New licence issue procedure.
Thread Starter
New licence issue procedure.
This unofficial looking piece of information is now being circulated by CASA FOIs...
To: All CFIs, ATOs and other Industry Delegates
Re: Issue of Student Pilot Licences with photographic identification
From July 1 2004 CASA plans to commence issuing all new pilot licences with an identifying photograph. This new procedure follows a direction from the Minister for Transport and Regional Services to include photographic identification on all flight crew licences.
Existing flight crew licences will also need to be reissued with photographs progressively over the next 12 to 18 months, starting with ATPL holders. More information about reissuing existing licenses will be provided in the near future.
The inclusion of photos directly affects Student Pilot Licence applicants. From July 1 all licence applicants, including Student Pilots, will need to include a recent photograph, in the same format as a passport photograph. The applicant will need to be identified by a CASA delegate (eg a flying school CFI) and the photograph certified as being a true likeness of the applicant. This will be in addition to the normal identification process currently in place. Industry Delegates with a CAR 5.09 delegation will no longer be able to issue licences and those delegations will be cancelled in the near future by an instrument revoking all CAR 5.09 delegations held by industry.
CASA recognises the need that student pilots and training organisations may have for prompt issue of qualifications. Schools should ensure that licence applications are made well in advance of need (ie the first solo flight). CASA makes a commitment to process and issue student pilot licences in the shortest possible time.
Applications for pilot licences (including student pilot licences) should continue to be made in the normal way through the applicable CASA field office. Please note, however, that the photographic licences will now be printed and posted centrally from Canberra, rather than from the field office.
New licence application forms with detailed instructions are currently under development and will be available on the CASA website prior to implementation.
I regret that it has not been possible to give a longer period of notice prior to introducing these new requirements but there have been a number of complex issues to work through. I am sure that the new photographic licence will provide a higher level of utility and integrity that will benefit both industry and CASA.
Yours etc
Bill McIntyre
Re: Issue of Student Pilot Licences with photographic identification
From July 1 2004 CASA plans to commence issuing all new pilot licences with an identifying photograph. This new procedure follows a direction from the Minister for Transport and Regional Services to include photographic identification on all flight crew licences.
Existing flight crew licences will also need to be reissued with photographs progressively over the next 12 to 18 months, starting with ATPL holders. More information about reissuing existing licenses will be provided in the near future.
The inclusion of photos directly affects Student Pilot Licence applicants. From July 1 all licence applicants, including Student Pilots, will need to include a recent photograph, in the same format as a passport photograph. The applicant will need to be identified by a CASA delegate (eg a flying school CFI) and the photograph certified as being a true likeness of the applicant. This will be in addition to the normal identification process currently in place. Industry Delegates with a CAR 5.09 delegation will no longer be able to issue licences and those delegations will be cancelled in the near future by an instrument revoking all CAR 5.09 delegations held by industry.
CASA recognises the need that student pilots and training organisations may have for prompt issue of qualifications. Schools should ensure that licence applications are made well in advance of need (ie the first solo flight). CASA makes a commitment to process and issue student pilot licences in the shortest possible time.
Applications for pilot licences (including student pilot licences) should continue to be made in the normal way through the applicable CASA field office. Please note, however, that the photographic licences will now be printed and posted centrally from Canberra, rather than from the field office.
New licence application forms with detailed instructions are currently under development and will be available on the CASA website prior to implementation.
I regret that it has not been possible to give a longer period of notice prior to introducing these new requirements but there have been a number of complex issues to work through. I am sure that the new photographic licence will provide a higher level of utility and integrity that will benefit both industry and CASA.
Yours etc
Bill McIntyre
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I'm going to have a problem with this. I have a current ATPL but don't work in Oz. I can get the passport photo without any problem and will, grudgingly, pay the $200 "blood money", but how on earth am I going to get someone to certify the photo? Perhaps they'll allow my DAME to do that? 
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OzEx, seeing as how I am reasonably familiar with your ugly mug, I'll gladly "certify" you, I mean your photo if I could. How about getting somebody in the PNG CAA with an equivilant Delegation to do the photos and then claim ICAO State rights. Failing that I might be able to do something in late July.
Everybody read the McIntyre blurb again. This is only the photographic licence, NOT the security check thingy they tried to slug us $200 for. With any luck that may just slip quietly away, never to be heard of again. That's what I've heard anyway.
Disco Stu
Everybody read the McIntyre blurb again. This is only the photographic licence, NOT the security check thingy they tried to slug us $200 for. With any luck that may just slip quietly away, never to be heard of again. That's what I've heard anyway.
Disco Stu
Last edited by Disco Stu; 15th Jun 2004 at 11:53.
Ozexpat is right.......this is another carefully thought out change!
MoFo..............yes that's right, back in the 60's licences were in a little booklet with a green cover and had a photo of the licence holder. Then, no doubt in the name of progress and after a study involving some 500 CASA staff travelling all over the world, Australia decided to abandon this system and introduce the credit card-style licence.
