Qantas FO's and SO's-Jetstar - cont`d
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Chimbu,
Gosh. Where do you work? Eva? Silkair? SQ? Vietnam? Pacific? Brunei? China Air?
Yep, Ex Ansett guys are really struggling with the high standards of Asia.
How blunt is your axe?
To limit the number of AOC?fs or pilot licenses issued within the industry is to ignore the market forces that bought you mobile phones and DVD players.
I hope the person proposing such outdated practices is happy using their gramophone and carrier pigeon.
Gosh. Where do you work? Eva? Silkair? SQ? Vietnam? Pacific? Brunei? China Air?
Yep, Ex Ansett guys are really struggling with the high standards of Asia.
How blunt is your axe?
To limit the number of AOC?fs or pilot licenses issued within the industry is to ignore the market forces that bought you mobile phones and DVD players.
I hope the person proposing such outdated practices is happy using their gramophone and carrier pigeon.
Join Date: May 2003
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We can debate the issue till the cows come home - but the fact is - we are progressively getting sold out by management to scabs that will work for peanuts when there is absolutely no basis and no reason given the profits QF make and will continue to make. Impulse went squealing to QF and begged for mercy - FACT - and played right into the hands of GD.
Now we are all staring down the barrel of lower conditions of service thanks to a toothless union, uncaring management a shortsighted pilot group.
Now we are all staring down the barrel of lower conditions of service thanks to a toothless union, uncaring management a shortsighted pilot group.
Kind of ironic that the time honoured method of years out bush in GA, working for peanuts (and sometimes for peanuts) may have in some way leant itself to this dilema of pilots all too quickly accepting fantastic flying jobs with somewhat lower conditions.
?...
How arrogant of you to imply that someone who didnt start their flying until later in life, rather than fresh out of high school, in some way has missed their chance and shouldn't join the clutter of aspiring airline pilots. From my earliest memory I wanted to fly, however financial constraints can restrict many, and I worked damned hard to start as late as I did. Very narrow minded pal...
?...
How arrogant of you to imply that someone who didnt start their flying until later in life, rather than fresh out of high school, in some way has missed their chance and shouldn't join the clutter of aspiring airline pilots. From my earliest memory I wanted to fly, however financial constraints can restrict many, and I worked damned hard to start as late as I did. Very narrow minded pal...
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Whichever way this now goes, it is going to be - in the words of one, J. Strong - another "watershed for Australia's airlines".
Unless you Q guys can quickly get your act together,and realise that unity (of ALL pilots employed by QANTAS) is your strongest defence against a greedy, ruthless adversary, then you had best start planning how you are going to pay your kids' school fees, home mortgages, and plans for the future, on drastically reduced incomes...when you're at home.
Because as ruthless as many of these "LCC's" are with your salary, they are hopeless with scheduling efficiency.
In other words, expect to get paid LESS, see your family LESS, but be "at work" MORE!
As long as some of you see the IPG as your enemy, and want to continue "sticking it to 'em" at every possible opportunity, you are playing into your true adversary's hands.
The IPG/J* is a done deal - get over it, and move FORWARD.
Unless you Q guys can quickly get your act together,and realise that unity (of ALL pilots employed by QANTAS) is your strongest defence against a greedy, ruthless adversary, then you had best start planning how you are going to pay your kids' school fees, home mortgages, and plans for the future, on drastically reduced incomes...when you're at home.
Because as ruthless as many of these "LCC's" are with your salary, they are hopeless with scheduling efficiency.
In other words, expect to get paid LESS, see your family LESS, but be "at work" MORE!
As long as some of you see the IPG as your enemy, and want to continue "sticking it to 'em" at every possible opportunity, you are playing into your true adversary's hands.
The IPG/J* is a done deal - get over it, and move FORWARD.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Gents while IPG, VB, 89, Qf, Asia are out on the front lawn argueing the accountants are inside emptying the safe and looking under the materass for any stashed money.
Allied Pickford are going to rock up with a truck to take the furniture in a minute.
