QF Pilots Join the TWU
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QF Pilots Join the TWU
Quite frankly, AIPA have been ineffective in keeping the company wolf from the door on a number of issues.
I’ve investigated joining the TWU and have signed up along with a number of others. These are some of the things they offer us.
Membership Fee $367 a year tax deductible
1 Full Time Barrister
5 Full Time Solicitors
2 Full Time Industrial Officers dedicated to QF
24 hour coverage by TWU and their overseas affiliates
Upon speaking with them, they are very keen to have QF pilots as members and you don’t have to resign from AIPA or advise them.
Guys, it’s good insurance for the money.
It wont be long before the TWU will be acting on pilot members behalf with respect to assignment of LSL and other issues.
If they get enough members then respondency will follow.
Come on, get on board. It’s time for some action.
I’ve investigated joining the TWU and have signed up along with a number of others. These are some of the things they offer us.
Membership Fee $367 a year tax deductible
1 Full Time Barrister
5 Full Time Solicitors
2 Full Time Industrial Officers dedicated to QF
24 hour coverage by TWU and their overseas affiliates
Upon speaking with them, they are very keen to have QF pilots as members and you don’t have to resign from AIPA or advise them.
Guys, it’s good insurance for the money.
It wont be long before the TWU will be acting on pilot members behalf with respect to assignment of LSL and other issues.
If they get enough members then respondency will follow.
Come on, get on board. It’s time for some action.
Evertonian
Bonvol.
Too many years ago, I was but a small part of a push by the TWU to take ASU members into their ranks. The TWU were as keen as mustard and we even had the forms ready to hand out.
When they approached the ACTU to ratify it (or whatever they do?) the ASU got wind of the plan & came out, guns blazing. Suffice to say that it was knocked back by the ACTU.
Now, I have had some dealings with Pilot unions, but never as a member. So, if they are anything like the Labour party's fast track to a federal seat...sorry, ASU, then get all your t's crossed & the i's dotted before you put your name to anything.
Good luck!
Too many years ago, I was but a small part of a push by the TWU to take ASU members into their ranks. The TWU were as keen as mustard and we even had the forms ready to hand out.
When they approached the ACTU to ratify it (or whatever they do?) the ASU got wind of the plan & came out, guns blazing. Suffice to say that it was knocked back by the ACTU.
Now, I have had some dealings with Pilot unions, but never as a member. So, if they are anything like the Labour party's fast track to a federal seat...sorry, ASU, then get all your t's crossed & the i's dotted before you put your name to anything.
Good luck!
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Thanks for that info Buster.
Time will tell how it all pans out and this may not be the magic bullet, however, it can't be any worse than our current situation of owning a cap gun with no caps.
At the very least it will have some Qantas pilots represented by another union.This will be a headache for the company. GD often espouses how he has to deal with 14? unions.
I can see the QF HR/IR department and their pilot manager advisers spending some time in the commission giving evidence in the not too distant future. They are going to love it.
Time will tell how it all pans out and this may not be the magic bullet, however, it can't be any worse than our current situation of owning a cap gun with no caps.
At the very least it will have some Qantas pilots represented by another union.This will be a headache for the company. GD often espouses how he has to deal with 14? unions.
I can see the QF HR/IR department and their pilot manager advisers spending some time in the commission giving evidence in the not too distant future. They are going to love it.
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Bonvol.
Congratulations. At last someone doing something instead of whingeing on Qroom.
If you can get some momentum going it will cause the Co. to sit up and take notice. It would mean no more cosy little group under their control. (And where would they get their Chief Pilots from in future.)
GD will be p*ssed off. So what. Its time to be difficult instead of rolling over for a belly scratch, as always.
Congratulations. At last someone doing something instead of whingeing on Qroom.
If you can get some momentum going it will cause the Co. to sit up and take notice. It would mean no more cosy little group under their control. (And where would they get their Chief Pilots from in future.)
GD will be p*ssed off. So what. Its time to be difficult instead of rolling over for a belly scratch, as always.
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Interesting...........any union is only as strong as its membership and a strong union is usually more of an anchor than an engine.
Look at the baggage handlers for instance.
I've never been a member of a union and never required ones assistance. Just lucky I guess but I don't think it is a step in the right direction at all.
