pilot bashing ilk, try this link, http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=536 Qantas 737 leaves runway at Darwin.
Or this one, http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=310 a Qantas B737 tail strike during takeoff.
Or this one, http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=316 a Qantas B747 over running a runway.
Or this one, http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=122 My GOD it’s a Qantas 737 retracting FLAPS INSTEAD OF UNDERCARRIAGE And the pilot making the error was the Captain, no less!
So is this a dig at Qantas?
NO!
Its to point out that Qantas pilots aren’t the gods you and your ilk make out, nor are pilots of Jetstar/Virgin/National Jet etc, the failures that you like to portray.
The only genralisation that can be safely made about pilots is that we’re all human. All Humans make mistakes, sometimes.
Why were the brakes released in the first place? Surely the procedure for the 717 is the same for every other Boeing. That is that the brakes arent released until cleared for push by ATC and engineering?
If so, could it be that the crew weren't ready for the chocks to be removed, nor for the remote tug to start tugging, hence the park brakes were not set?
I can only agree with FluffyBunnyFeet's expressed sentiments.
Lambsie et al,
For you and your pilot bashing ilk, try this link, http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=536 Qantas 737 leaves runway at Darwin.
Or this one, http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=310 a Qantas B737 tail strike during takeoff.
Or this one, http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=316 a Qantas B747 over running a runway.
Or this one, http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=122 My GOD it’s a Qantas 737 retracting FLAPS INSTEAD OF UNDERCARRIAGE And the pilot making the error was the Captain, no less!
So is this a dig at Qantas?
NO!
Its to point out that Qantas pilots aren’t the gods you and your ilk make out, nor are pilots of Jetstar/Virgin/National Jet etc, the failures that you like to portray.
The only genralisation that can be safely made about pilots is that we’re all human. All Humans make mistakes, sometimes.
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2 observations of a general nature
1). Bean counters should NEVER RUN anything, including a chook raffle.
They should count beans and tell you how many you have and give an opinion when ASKED, never expecting it to become policy.
Bottom lines can never be calculated accurately when there is no algorythm for "people", and calculation is all they know.
2). An accident is very rarely a single incident, it is most often a collection of small, appearantly unrelated, occurences which just happen to occur at exactly the wrong time together and any one missing would have prevented the accident totally.
They should count beans and tell you how many you have and give an opinion when ASKED, never expecting it to become policy.
Bottom lines can never be calculated accurately when there is no algorythm for "people", and calculation is all they know.
2). An accident is very rarely a single incident, it is most often a collection of small, appearantly unrelated, occurences which just happen to occur at exactly the wrong time together and any one missing would have prevented the accident totally.
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I have NOT blamed anyone? Except Jetstar themselves for their dangerous policy of not being Jetsafe. 
As for quick off the mark, hardly, this sort of thing was predicted by myself and others weeks ago, and sadly there will be more incidents as long as saving money at all costs is their policy.
Hopefully Jetstar will not ruin Australia's fine safety record.
As for quick off the mark, hardly, this sort of thing was predicted by myself and others weeks ago, and sadly there will be more incidents as long as saving money at all costs is their policy.
Hopefully Jetstar will not ruin Australia's fine safety record.
Airspurt,
I FAIL TO SEE HOW not having Lame's doing push backs would have contributed to this accident! Lame's are far better utilised doing LAME stuff such as attending to defects, and imparting their technical advice to the drivers.
I FAIL TO SEE HOW not having Lame's doing push backs would have contributed to this accident! Lame's are far better utilised doing LAME stuff such as attending to defects, and imparting their technical advice to the drivers.
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I do KNOW that you don't understand. 
However it doesn't seem to stop you commenting?
A lot of the problem is that there are many people at Jetstar that don't understand.
I guess a lot of you are just happy to have a job, however it is just so sad that you are prepared to operate LESS safely than Qantas or Virgin Blue.
However it doesn't seem to stop you commenting?
A lot of the problem is that there are many people at Jetstar that don't understand.
I guess a lot of you are just happy to have a job, however it is just so sad that you are prepared to operate LESS safely than Qantas or Virgin Blue.
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Your the one that don't understand, lame/air support.
Mate, how could a LAME 'ave prevented THIS particular incident. The remotes for the pushback devices were mixedup....or dont LAME's EVER make mistakes?
An by the way mate, you must get the award fer the most number of posts with no substance in 'em!
Mate, how could a LAME 'ave prevented THIS particular incident. The remotes for the pushback devices were mixedup....or dont LAME's EVER make mistakes?
An by the way mate, you must get the award fer the most number of posts with no substance in 'em!
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LAME, you were straight into blaming Jetstar for being unsafe. Then when it transpires they just happened to be the unlucky buggers sitting at the wrong gate, your posts drop back to the generic "Jetstar are unsafe anyway". Please give everyone else some more respect than that.
- We all know that you have a mindset against them.
- We all know that this will probably never change.
- We all know that you bring your opinions up in any thread that makes the vaguest reference to Jetstar.
- We all know your stance and respect your right to have that opinion.
- We all wish you would just move on like others have!
- We all know that you have a mindset against them.
- We all know that this will probably never change.
- We all know that you bring your opinions up in any thread that makes the vaguest reference to Jetstar.
- We all know your stance and respect your right to have that opinion.
- We all wish you would just move on like others have!