Allied Pickford are going to rock up with a truck to take the furniture in a minute.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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I could not resist.
What we have here boys and girls is a 4 cornered boxing ring.
In 1 corner we have the QF mainline boys. Aka Proplever. Whom are quite understandably concerned about their future pay and conditions. In the other corner we have the wannabee and GA. This group includes the majority who will never fly for a high capacity airline. ie Pete Conrad. The 3rd corner are the symapathises or the I dont cares. This may include those from the previous 2 corners. These people understand the Jetstar boys and girls had no choice but to try and save their jobs. In the last corner are the Jetstar crew.
Now it does not take an Einstein to figure out. The Jestar crew had the IPC represent the 150 Impulse pilots and put a proposal they thought was fair in order to preserve their jobs and career. A proposal in which everybody seems to forget. Is on par YES PAR with Virgin Blues. The Jetsatar pilots unanimously voted in favour with a backing of 100%. In other words anyone else what have done the same bl00dy thing.
Now the bells has sounded Jestar has won the fight so please put an end to this endless pathetic diatribe.
What we have here boys and girls is a 4 cornered boxing ring.
In 1 corner we have the QF mainline boys. Aka Proplever. Whom are quite understandably concerned about their future pay and conditions. In the other corner we have the wannabee and GA. This group includes the majority who will never fly for a high capacity airline. ie Pete Conrad. The 3rd corner are the symapathises or the I dont cares. This may include those from the previous 2 corners. These people understand the Jetstar boys and girls had no choice but to try and save their jobs. In the last corner are the Jetstar crew.
Now it does not take an Einstein to figure out. The Jestar crew had the IPC represent the 150 Impulse pilots and put a proposal they thought was fair in order to preserve their jobs and career. A proposal in which everybody seems to forget. Is on par YES PAR with Virgin Blues. The Jetsatar pilots unanimously voted in favour with a backing of 100%. In other words anyone else what have done the same bl00dy thing.
Now the bells has sounded Jestar has won the fight so please put an end to this endless pathetic diatribe.
Chimbu
Bumbling enthusiasm, that's all. Probably not warranting sweeping generalisations.
The guys that don't adopt their new airline's culture will cop a professional fall. A fate not reserved exclusively for ex-AN pilots on the international market!
"We did it this way in AN...." would be foolish-considering the long line of hybrid (mongrel) Airbus procedures at Ansett.
Bumbling enthusiasm, that's all. Probably not warranting sweeping generalisations.
The guys that don't adopt their new airline's culture will cop a professional fall. A fate not reserved exclusively for ex-AN pilots on the international market!
"We did it this way in AN...." would be foolish-considering the long line of hybrid (mongrel) Airbus procedures at Ansett.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Alan Joyce - So much credibility.....such a successful track record at Ansett...where are they now?
Impulse Guys - Had GD over a barrel.....he needed an AOC fast to start porn*...they had a reasonable negotiating position to get a reasonable wage......short sighted?
Pay peanuts get monkeys - they hope they will entice good quality pilots back from overseas, but for those wages i suspect they will get a lower standard......won't know until we see incidents occurring...hopefully no major ones...
My Hope - People will use J* as a stepping stone, get some jet experience, then leave after a year or two to proper jobs, wherever that may be, hopefully no loyalty to a rip-off employer........the turnover should cost a lot of money, and some accountant might realise it is economically viable to pay pilots properly to get the job done right, to hire professionals, and to stop people leaving.......
Hope this post doesn't offend anyone......
Impulse Guys - Had GD over a barrel.....he needed an AOC fast to start porn*...they had a reasonable negotiating position to get a reasonable wage......short sighted?
Pay peanuts get monkeys - they hope they will entice good quality pilots back from overseas, but for those wages i suspect they will get a lower standard......won't know until we see incidents occurring...hopefully no major ones...
