No ATC Services for Jetstar
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No ATC Services for Jetstar
Am I correct in presuming that part of the "no frills" approach for Jetstar means that there will be no ATCs in the tower at Avalon or for that matter in places like Hobart after 2145 (current closing time) for scheduled arrivals/departures?
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Noticed the TWR hours at RK have changed with the advent of Jetstar (I think the same at MK as well):
- No overnights at RK anymore, so the TWR will close at 7:50 local (before the last scheduled arrival of Vrigin)
- TWR will open at 6:45 local - perhaps to accommodate the arrival of the first Jetstar flight? (since they won't be overnighting anymore, perhaps an early morning arrival/departure there) - again opening after the first scheduled VB departure.
Seems to me Jetstar are getting their ATC services!!
- No overnights at RK anymore, so the TWR will close at 7:50 local (before the last scheduled arrival of Vrigin)
- TWR will open at 6:45 local - perhaps to accommodate the arrival of the first Jetstar flight? (since they won't be overnighting anymore, perhaps an early morning arrival/departure there) - again opening after the first scheduled VB departure.
Seems to me Jetstar are getting their ATC services!!
Is Jetstart taking No-Frills to a new level?
There are two JQ arrivals into Hobart after the tower has closed at 2145. On the first day of operation I heard one of these flights call Car 13 at Hobart (the Security guy on the fence) and ask what the wind was doing at Hobart before landing.
I must point out that they also got the HB METAR from ML Centre and called outbound company traffic to get an idea of conditions, but it seems ridiculous to be asking someone who probably has no idea what they're looking at for wx info.
Comments?
There are two JQ arrivals into Hobart after the tower has closed at 2145. On the first day of operation I heard one of these flights call Car 13 at Hobart (the Security guy on the fence) and ask what the wind was doing at Hobart before landing.
I must point out that they also got the HB METAR from ML Centre and called outbound company traffic to get an idea of conditions, but it seems ridiculous to be asking someone who probably has no idea what they're looking at for wx info.
Comments?
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Perspective Required
Just to put the whole argument into perspective, Pruners should remember that 2 MBZ locations (with CA/GRS) in Australia are already experiencing 80+ jet RPT movements a week (BA146/B737), as well as corporate and charter jets and turboprops that range from anything between SW3/DH8s to B757/G5s. All without any major incident as far as I'm aware.
All of these jet movements occur in a GA traffic environment at both airports that is far busier than AV will ever be. In some cases, the GA traffic levels would be higher than at some of our existing control tower locations. So its not as if there isn't some successful uncontrolled precedents already operating in Oz.
All of these jet movements occur in a GA traffic environment at both airports that is far busier than AV will ever be. In some cases, the GA traffic levels would be higher than at some of our existing control tower locations. So its not as if there isn't some successful uncontrolled precedents already operating in Oz.
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Buckshot:
METARs from ML Centre and other pilot reports is pretty common for those operating IFR in TAS outside tower hours. In fact, regular fliers often (professionally) volunteer wx reports in advance for other pilots, and it doesn't ever seem to be much trouble getting info from ML Centre.
I must point out that they also got the HB METAR from ML Centre and called outbound company traffic to get an idea of conditions ...
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QSK,
I agree with your point Bme has 80+rpt /wk and 600+total weekly movements.
The CAGRS is wx qualified, DJ requested the CAGRO for their initial back of the clock ops as concerned wx mainly sea fog and also prefered runway and traffic even though our groundstaff and load controller were present on the company freq.
We advised normaly no traffic, but the request remained.The chief pilot was concerned so we complied
Our recent DAS identified 13 mitigators between MBZ and MBZ+CAGRS.
My point is for apples to apples you need to look at MBZ airports for a comparision or are they using a CAGRS at Avalon?
I agree with your point Bme has 80+rpt /wk and 600+total weekly movements.
The CAGRS is wx qualified, DJ requested the CAGRO for their initial back of the clock ops as concerned wx mainly sea fog and also prefered runway and traffic even though our groundstaff and load controller were present on the company freq.
We advised normaly no traffic, but the request remained.The chief pilot was concerned so we complied
Our recent DAS identified 13 mitigators between MBZ and MBZ+CAGRS.
My point is for apples to apples you need to look at MBZ airports for a comparision or are they using a CAGRS at Avalon?
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Wally2:
Congrats on your appearance on TV the other night. You presented your case very well, I thought.
I understand AV may be considering providing (or already have) CA/GRS for JetStar. They already provide CA/GRS during the AV Airshow so, I guess, it just simply means extending the concept.
Congrats on your appearance on TV the other night. You presented your case very well, I thought.
