QF Pilots Join the TWU
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Q-Tee and other interested pilots. I have been watching this debate from the sidelines and can see the problems you face. There is not much faith in the current leaders, maybe this was created by their own doing or perhaps they are suffering the mistrust that unions develop when several officials defect to management thus creating a vacuum of suspicion. I am a LAME and have been involved in unions for some time, mainly as an AMWU official during the eba dispute 2 years ago. You claim that only one union can be a respondent to an award/eba and this fallacy needs immediate correction.
The AMEs at QF are split into 2 unions, the AMWU and the AWU. The AMWU having a slightly higher portion. They attend the same negotiating meetings together, they run joint meetings of members and they co-operate with each other by and large. The AWU is more conservative and during the eba were not advising members to vote no. The AMWU were sending a clear message to the AMEs to reject the earlier offers. An eba needs to be accepted by a majority of employees covered by the agreement, not a majority of members of the main union. Eventually after some disruption the offer increased to a level acceptable to the combined membership of both unions. This gave many AMEs wage rises of up to 40% whilst other unions were taking wage freezes to support managerial bonuses.
Statements such as “we must stick together” don’t really mean much. It might make you feel part of a united stand but viewing the current erosion of pilot wages at mainline operators it looks like you are all going down with the same ship. There are other ships you know. If 25% of the pilots join another union, Qantas and AIPA may not allow them in to negotiate but this is what would happen. The minor union with 25% of the members would issue a directive to all their members asking them to vote no unless they are involved in the negotiations. The airline would have 2 options. Let them in or make sure the 75% in the other union nearly all votes for the agreement. To guarantee the vote gets up, a good offer would be required and instead of a cone of silence being placed on the members, the minor union would be campaigning for the no vote and letting all the pilots know why. Do you think an acceptable offer in this case would be better or worse than before?
Please get your heads out of the sand and don’t be fooled by the warm and fuzzy statements about standing as one. It is invariably the same people making these misleading statements who are always pushing the company point of view. If you suspect your Association is being run by the airline, not the pilots, you will all drown holding each others hands. Look at the recent results delivered and remember that when the airline have only one union to deal with it is very easy to manipulate the system. It is time to start thinking outside the square. Two unions working side by side is not only another solution, it is the best solution.
Good luck
The AMEs at QF are split into 2 unions, the AMWU and the AWU. The AMWU having a slightly higher portion. They attend the same negotiating meetings together, they run joint meetings of members and they co-operate with each other by and large. The AWU is more conservative and during the eba were not advising members to vote no. The AMWU were sending a clear message to the AMEs to reject the earlier offers. An eba needs to be accepted by a majority of employees covered by the agreement, not a majority of members of the main union. Eventually after some disruption the offer increased to a level acceptable to the combined membership of both unions. This gave many AMEs wage rises of up to 40% whilst other unions were taking wage freezes to support managerial bonuses.
Statements such as “we must stick together” don’t really mean much. It might make you feel part of a united stand but viewing the current erosion of pilot wages at mainline operators it looks like you are all going down with the same ship. There are other ships you know. If 25% of the pilots join another union, Qantas and AIPA may not allow them in to negotiate but this is what would happen. The minor union with 25% of the members would issue a directive to all their members asking them to vote no unless they are involved in the negotiations. The airline would have 2 options. Let them in or make sure the 75% in the other union nearly all votes for the agreement. To guarantee the vote gets up, a good offer would be required and instead of a cone of silence being placed on the members, the minor union would be campaigning for the no vote and letting all the pilots know why. Do you think an acceptable offer in this case would be better or worse than before?
Please get your heads out of the sand and don’t be fooled by the warm and fuzzy statements about standing as one. It is invariably the same people making these misleading statements who are always pushing the company point of view. If you suspect your Association is being run by the airline, not the pilots, you will all drown holding each others hands. Look at the recent results delivered and remember that when the airline have only one union to deal with it is very easy to manipulate the system. It is time to start thinking outside the square. Two unions working side by side is not only another solution, it is the best solution.
Good luck
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There already ARE two unions... AIPA, and the Impulse Pilot's Council (in-part AFAP). It's already clear what it's doing for pilots as a whole.