My Hope - People will use J* as a stepping stone, get some jet experience, then leave after a year or two to proper jobs, wherever that may be, hopefully no loyalty to a rip-off employer........the turnover should cost a lot of money, and some accountant might realise it is economically viable to pay pilots properly to get the job done right, to hire professionals, and to stop people leaving.......
Hope this post doesn't offend anyone......
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Vic, Australia
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I agree that what is done is done. It is time for a more united front line. A mutually benificial deal between AIPA and the IPG to campaign for better wages at Jetstar. A win for the jetstar pilots, as it woud give them some industrial muscle to achieve this outcome.
Whats in it for AIPA members? If Jetstar wages were brought into line with say Virgin, it would help to stop the erosion of all airline pilot wages within Australia.
By also offering a deal to Virgin pilots for coverage, AIPA would achieve a position of reasonable strength, helping in future EBA negotiating and reducing the possibility of situations like the impulse guys are in with Jetstar.
I'll shut up now!
Whats in it for AIPA members? If Jetstar wages were brought into line with say Virgin, it would help to stop the erosion of all airline pilot wages within Australia.
By also offering a deal to Virgin pilots for coverage, AIPA would achieve a position of reasonable strength, helping in future EBA negotiating and reducing the possibility of situations like the impulse guys are in with Jetstar.
I'll shut up now!
Join Date: Jul 2000
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The deal is already on a par with Virgin with projected overtime rates. If the overtime does not eventuate, there is a written agreement from the company to make the pay the same as Virgin.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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There's alot of talk about doing this and that before it's too late.
Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the horse has bolted, found a mare, had a family, died of old age, been buried, turned into oil and is currently providing fuel for your car.
Funny how " I'm alright, screw the rest of you " aka AIPA only stir when they are worried about saving there own R's ( from personal experience, only ever heard from them when NJS looked anything like intruding on their turf )
Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the horse has bolted, found a mare, had a family, died of old age, been buried, turned into oil and is currently providing fuel for your car.
Funny how " I'm alright, screw the rest of you " aka AIPA only stir when they are worried about saving there own R's ( from personal experience, only ever heard from them when NJS looked anything like intruding on their turf )
Join Date: Jul 2002
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OK, another entrant in the endless line of Pulse bashers. Nice one Ozzie 152 smoker. The tone in your post tells me that you probbably dont fly airliners. Rulling the roost at a country aeroclub? Jeez, youve got it made.
I would suggest you retire. 2 posts is enough from you.
I would suggest you retire. 2 posts is enough from you.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Now the bells has sounded Jestar has won the fight so please put an end to this endless pathetic diatribe.
The real topic behind all of this, is that our professional renumeration has been and is under attack, and it is due to groups like the IPC allowing management to dictate terms to them.
Now, I'm not attacking your professional standards here. But it sure looks like management are. They obviously don't think you are worth much, do they?
And nor do they think much of the rest of us now, either.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Ahhh. If it isn't the old "lets play the man" ROSTOV again. How are ya mate? Haven't copped any insults from you recently?
Just completed a search on your posts. ALL of them are are insults directed at QF mainline. Turned down were we?
You will be welcome in AIPA, Rostov. There's an old saying:
Just completed a search on your posts. ALL of them are are insults directed at QF mainline. Turned down were we?
You will be welcome in AIPA, Rostov. There's an old saying:
Keep your freinds close; keep your enemies even closer.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Well it would appear that the Impulse pilots (captains only) might be able to realise their TRUE worth in the very near future, as I have been told that the MD rating they hold could be gold in their pockets - around USD9K tax free.
But they`d have to leave Impulse
thereby extricating themselves from this sh!tfight, and perhaps leaving AIPA some more room to manouevere.
Check here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...03#post1226003
This throws an interesting factor into the equation, does it not?!
But they`d have to leave Impulse
thereby extricating themselves from this sh!tfight, and perhaps leaving AIPA some more room to manouevere.Check here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...03#post1226003
This throws an interesting factor into the equation, does it not?!
Last edited by Kaptin M; 14th Mar 2004 at 23:24.