I understand AV may be considering providing (or already have) CA/GRS for JetStar. They already provide CA/GRS during the AV Airshow so, I guess, it just simply means extending the concept.
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AirShows DownUnder provides the CAGRO for the airshow, and they're all volunteer. That's not to say Mr. Fox couldn't stump up for one. A permanent CAGRO would probably cost less than running the tower part time.
Everybodies gotta get that weather, coz that makes a straight-in approach legal and safe in all conditions
, until its a CTAF anyhow.
Everybodies gotta get that weather, coz that makes a straight-in approach legal and safe in all conditions
, until its a CTAF anyhow.
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In pilots' hands
Saturday, May 29
Geelong Advertiser - Danny Lannen
JETSTAR pilots will land and take off without guidance from air traffic controllers at Avalon Airport.
Officials have not upgraded Avalon's air traffic monitoring procedures despite the arrival of the budget airline. Jetstar will fly Boeing 717 jets into Avalon from Tuesday.
An existing mandatory reporting system will leave pilots in jets and smaller planes to report co-ordinates and flight paths to each other. Air traffic controllers at Melbourne Airport will oversee movements on radar.
Spokesman Peter Gibson confirmed the Civil Aviation Safety Authority had approved controls for Jetstar flights at Avalon.
``It's nothing unusual,'' Mr Gibson said. ``Avalon will be operating, as I understand, as a mandatory broadcast zone when Jetstar is using the airport.
``That simply means that within a certain radius of the airport, 20 or 30 miles out, pilots entering that airspace have to make a radio broadcast on a special frequency to tell others that they are coming into that area and tracking whatever co-ordinates so everyone knows where aircraft are and what they are intending to do.
``The system operates at most regional aerodromes in Australia and plenty of aerodromes where 737 jets are operating with large passenger numbers.''
But an operating air traffic controller told the Geelong Advertiser safety might be compromised.
``Anybody is allowed to fly into that airspace, it's like flying out of Grovedale,'' he said.
``It's just an attempt to save a dollar.
``It was all decided by Jetstar and Qantas (before) consulting CASA and Air Services Australia.
``It's absurd, there's a tower there, infrastructure there and nobody willing to put a dollar in.''
The Advertiser agreed to protect the man's identity. He spoke out in the interests of informing passengers.
Avalon Airport manager Tim Anderson said Jetstar flights would contend with low traffic volume.
``Avalon experiences only about 10 aircraft movements a day on average, and some days even less than that,'' Mr Anderson said.
Jetstar will operate 70 flights a week between Avalon, Sydney and Brisbane.
Corporate communications manager Simon Westaway said passengers should have no concerns.
``The airport will provide the appropriate level of safety and emergency and security services,'' he said.
Saturday, May 29
Geelong Advertiser - Danny Lannen
JETSTAR pilots will land and take off without guidance from air traffic controllers at Avalon Airport.
Officials have not upgraded Avalon's air traffic monitoring procedures despite the arrival of the budget airline. Jetstar will fly Boeing 717 jets into Avalon from Tuesday.
An existing mandatory reporting system will leave pilots in jets and smaller planes to report co-ordinates and flight paths to each other. Air traffic controllers at Melbourne Airport will oversee movements on radar.
Spokesman Peter Gibson confirmed the Civil Aviation Safety Authority had approved controls for Jetstar flights at Avalon.
``It's nothing unusual,'' Mr Gibson said. ``Avalon will be operating, as I understand, as a mandatory broadcast zone when Jetstar is using the airport.
``That simply means that within a certain radius of the airport, 20 or 30 miles out, pilots entering that airspace have to make a radio broadcast on a special frequency to tell others that they are coming into that area and tracking whatever co-ordinates so everyone knows where aircraft are and what they are intending to do.
``The system operates at most regional aerodromes in Australia and plenty of aerodromes where 737 jets are operating with large passenger numbers.''
But an operating air traffic controller told the Geelong Advertiser safety might be compromised.
``Anybody is allowed to fly into that airspace, it's like flying out of Grovedale,'' he said.
``It's just an attempt to save a dollar.
``It was all decided by Jetstar and Qantas (before) consulting CASA and Air Services Australia.
``It's absurd, there's a tower there, infrastructure there and nobody willing to put a dollar in.''
The Advertiser agreed to protect the man's identity. He spoke out in the interests of informing passengers.
Avalon Airport manager Tim Anderson said Jetstar flights would contend with low traffic volume.
``Avalon experiences only about 10 aircraft movements a day on average, and some days even less than that,'' Mr Anderson said.
Jetstar will operate 70 flights a week between Avalon, Sydney and Brisbane.
Corporate communications manager Simon Westaway said passengers should have no concerns.
``The airport will provide the appropriate level of safety and emergency and security services,'' he said.