We're being encouraged to 'out-deal' each other. We're seeing it now with Mainline (AIPA) and Impulse (IPC) having to negotiate a 'deal', and in the past with the failed bid (AFAP/EAAPC) for Qantaslink pilots to join mainline.
Multiple unions attempting to represent the one group (Qantas as a whole), simply enables the company to force each union to undercut each other. Where is the protection from that?
It's a classic case of one pilot willing to do it for less to try and get the job. Unions are already placing 'jobs' ahead of 'doing it for less' !! More unions will only exaccerbate that...
Lancer
We're being encouraged to 'out-deal' each other. We're seeing it now with Mainline (AIPA) and Impulse (IPC) having to negotiate a 'deal', and in the past with the failed bid (AFAP/EAAPC) for Qantaslink pilots to join mainline.
Multiple unions attempting to represent the one group (Qantas as a whole), simply enables the company to force each union to undercut each other. Where is the protection from that?
It's a classic case of one pilot willing to do it for less to try and get the job. Unions are already placing 'jobs' ahead of 'doing it for less' !! More unions will only exaccerbate that...
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hmmm
I mentioned on another post the possibility of the TWU. I guess on reflection, I ought to clarify. The union needs to distance itself from the company. No matter what the com at AIPA do, every pilot is on the payroll of the company. An advocate employed to negotiate for the pilot group who doesn't have a cyclic and can't jump ship to management and a few blue collar tricks (Given the bean counters think nothing of the profession of aviation) may see us in a better position.
I really don't understand the problem. An advocate with his or her head around the issues, who is not a line Captain, can't be intimidated. properly supported with legal muscle may mean the "goodwill" extended to the company in the hard times, may be a little more valued.
I really don't understand the problem. An advocate with his or her head around the issues, who is not a line Captain, can't be intimidated. properly supported with legal muscle may mean the "goodwill" extended to the company in the hard times, may be a little more valued.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
An advocate employed to negotiate for the pilot group who doesn't have a cyclic and can't jump ship to management and a few blue collar tricks
If "The Company" sees some industrial advantage in buying out one of those types, they will.
Len Coysh - a non-pilot, full time industrial officer with the AFAP for many years - sold his services to Ansett in the lead up to the 1989 Dispute.
There is nothing wrong with having pilots representing the QF pilot group, as long as they are men (or women) of strong character and principle.
From some of the posts here, it would seem that some of your past execs have NOT been.
Is it a case of "A bad workman always blames his tools"?
The biggest problem has more than likely been the APATHY of the general QF pilot body - preferring to leave matters to others, in this case AIPA.
Now that AIPA hasn't worked out for you, rather than realising it is ALL of YOU who must get off your lazy @sses and get actively INVOLVED, you're looking at trying to push the responsibilty on to someone else....in this case the TWU.
ANYONE - but ME after all, I'm far too busy!!
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Len Coysh...there's a name that will live in aviation infamy for all time.
He did have a sabbatical at Mt Eliza before turned on his past compatriots though. Our blokes jump ship in the same company.
The Kap is right about apathy of the general pilot body though.
It was ever thus, even in the AFAP with the usual suspects doing the heavy lifting.
AIPA is way too close to management IMO. By the time we vote in a new com valuable time will be lost and we may end up just changing deck chairs on the titanic.
A switch to the TWU by a significant number of pilots will at the very least make the company aware we are not "happy to be on the same winning team" to paraphrase our leader.
Who is happy and who is winning I would ask? Not the pilots thats for sure.
He did have a sabbatical at Mt Eliza before turned on his past compatriots though. Our blokes jump ship in the same company.
The Kap is right about apathy of the general pilot body though.
It was ever thus, even in the AFAP with the usual suspects doing the heavy lifting.
AIPA is way too close to management IMO. By the time we vote in a new com valuable time will be lost and we may end up just changing deck chairs on the titanic.
A switch to the TWU by a significant number of pilots will at the very least make the company aware we are not "happy to be on the same winning team" to paraphrase our leader.
Who is happy and who is winning I would ask? Not the pilots thats for sure.
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Fordran, all very eloquent (I must say I found myself thinking this MUST be Management spin) it sounds like the kind of Language used to mollify and confuse.