Now after another 1500 CASA staff travelling the world and researching this critical safety matter, we are issued with a book licence, and it is soon to include a photo of the licence holder. I am so thrilled that our government and its operatives lead the world in flight safety.
MoFo..............yes that's right, back in the 60's licences were in a little booklet with a green cover and had a photo of the licence holder. Then, no doubt in the name of progress and after a study involving some 500 CASA staff travelling all over the world, Australia decided to abandon this system and introduce the credit card-style licence.
Now after another 1500 CASA staff travelling the world and researching this critical safety matter, we are issued with a book licence, and it is soon to include a photo of the licence holder. I am so thrilled that our government and its operatives lead the world in flight safety.
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DS... I daresay that the "late July" timeframe will see us certifying each other - in braile! 
I doubt that anyone in the PNG CAA still holds any CASA delegations these days. 
Hardly surprising, I guess... 
chimbu warrior... by the mid 70s, the photo had already disappeared but the green cover booklet remained. I know coz I've still got it. I'd suggest that the said "1500 CASA staff" were involved in research to delete the photograph...
I doubt that anyone in the PNG CAA still holds any CASA delegations these days. Hardly surprising, I guess... chimbu warrior... by the mid 70s, the photo had already disappeared but the green cover booklet remained. I know coz I've still got it. I'd suggest that the said "1500 CASA staff" were involved in research to delete the photograph...
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DiscoStu
I'm not certain if this is "just about the photographic licence" - McIntyre's epistle states "More information about reissuing existing licenses will be provided in the near future." could mean anything...
This whole "security" thing gives me more bowel action than an colonoscopy prep......Why not just make it mandatory for pilots licences to be accomapnied by a suitable photgraphic proof of identity such as a driver's licence or passport - all cheaper options than than reissuing licences - or do we just LURVE these dopes to waste our tax money???
Guys, the $200 bucks is bad enough for this poorly thought out piece of cr@p in the name of "security". Why pick on pilots alone for this nonsense - it make even less sense for GA pilots of lighties. If you wanted cause havoc in the middle of Sydney or Melbourne would you choose:
a) GA aircraft with limited payload and reliance on appropriate weather and pilot skills to deliver payload to target
OR
b) Truck, requiring no special skills and no special weather conditions and payloads of several tonnes?
STUPID STUPID STUPID.
The tickler is on the proposed "2 year validity". My licence has unlimited validity, now there's validity that is limited, and if the bureaucratic nincompoops who commonly run such "security programs" run true to form, they will be understaffed, run behind schedule AND be subject to industrial stoppages - THEIR tardiness (not yours - can lead to prolonged loss of YOUR livelihood at "renewal" time). Lets not forget that this "security" check will rely on the integrated & coordinated "assistance" of several police and intelligence agencies.......bwahahahaha!!!
Dumb and dumber, led by the Minister for (Disruption of) Transport.
Don't forget this election, folks!
Pauses for breath, inhales oxygen and slips nitrolingual tablet under tongue... chest pain subsides...
I'm not certain if this is "just about the photographic licence" - McIntyre's epistle states "More information about reissuing existing licenses will be provided in the near future." could mean anything...
This whole "security" thing gives me more bowel action than an colonoscopy prep......Why not just make it mandatory for pilots licences to be accomapnied by a suitable photgraphic proof of identity such as a driver's licence or passport - all cheaper options than than reissuing licences - or do we just LURVE these dopes to waste our tax money???
Guys, the $200 bucks is bad enough for this poorly thought out piece of cr@p in the name of "security". Why pick on pilots alone for this nonsense - it make even less sense for GA pilots of lighties. If you wanted cause havoc in the middle of Sydney or Melbourne would you choose:
a) GA aircraft with limited payload and reliance on appropriate weather and pilot skills to deliver payload to target
OR
b) Truck, requiring no special skills and no special weather conditions and payloads of several tonnes?
STUPID STUPID STUPID.
The tickler is on the proposed "2 year validity". My licence has unlimited validity, now there's validity that is limited, and if the bureaucratic nincompoops who commonly run such "security programs" run true to form, they will be understaffed, run behind schedule AND be subject to industrial stoppages - THEIR tardiness (not yours - can lead to prolonged loss of YOUR livelihood at "renewal" time). Lets not forget that this "security" check will rely on the integrated & coordinated "assistance" of several police and intelligence agencies.......bwahahahaha!!!
Dumb and dumber, led by the Minister for (Disruption of) Transport.
Don't forget this election, folks!
Pauses for breath, inhales oxygen and slips nitrolingual tablet under tongue... chest pain subsides...
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I still have my green book, an original, not a plastic DOT imitation 
But I have never seen a PL with a photo, ever. So if they ever did it, it must have been very early 60s at the latest.