Sorry but Bill Kelty is too fresh in the memory for mine.
The only union pilots in Oz need is to stop prostituting themselves.
Look at the baggage handlers for instance.
I've never been a member of a union and never required ones assistance. Just lucky I guess but I don't think it is a step in the right direction at all.
Sorry but Bill Kelty is too fresh in the memory for mine.
The only union pilots in Oz need is to stop prostituting themselves.
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i'm not into unions, although i was forced to join one once or get another job.
in an industry where management is slowly wringing the pay packet dry it would be folly to not look at ways of protecting your income. we all have bills to pay.
loving to work in an industry is not a benefit, it's a privilege that we all enjoy (it beats working for a living) and we wouldn't trade it for anything. unfortunately these days with the supply of pilots far outstripping the demand, management now has you by the short and curlies.
that's not prostitution by the pilots, that's exploitation of the system by the hirers.
young pilots of today will except lower pay structures because they are used to it from day one at flying school. the culture of little pay for seven days work as a flying instructor rubs off on the student as he goes through his training, he/she will accept anything to get a foot in the door.
exploitation (mainly by flying schools) started to rear its ugly head in the mid seventies as the pilot community started to grow. now it's endemic. now it's entrenched in the airlines.
the seniority system is nearly finished, (if it's not already).
the ability to buy your way into a seat has even been overtaken by having to buy your way into a seat.
i've been told that you even have to buy your own uniforms and pay for renewals and sim time in some cases.
protect yourselves, now.
in an industry where management is slowly wringing the pay packet dry it would be folly to not look at ways of protecting your income. we all have bills to pay.
loving to work in an industry is not a benefit, it's a privilege that we all enjoy (it beats working for a living) and we wouldn't trade it for anything. unfortunately these days with the supply of pilots far outstripping the demand, management now has you by the short and curlies.
that's not prostitution by the pilots, that's exploitation of the system by the hirers.
young pilots of today will except lower pay structures because they are used to it from day one at flying school. the culture of little pay for seven days work as a flying instructor rubs off on the student as he goes through his training, he/she will accept anything to get a foot in the door.
exploitation (mainly by flying schools) started to rear its ugly head in the mid seventies as the pilot community started to grow. now it's endemic. now it's entrenched in the airlines.
the seniority system is nearly finished, (if it's not already).
the ability to buy your way into a seat has even been overtaken by having to buy your way into a seat.
i've been told that you even have to buy your own uniforms and pay for renewals and sim time in some cases.
protect yourselves, now.
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If everyones wages are ultimately going to be low...what exactly are you getting your foot in the door for? Low wages to fly bigger newer planes? They won't be getting their foot in the door for that prestigious (????) well remunerated flying job - because it wont exist!
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Pilots seem to be mistaking 'union' for 'unity'.
People won't accept 'anything' , but I think everyone has their price (so to speak). So the question is (to yourself) ..how low will you go?
If workers did not work for nothing (for example), then the employers next offer would be something more than nothing.
People won't accept 'anything' , but I think everyone has their price (so to speak). So the question is (to yourself) ..how low will you go?
If workers did not work for nothing (for example), then the employers next offer would be something more than nothing.
Bonvol
Have you ever nominated for a position on AIPA's Committee of Management - most of the guys who make a lot of noise about AIPA being ineffective have never got off their backsides to do anything themselves even to the extent of not phoning AIPA to get the facts. They get incensed about what they hear on the rumour mill and then start shooting off their mouth.
I can't see the AWU being more effective than AIPA as they still have to operate within the Industrial laws of our country and as pilots will be a very small fraction of their operation, they won't assign their full resources to solving pilot issues - especially as the rest of their membership believes that we are overpaid and have a dream lifestyle. It will also take a considerable time for the AWU Industrial staff to get their heads around the convoluted workplace agreements (both short haul & long haul) that are in place so they'll be happy to coast along on AIPA's coat-tails and take your subs (easy money - thanks very much).
For those who are junior in their rank (& type) AIPA has achieved a lot of improvements in the last two EBA's. Things aren't perfect, however, the structured approach that AIPA has been conducting over recent years is effective. There is no way that the AWU could have prevented the recent ambush by QF and Impulse pilots over Jetstar because the deal was done before any information got into the public comain.