Standing as one group is anything but "warm & fuzzy" especially when you do not 100% agree with whats being said/done by the Union (and before you say it, there's always going to be something you dont agree with) in this situation, you will find some People take the opportunity and run somewhere else (invariably a nice cosy place, encouraged with open arms by the Company) they blame their actions on everyone/thing but themselves. These types are normally sycophants, unable to avoid the Spotlight any longer, unwilling to contribute, and secretly wanting to make the jump to that cosy place usually under a rock, but looking for the excuse.
When you are standing on the "Picket line", watching the other Group (Union) cross it, and its always going to be the smaller/weaker group doing the crossing or voting "no", we will see how "warm and fuzzy" it feels. While you put your Career & Families future on the line, we will see how moderate you feel.
But then if your with the smaller Union you probably wont find yourself in that situation, will you? and therein lies the attraction for some, and the demise of all.
Fordran, as you stand by your idiom's, right in front of your eyes, the only Ship Sinking (OK 2 Ship's) is the one you rally...why...because "no one is holding hands".
If One lack's faith/respect for their Union Management, stand for office and vote them out!(they are you)
Union Managers going to Company positions has been happening for ever, dont worry about it, and dont try and stir resentment with it, unless...of course you have an agenda.
Lancers got it, bottom line the Co will use one group to lever down (always down) the other....and hello....thats what is happing, right now! and for what ever reason some here are co-operating this.
Standing as one group is anything but "warm & fuzzy" especially when you do not 100% agree with whats being said/done by the Union (and before you say it, there's always going to be something you dont agree with) in this situation, you will find some People take the opportunity and run somewhere else (invariably a nice cosy place, encouraged with open arms by the Company) they blame their actions on everyone/thing but themselves. These types are normally sycophants, unable to avoid the Spotlight any longer, unwilling to contribute, and secretly wanting to make the jump to that cosy place usually under a rock, but looking for the excuse.
When you are standing on the "Picket line", watching the other Group (Union) cross it, and its always going to be the smaller/weaker group doing the crossing or voting "no", we will see how "warm and fuzzy" it feels. While you put your Career & Families future on the line, we will see how moderate you feel.
But then if your with the smaller Union you probably wont find yourself in that situation, will you? and therein lies the attraction for some, and the demise of all.
Fordran, as you stand by your idiom's, right in front of your eyes, the only Ship Sinking (OK 2 Ship's) is the one you rally...why...because "no one is holding hands".
If One lack's faith/respect for their Union Management, stand for office and vote them out!(they are you)
Union Managers going to Company positions has been happening for ever, dont worry about it, and dont try and stir resentment with it, unless...of course you have an agenda.
Lancers got it, bottom line the Co will use one group to lever down (always down) the other....and hello....thats what is happing, right now! and for what ever reason some here are co-operating this.
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In our experience with the TWU, they have been professional and always willing to offer assistance to its members. We have access to Raj Chaudry (0418667058) or any of their other delegates (02 99120700) as matters arose. The TWUs' legal department are experts in Industrial issues and writing EBAs.
The pilots' within these companies looking at joining the TWU, firstly, need to make sure that all pilots are on the same page and most importantly, United. It's up to the pilots within these companies to back each other up, speak through their elected delgates and then the TWU is there with Industrial Relations expertise to give you good advice. The TWU give the pilot body a level playing field when discussing business with their companies. They are effective, one of the countries biggest and well respected.
The TWUs' federal secretary and I will be meeting shortly to discuss a Pilot sub-branch within the TWU (possibly the "TWU Pilots' Association). This is very good news for all pilots'. The TWU has also been approached by other Regional operators in Sydney.
The TWU assisted us in writing an EBA that was more in line with industry standards, unlike the GA Award which we where on. During Horizon, the TWU helped us alot and worked even harder during Horizons' demise to make sure that workers entitlements were intacted. All pilots' had their entitlements paid and the Metro guys who wanted a job with the new company got one (with our EBA intacted), and the ones who didn't got access to voluntary redundancies as per our agreement. This was only possible with the pilots' remaining united and the TWUs' might.
In summary, the TWU is only interested in its' members well being. For any assistance, call Raj and he can point you in my direction if you like.
"We can't change the past, but we can make a difference to the future......TWU"
The pilots' within these companies looking at joining the TWU, firstly, need to make sure that all pilots are on the same page and most importantly, United. It's up to the pilots within these companies to back each other up, speak through their elected delgates and then the TWU is there with Industrial Relations expertise to give you good advice. The TWU give the pilot body a level playing field when discussing business with their companies. They are effective, one of the countries biggest and well respected.
