Qantas hosties revolt looming

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Despite some of the perceptions here, I believe that it is not the general quality of QF service that is the problem but the lack of consistency.

When they are good, they are very good.. when they are bad... well....

Also, passenger expectations really don't seem to have changed since the 60's... when a ticket to LHR would cost your best part of a years wage.

[Z Force]

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why an international cabin manager gets around $100,000 per year and a flight attendant around $70,000.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

I could ask that too... I am a Qantas captain and earn nowhere near that!!

[phat boy]

hey come on theres a lot of training going into becoming a FA. And serious quals required. and huge responsibilties too. should be paid MORE than 100k....

[The Enema Bandit]

Gosh, that's pretty good moll money. Maybe I should apply.

[spinout]

A Qantas Regional captain earns less than an int F/A! Do you have to have a HSC to apply for a job as a F/A?

[Mr Seatback 2]

Hear hear!

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

ST, there are no QF Captains earning that sort of money unless they are in a management position.

Even if they did the 5 direct LA's that the barons used to do, the figures come up way short of the sum you mentioned.

Equally, some of the figures bandied around for what CSM's earn have allowances added to them. While allowances are a cost to the company, they should not be used to inflate the supposed remuneration of crew.

[Kaptin M]

From ****su-Tonka on p.1, "The stupid thing is management may be playing to the shareholders...".
IMO, it's clear that the upper managment of QF are reducing expenditure wherever possible - regardless of the eventual GUARANTEED decline in service and quality of the product - for one small, elite group only. THEMSELVES.

They are interested ONLY in grabbing their multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses, by squeezing every drop of blood from every quarter in the company by devaluing QANTAS by removing the "quality" component of the company.
This is going to eventually erode the market value, as disenchanted customers decide to try competitors, rather than putting up with continually being delivered LESS than they once received.
Eventually share prices will reflect Dixon's un-doing of QANTAS.

But in the meantime he'll have socked enough away for himself, for a "comfortable" retirement.

After all, QANTAS is touted as only the Spirit of Australia - and it looks like that's all that's going to be left after the body has been exported!

[cabin secure]

It is not my intention to get anyone offside however:


Do regional pilots work up to 18 hours a day with half that time as BOC flying.
Do you have to deal with drunks , abuse and cranky people and keep on smiling.
At my international airline, cabin crew pay was $36 000 pa increasing to $40 after 12 months. CM's were on 52K and are now on 54K. Plus allowances.
I have my HSC and a degree. And yes HSC was compulsory when I started.
So I think they get their monies worth out of us.

[Oz Ocker]

Aww gimme a bl@@dy break will ya - "deal with drunks , abuse and cranky people and keep on smiling." anyone dealin' face t' face with the public does that luv, includin waiters n' waitresses, and nurses.
Lotsa them got their HSC's and a degree or 2 as well. Like it or not tho' cs, ya don't need ta have any brains to do the job of a cabin crew.
Like someone said earlier on, it's only because youse 'ave ad a strong union that you got the conditions you got now.
Waiters, waitresses, nurses all work those long hours like you do for half the money an' none of the travel benefits.
Truth is a 16 year old kid could be trained up to do your job in a week or less.
It's only your own fault if you don't find a job where you can use that degree you've got.

Be seein' youse round.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Oz Ocker...

Who's to say Cabin Secure's degree isn't being used? Without knowing Cabin Secure personally, who's to say they don't have an Arts degree in a language?

I won't even qualify some of your comments with a response, other than to say in conclusion that they do get their money's worth from us. And our union is strong because, in general (and most of the time), we act as a collective group.

If you don't like it - tough.

[Oz Ocker]

Fair sucka the save ****su, mate.
I call a farkin spade a spade.
Hosties are overpaid glorified waitresses who can be replaced in like a week or less.
Pilots are just glorified drivers who dream of havin an emergency some time soon. But it usually never happens.
Irregardless of what I think Dicko's gunna screw yer @rses to the wall, just because he can, an because none of youse are strong enough to take him on.

Be seein' youse round.

[spinout]

If the FAAA is so strong why do they ignore the poor wages and conditions of your fellow Flight Attends in the Qantas Regionals, read Eastern and Sunstate! Or do you only look after yourselves?

[DirectAnywhere]

Perhaps the FAAA should have a look at the position the pilots find themselves in now and get in early - before someone else does.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Spinout...

You'll find that the problem you talk of is not so much the FAAA's problem - it is more related to the Workplace Relations Act (1996).

Prior to the Liberal Party gaining Federal control in 1996, unions were able to hold 'third party boycotts' - that is, one area of the company (or indeed, a different company altogether), could either threaten or actually strike to obtain the benefits for the other. This was a means of assisting a smaller group of employees to get what they wanted where they wouldn't normally have the power (or size) to carry off the importance of the strike.