I believe that GD will be very happy to hear that the pilot ranks have divided ranks even further. GB
Have you ever nominated for a position on AIPA's Committee of Management - most of the guys who make a lot of noise about AIPA being ineffective have never got off their backsides to do anything themselves even to the extent of not phoning AIPA to get the facts. They get incensed about what they hear on the rumour mill and then start shooting off their mouth.
I can't see the AWU being more effective than AIPA as they still have to operate within the Industrial laws of our country and as pilots will be a very small fraction of their operation, they won't assign their full resources to solving pilot issues - especially as the rest of their membership believes that we are overpaid and have a dream lifestyle. It will also take a considerable time for the AWU Industrial staff to get their heads around the convoluted workplace agreements (both short haul & long haul) that are in place so they'll be happy to coast along on AIPA's coat-tails and take your subs (easy money - thanks very much).
For those who are junior in their rank (& type) AIPA has achieved a lot of improvements in the last two EBA's. Things aren't perfect, however, the structured approach that AIPA has been conducting over recent years is effective. There is no way that the AWU could have prevented the recent ambush by QF and Impulse pilots over Jetstar because the deal was done before any information got into the public comain.
I believe that GD will be very happy to hear that the pilot ranks have divided ranks even further. GB
Nunc est bibendum
Got to agree with GB on this one. AIPA may not be perfect but AIPA is at least a bunch of pilots trying to do the best for pilots. You list out the TWUs staff bonvol but neglect to mention how many members they have to cover.
I'd certainly stack up the full time AIPA staff against that list AND they have the advantage of knowing all about the particular interests that affect us as pilots, and ONLY work on those issues. Sure, we may have issues at times with the COM and the way that OUR union works but it is up to US to do something about that.
You expect that the TWU can be more effective at 'protecting' us? I'd say that by the act of jumping ship, you ultimately harm ALL QF pilots far greater than the benefit you perceive you will receive.
Regards,
I'd certainly stack up the full time AIPA staff against that list AND they have the advantage of knowing all about the particular interests that affect us as pilots, and ONLY work on those issues. Sure, we may have issues at times with the COM and the way that OUR union works but it is up to US to do something about that.
You expect that the TWU can be more effective at 'protecting' us? I'd say that by the act of jumping ship, you ultimately harm ALL QF pilots far greater than the benefit you perceive you will receive.
Regards,
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Going Boeing,
I agree that a lot of blokes make a lot of noise but never put their hands up to make a difference. I'm not one of them. I'll leave it at that. Over the past while there has been some pressure to silence the outspoken. This is the way we are supposed to be kept "in Line", with none too veiled threats.
A quick trip for a "chat" would surely follow if I posted some of this stuff on Qrewroom.
It's the TWU by the way not the AWU. A typo on your behalf ?
As for the recent deal with the Jetstar pilots being unavoidable I can't agree with that. The Impulse pilots sure knew about it before it got into the public domain. A confidentiality agreement with AIPA would have got around any delicate discussions. I would allege the co didn't bother talking to AIPA because they didn't need or want to. I do agree we got ambushed and very effectively too. Now we have a deal that only a very junior S/O would even contemplate, effectively a deal you have when you are not having a deal.
BTW, I don't have a beef with the Impulse blokes per se. After all, it was AIPA who didn't want to play ball with them in the first place. A fatal error.
I agree that a lot of blokes make a lot of noise but never put their hands up to make a difference. I'm not one of them. I'll leave it at that. Over the past while there has been some pressure to silence the outspoken. This is the way we are supposed to be kept "in Line", with none too veiled threats.
A quick trip for a "chat" would surely follow if I posted some of this stuff on Qrewroom.
It's the TWU by the way not the AWU. A typo on your behalf ?
As for the recent deal with the Jetstar pilots being unavoidable I can't agree with that. The Impulse pilots sure knew about it before it got into the public domain. A confidentiality agreement with AIPA would have got around any delicate discussions. I would allege the co didn't bother talking to AIPA because they didn't need or want to. I do agree we got ambushed and very effectively too. Now we have a deal that only a very junior S/O would even contemplate, effectively a deal you have when you are not having a deal.
BTW, I don't have a beef with the Impulse blokes per se. After all, it was AIPA who didn't want to play ball with them in the first place. A fatal error.