The TWUs' federal secretary and I will be meeting shortly to discuss a Pilot sub-branch within the TWU (possibly the "TWU Pilots' Association). This is very good news for all pilots'. The TWU has also been approached by other Regional operators in Sydney.
The TWU assisted us in writing an EBA that was more in line with industry standards, unlike the GA Award which we where on. During Horizon, the TWU helped us alot and worked even harder during Horizons' demise to make sure that workers entitlements were intacted. All pilots' had their entitlements paid and the Metro guys who wanted a job with the new company got one (with our EBA intacted), and the ones who didn't got access to voluntary redundancies as per our agreement. This was only possible with the pilots' remaining united and the TWUs' might.
In summary, the TWU is only interested in its' members well being. For any assistance, call Raj and he can point you in my direction if you like.
"We can't change the past, but we can make a difference to the future......TWU"
Last edited by Horizon_Pilot; 10th Mar 2004 at 17:24.
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Thanks for the testimonial Horizon Pilot.
I fear though that this battle is pretty well lost for the QF pilots and they will follow the good ship AIPA to the bottom. We are nearly there already and may have even arrived
I fear though that this battle is pretty well lost for the QF pilots and they will follow the good ship AIPA to the bottom. We are nearly there already and may have even arrived
Nunc est bibendum
Bonvol. Whether you think you can or can't.....you're right. If all the members think 'we're done' then we're right. This one ain't over.
Sometimes we just keep aiming the gun at our own foot and pulling the trigger. Opting out of AIPA and moving to the TWU is a great example!
Sometimes we just keep aiming the gun at our own foot and pulling the trigger. Opting out of AIPA and moving to the TWU is a great example!
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Keg, can I translate that as "She'll be right mate?"
And pilots shooting themselves in the foot..yep agree with that too...as a matter of fact....our feet got shot off some time back. The company has now blown off both nads and the ticker shot is in the barrel.
For our sake I hope you are right but I gave up on Santa Claus some time back.
And pilots shooting themselves in the foot..yep agree with that too...as a matter of fact....our feet got shot off some time back. The company has now blown off both nads and the ticker shot is in the barrel.
For our sake I hope you are right but I gave up on Santa Claus some time back.
Nunc est bibendum
Not at all Bonvol. It's actually meant to mean that if you feel that we're defeated (and thus give up fighting) then I can guarantee that we are (or shortly will be) defeated. I put 'opting out' and going to the TWU is an admission of giving up.
Yeah, we've shot ourselves in the foot before but going to the TWU is just another pull of the trigger. The LAMES got some fantastic conditions in their last EBA by being united. They weren't split into different unions and had a steady resolve. Whilst I acknowledge that the resolve articulated by AIPA to the company hasn't been the strongest in the past, I have more faith in this current Pres and some of his crew at being able to negotiate the best outcome possible for all of us than in a couple of seperate pilot groups being able to effect the same change.
There is LOTS of work to be done and this 'war' ain't over yet- although the Jet* battle may be nearly over. All of us working together can get a good outcome. Seperated we're stuffed.
I only put faith in stuff I can put to the test. Robin et al are certainly being put to the test. I'm prepared to back him until he fails that test. I don't see that yet. Sure, it took threats of a SGM to get the info flowing. I'll accept the less than perfect communication in that initial regard as a sign of the rigours of the current negotiations and the actions of a less than united COM. Still, he responded and thats all I can ask!
Stay the course. This one ain't over!
Yeah, we've shot ourselves in the foot before but going to the TWU is just another pull of the trigger. The LAMES got some fantastic conditions in their last EBA by being united. They weren't split into different unions and had a steady resolve. Whilst I acknowledge that the resolve articulated by AIPA to the company hasn't been the strongest in the past, I have more faith in this current Pres and some of his crew at being able to negotiate the best outcome possible for all of us than in a couple of seperate pilot groups being able to effect the same change.
There is LOTS of work to be done and this 'war' ain't over yet- although the Jet* battle may be nearly over. All of us working together can get a good outcome. Seperated we're stuffed.