Back in 1992, Short Haul crew threatened to go on strike for Eastern, Southern & Sunstate crew (of whom there weren't as many as today) for Career Progression. As a result, Qantas yielded and the regional crew got it. The vast majority of these crew are now working in Short Haul (and Long Haul) themselves now.

So - whilst the FAAA does what it can, it does not have the same power it did before 1996 (same for other unions). Other divisions (ie. Short Haul) who would come to the aid of the much smaller sister carrier (ie. Eastern) are unable to provide the same assistance they used to.

If you feel strongly enough about it, then get involved with the FAAA and try to improve your position. Change starts with you.

[Jet_Black_Monaro]

Hosties are overpaid glorified waitresses who can be replaced in like a week or less

Well said. I think that most QF cabin crew have been out of the real world for too long. They have no idea what it is like to work for a living for a fair days pay. A lot of ex AN crew found out the hard way. Just read some of the rubbish on the two faaa websites. It's straight out of a 60's unionist manual.

Perhaps one day all QF FA's will be locked out because their Association's greed will push the company a little too far.

Never forget there are three times as many people with fresh attitudes and 21st Century industrial expectations waiting at the front door to take your job tomorrow at less pay. Also, the travelling public are very aware of a lot of FA's rampant unionism which is very out of step with today's Australia.

The associations outdated attitudes to employer/employee relationships and expectations will ultimately be their downfall. And you will all go down with the ship.

It will make great 6 o'clock news - Locked out, protesting FA's at the front of the terminals in denial that their cushy existence is over while QF jets taking off in the background. The public will not support you. Don't think it can't happen because industrial precedent is there.

Remember the "unbreakable" maritime (wharfies) union? That's good if you do because nobody else does!

[Mr Seatback 2]

Jet Black Monaro

I feel compelled to respond to your post.

Firstly - prior to becoming a FA I was never a union member. On the contrary, despite my background, I didn't believe they played a role (that, was of course, way back in the day). This was despite my employment with Ansett, and then Air New Zealand.

This all changed when I joined my current airline a few years ago. It was union membership, and involvement, that radically changed the operation and basic conditions and pay for all crew at my airline. For the better - and no, I'm not talking Long Haul salaries, etc.

I, for one, have never forgotten just how competitive it is to get into flying in this country. Specifically, it took me 11 seperate interviews before I got in with my current airline. Others that I work with went through similar scenarios to get in. And there are those who simply didn't care and got in first go!

Sure, there are those who fly for QF (specifically, since we don't have AN anymore) who don't know/can't remember how hard work is in the 'real world'. The AN kids learnt the hard way. But there are people in all walks of life who forget just how fortunate they are - it needn't be necessarily in employment, whereas social 'differences' are far more tangible.

FA's - whether they are QF or not - are as guilty as any other employee group who happen to work for a company that provides decent benefits and pay. And I have yet to meet an employee in any of the airlines I have worked for - from Tech Crew to Cleaner to Res Staff - who have said they didn't want a pay rise or better conditions!

The very fact that FA's in this country have managed to hold onto the pay and conditions they have - in comparison with their counterparts in the US and UK/Europe - is testament to the organisation and work performed by the membership and it's officials. I have friends who fly for various airlines in both continents who can't believe the money I make - which, compared to Short & Long Haul isn't great!

Is the Association perfect? No - but then what is perfect? In a world where so many individuals have so many different points of view, are we ever going to agree on something so grey? No - but we can agree to disagree.

I don't believe the Association is being greedy, or that QF will institute a lockdown on FA's, or anything of that nature. Will there be a bunfight, or handbags at 5 paces showdown at some point? Certainly - but you show me an EBA negotiation in ANY industry where this hasn't/doesn't occur regularly around the country, in any company. This isn't, nor do I believe (knowing what I know now) this is going to turn into another MUA scenario. Hopefully it never will.

[EPIRB]

I ran into a long haul flight attendant that I know the other day who told me she was going sick for a rostered Johanasburg trip because the allowances weren't good enough. When I asked her if she thought that was a bit unfair on her colleagues, one of whom will have to do her trip, her response was that she was junior once too. Sometimes a whole crew will go sick for a Johanasburg. With a work ethic like entrenched amongst the flight attendants is it any wonder Qantas employ overseas based flight attendants?

[Buster Hyman]

It's not a matter of morale, it's more work ethic ****su. And, for the record, it's not limited to the QF crews.

B.O.C. was a constant struggle at AN, until the part timers came in & the $$$'s were more attractive to the mainline crews.