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What AIPA really needs is an independant President who does not have an interest in progressing into QF. He needs to be paid by us - the Union members- to act in our interest. We also need a lawyer who is useful. Not a hinderance.
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Keg, I believe it's either death by a thousand cuts, of which we have received a goodly amount, or head up a different path.
True, the TWU has to cover some real estate but after reading some of the commission transcripts of recent cases against Qantas I don't see too many QF wins. A pleasant change.
They are keen as mustard and union membership is a free choice nowadays! I'm very impressed by their legal people too. We will see.
True, the TWU has to cover some real estate but after reading some of the commission transcripts of recent cases against Qantas I don't see too many QF wins. A pleasant change.
They are keen as mustard and union membership is a free choice nowadays! I'm very impressed by their legal people too. We will see.
On a number of threads it has been stated that AIPA rejected approaches by the IPG for union coverage. I know for a fact that when CM was president he wanted coverage of all pilots in the Qantas group. Can someone supply the facts of when and why the IPG were rejected. Personally, I can't understand why they or our regional peers would be rejected. GB
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Before you go down the TWU road, I would take a look at your EBA .... who are the organisations that are representative signatories, and therefore allowed to negotiate the EBA?
My guess ---- that would be AIPA and QF. The TWU is not involved in that EBA, therefore they cannot negotiate in regards to it, unless the majority of members involved with both EBA parties agree to transferring representative/ negotiating rights to the EBA from the AIPA to the TWU.
I may be wrong ...... but I know it was tried before with cabin crew at a certain airline. The result was that the TWU could not represent the cabin crew, as the FAAA was the agreed representative association - designated by the EBA to conduct negotiations.
An EBA is between one employee represetative organisation and the company. It cannot be between two employee representative parties and the company. That would involve the original employee representative party (AIPA) agreeing to allow the TWU to be a part of the negotiations.
That is the industrial rules, as I know it from last I was a union rep
My guess ---- that would be AIPA and QF. The TWU is not involved in that EBA, therefore they cannot negotiate in regards to it, unless the majority of members involved with both EBA parties agree to transferring representative/ negotiating rights to the EBA from the AIPA to the TWU.
I may be wrong ...... but I know it was tried before with cabin crew at a certain airline. The result was that the TWU could not represent the cabin crew, as the FAAA was the agreed representative association - designated by the EBA to conduct negotiations.
An EBA is between one employee represetative organisation and the company. It cannot be between two employee representative parties and the company. That would involve the original employee representative party (AIPA) agreeing to allow the TWU to be a part of the negotiations.
That is the industrial rules, as I know it from last I was a union rep
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If you think things are bad now, I promise you they will get worse with 2 or 3 Unions representing you. The irony is.. this (these pages) is just what Management loves, and those of you here are playing their game suggesting you "shop around" for representation. I have said it before, and will again... "We have the labour, they have the Gold, we each want what the other has". Therefore it's Business, and we all understand that.
" It's your right to withhold your labour"
You must unite the WHOLE Qantas group to maintain conditions, and improve those of your colleagues on lesser conditions for the betterment of ALL. Sooner or later you must/will, as a unified group "strike" to stop this concessionary slide, that is the only thing that will make for change for the better. If you dont then you either are to scared to remove your nose from your Trough, or you have forgotten how to (never knew)....or maybe you just dont care!!!...What ever, from what I read here it may be to late as it sounds like you are begining to fractionate, and that my friends is the end!
Good luck...glad this isnt my fight (have already been there) but ultimately these events effect the whole industy. I appreciate this kind of talk often puts People out of their comfort zone., but you must get out of denial.
" It's your right to withhold your labour"
You must unite the WHOLE Qantas group to maintain conditions, and improve those of your colleagues on lesser conditions for the betterment of ALL. Sooner or later you must/will, as a unified group "strike" to stop this concessionary slide, that is the only thing that will make for change for the better. If you dont then you either are to scared to remove your nose from your Trough, or you have forgotten how to (never knew)....or maybe you just dont care!!!...What ever, from what I read here it may be to late as it sounds like you are begining to fractionate, and that my friends is the end!
Good luck...glad this isnt my fight (have already been there) but ultimately these events effect the whole industy. I appreciate this kind of talk often puts People out of their comfort zone., but you must get out of denial.