I only put faith in stuff I can put to the test. Robin et al are certainly being put to the test. I'm prepared to back him until he fails that test. I don't see that yet. Sure, it took threats of a SGM to get the info flowing. I'll accept the less than perfect communication in that initial regard as a sign of the rigours of the current negotiations and the actions of a less than united COM. Still, he responded and thats all I can ask!
Stay the course. This one ain't over!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
If only the majority of pilots employed under the QF name had your attitude and resolve, Keg, the problems raised here would be resolved in a short time.
Hopefully this big wake-up call will make QF pilots realise that you ALL need to take an active interest in what your proposed destiny is if you take NO action.
A few of us were having a discussion about the current attack on the QF pilots' conditions, and the consensus of opinion was that because of the (performance bonus) structuring of upper level management, and the presence of Virgin Blue, any direct confrontation with the pilots is likely to be resolved in short time.
However to prevent the QF group pilots being played off against each other you are all going to need to be unified ie. ONE.
At this time, AIPA alone provides that resource, imo.
Hopefully this big wake-up call will make QF pilots realise that you ALL need to take an active interest in what your proposed destiny is if you take NO action.
A few of us were having a discussion about the current attack on the QF pilots' conditions, and the consensus of opinion was that because of the (performance bonus) structuring of upper level management, and the presence of Virgin Blue, any direct confrontation with the pilots is likely to be resolved in short time.
However to prevent the QF group pilots being played off against each other you are all going to need to be unified ie. ONE.
At this time, AIPA alone provides that resource, imo.
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After the way AIPA supported the AFAP in the dispute Kap I would have thought that would be your last recommendation.
When the chips are down AIPA will fold their tent imo. They have never been put to the test like now and so far I see no indication they have a clue how to get out of this one. The committee is divided on strategy and some of them remind me of deer in the headlights.
It really is time for a change and if it can be done with AIPA then well and good. Past performance would indicate otherwise though. We will see.
When the chips are down AIPA will fold their tent imo. They have never been put to the test like now and so far I see no indication they have a clue how to get out of this one. The committee is divided on strategy and some of them remind me of deer in the headlights.
It really is time for a change and if it can be done with AIPA then well and good. Past performance would indicate otherwise though. We will see.
Nunc est bibendum
Bonvol, what I find interesting in your statements is that you refer to AIPA like it is some benelovent grand parent who will provide us with our needs and when it doesn't, we'll look for someone who can. It is not. WE are AIPA. You and me all the other pilot members. It is US who will make this work. I just hope you've spent as much time and effort conversing with various COM reps getting the full story, letting them know how you feel and letting them know what support they can expect as you have on PPRUNE trying to tell people to jump ship. I know I have!
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Yes, I have Keg and will continue to do so. A number of Com members privately share their concerns about our direction but toe the party line, for now anyway.
I have respect for the 11 who voted in accordance with the directions they were given by the majority of the members. They are in the minority on the Com however. And why the big secret about how the voting goes anyway? If the committee was proud of their work they would have been happy to leave the names up on qrewroom.
Oldmeadow is a professional at destroying union opposition. We wont get a satisfactory result using the Marquis of Queensbury rules with this bloke on the ot
<Pprune ate the rest of my post and no time to complete it now. Agree with Blueloos comments below>
I have respect for the 11 who voted in accordance with the directions they were given by the majority of the members. They are in the minority on the Com however. And why the big secret about how the voting goes anyway? If the committee was proud of their work they would have been happy to leave the names up on qrewroom.
Oldmeadow is a professional at destroying union opposition. We wont get a satisfactory result using the Marquis of Queensbury rules with this bloke on the ot
<Pprune ate the rest of my post and no time to complete it now. Agree with Blueloos comments below>
Last edited by bonvol; 12th Mar 2004 at 05:20.
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Keg,
I have no part in your situation and no real vested interest. I love being able to fly cheaply, but there comes a point at which the bell shaped curve goes titsup and the law of diminishing returns comes into play. I suspect we are well on the way to that point, in terms of the decreasing average experience levels of airline pilots.
But the factor which must concern everybody involved in this is the supply and demand equation, which works in pretty well every other occupation but never really has in airline flying until now. It's that which nullifies your argument about the LAME's achievements in their EBA. There simply isn't a constant supply of wannabe LAME's.