But I have never seen a PL with a photo, ever. So if they ever did it, it must have been very early 60s at the latest.
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Pharcarnell,
Not $200 I hope (or am I still in a fool's paradise)!
Scary thought if they do charge that:
- First of all, CASA charges you $200 for this photo licence.
- Then when the security clearance thing comes in, whenever that is, if ever, they'd charge you another $200 (maybe they'd introduce this ASAP so that they can make some money
).
Considering there seem to be somewhere in the region of 15,000 licence holders, and if all of them get the licence re-issued as photo one and then the security cleared one, that's $6,000,000 for them!
Oh alright, deduct $40 or whatever it costs for the actual security clearance - that still leaves CASA with $5,400,000.
I should damn well hope that they don't charge THAT much for the replacement (I can understand initial issue fees but for admin stuff that takes 10 min to do ... oh no!).
P.S. On introduction of photo licence, I can imagine some wankas using it as a night-club entry ID.
Not $200 I hope (or am I still in a fool's paradise)!
Scary thought if they do charge that:
- First of all, CASA charges you $200 for this photo licence.
- Then when the security clearance thing comes in, whenever that is, if ever, they'd charge you another $200 (maybe they'd introduce this ASAP so that they can make some money
).Considering there seem to be somewhere in the region of 15,000 licence holders, and if all of them get the licence re-issued as photo one and then the security cleared one, that's $6,000,000 for them!
Oh alright, deduct $40 or whatever it costs for the actual security clearance - that still leaves CASA with $5,400,000. I should damn well hope that they don't charge THAT much for the replacement (I can understand initial issue fees but for admin stuff that takes 10 min to do ... oh no!).
P.S. On introduction of photo licence, I can imagine some wankas using it as a night-club entry ID.
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Birdy
From the dwarfs link you are 1/2 right. Double the profits and you have the real reason they WILL try to charge what they can get away with.
Governments (all of them) seem to have gone way beyond the "user pays" principle to "lets make a bucket full and damn them" principle.
I use the Vic governments budgeting serveral millions from speed cameras as a basis of this hypothesis.
Generally the powers that be are not happy with covering their costs and a reasonable return, they are only interested in milking any and every cash cow till it screams in agony.
I really do hope I'm being overly pessimistic but fear I'm on the conservative side of the calculations.
I really do think it's gonna hurt
Governments (all of them) seem to have gone way beyond the "user pays" principle to "lets make a bucket full and damn them" principle.
I use the Vic governments budgeting serveral millions from speed cameras as a basis of this hypothesis.
Generally the powers that be are not happy with covering their costs and a reasonable return, they are only interested in milking any and every cash cow till it screams in agony.
I really do hope I'm being overly pessimistic but fear I'm on the conservative side of the calculations.
I really do think it's gonna hurt
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Thanks for the thought FarCu, Russ is still with HeviLift, but now flying in the Solomon Islands. He's on tours, I believe, so I'm unlikely to see him again for quite a while.
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Trust me to get the number wrong. That's why I am not an accountant... Sorry guys
Now I see why they want to make it renewable every 2 years. Source of revenue!
Are they trying to kill of GA for good? I guess at least they'll realise killing GA will kill their source of income from licence renewals/reissues. Hmmm.
Anyway, what are CASA planning on doing with 12 million or whatever then? Are they going to implement new computer system to administer payments? I hope it doesn't go to line the pockets of civil servants, or worse, pollies
P.S. Pharcarnell and FarCu? Imaginative handles!
P.P.S. My apology for the over-use of emoticons.
Sorry guys Now I see why they want to make it renewable every 2 years. Source of revenue!
Are they trying to kill of GA for good? I guess at least they'll realise killing GA will kill their source of income from licence renewals/reissues. Hmmm.
Anyway, what are CASA planning on doing with 12 million or whatever then? Are they going to implement new computer system to administer payments?
I hope it doesn't go to line the pockets of civil servants, or worse, pollies P.S. Pharcarnell and FarCu? Imaginative handles!
P.P.S. My apology for the over-use of emoticons.
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S-T
Quote: "when exactly is one required to produce their Flight Crew Licence? Never in a 'security' conscious situation that I can think of - Airside pass covers most of those situations surely."
Airside pass?? There's a a lot of commercial aviation that doesn't need one of these!
CASA authorities can require production of licence of course (read the legislation if you're an insomniac) and those hiring pilots will want to have a gander - maybe employers are supposed to be the security gateway keepers- but that's about it...
Quote: "when exactly is one required to produce their Flight Crew Licence? Never in a 'security' conscious situation that I can think of - Airside pass covers most of those situations surely."
Airside pass?? There's a a lot of commercial aviation that doesn't need one of these!
CASA authorities can require production of licence of course (read the legislation if you're an insomniac) and those hiring pilots will want to have a gander - maybe employers are supposed to be the security gateway keepers- but that's about it...