I've stated before that I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner in the airline industry, given the number of wannabees who, having lived on the bones of their arses in traditional GA fashion, are happy to leap into a jet position for less and less reward. For the life of me, I can't see an answer to this at any time, let alone in an industry still so suspicious and divided that the different groups are still hurling abuse at each other.
I wish you luck, but all mainline QF pilots are right to be worried, I fear. The beancounters rule, and until an old adage is proven at the expense of our safety record, things will get worse. The adage? "If you think safety is expensive, wait till you have an accident."
I have no part in your situation and no real vested interest. I love being able to fly cheaply, but there comes a point at which the bell shaped curve goes titsup and the law of diminishing returns comes into play. I suspect we are well on the way to that point, in terms of the decreasing average experience levels of airline pilots.
But the factor which must concern everybody involved in this is the supply and demand equation, which works in pretty well every other occupation but never really has in airline flying until now. It's that which nullifies your argument about the LAME's achievements in their EBA. There simply isn't a constant supply of wannabe LAME's.
I've stated before that I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner in the airline industry, given the number of wannabees who, having lived on the bones of their arses in traditional GA fashion, are happy to leap into a jet position for less and less reward. For the life of me, I can't see an answer to this at any time, let alone in an industry still so suspicious and divided that the different groups are still hurling abuse at each other.
I wish you luck, but all mainline QF pilots are right to be worried, I fear. The beancounters rule, and until an old adage is proven at the expense of our safety record, things will get worse. The adage? "If you think safety is expensive, wait till you have an accident."
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Keg, this rhetoric that we are AIPA is very well and good in the sense that yes it is technically the pilots representing the pilot body, or as the case appears some of the pilots representing themselves and the minority representing the pilot body - whichever way we look at it - the Union is NOT DOING WANT THE PILOTS WANT. WE WANT RESULTS. WE ELECTED PEOPLE TO GET RESULTS FOR US. IT'S NOT HAPPENING. To say that we are AIPA is ridiculous in some senses - we cant control them. We had an SGM last year and they still didnt do what we wanted. A threat of an SGM this year was the only way we appear to be getting a reaction from AIPA - and even then we havent seen anything on a vote for what we want. It will all be over before we even realise that we are roadkill.
Once Jetstar gets up an running its to late./ They can cover our schedules should we choose to take action (approved, or not).
Whilst Dixon is getting his jollys with secretaries, we are getting shafted. He is getting the bonus. Our managers are getting bonus's. Everyones getting bonus's because we are losing conditions.
In the Chief Pilots letter/memo to us the other day, it basically says that we should be happy to accept lower conditions/lower standard hotels - because its good for the companies profit (capitalisation/profit return etc) This coming from our former union president - it didnt take long for a few big $$$$$ to be waived in front of him to change his mind did it.
Ok enough ranting.
Once Jetstar gets up an running its to late./ They can cover our schedules should we choose to take action (approved, or not).
Whilst Dixon is getting his jollys with secretaries, we are getting shafted. He is getting the bonus. Our managers are getting bonus's. Everyones getting bonus's because we are losing conditions.
In the Chief Pilots letter/memo to us the other day, it basically says that we should be happy to accept lower conditions/lower standard hotels - because its good for the companies profit (capitalisation/profit return etc) This coming from our former union president - it didnt take long for a few big $$$$$ to be waived in front of him to change his mind did it.
Ok enough ranting.
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The Mainline QF People desperately need "Scope" on ALL QF operated Jets NOW, the ONLY way to acheive this is "strike", worry about conditions later. To effectively strike you must have a significant portion of the workforce on-side. Sorry I dont subscribe to the "Give me a handful of Men of steel" school. You must be able to significantly disrupt all services, otherwise it's biz as usual. If you are divided, this is not possible, or at least very difficult.
Sounds like some contributors here are only interested in preserving THEIR conditions (screw the rest), I read very little (nothing) on improving Jesters conditions. Ultimatley you must accept your world has changed, focus on Jester conditions with a long term view of meeting over half-way or you will be marginalised.
Dont waste energy on how much Management are getting paid in Bonuses, thats capitalism. and the system we live/work with. cant change it, forget it or you'll develope Cancer.
Consider these headlines "Jetstar announces a further 40 A320's ordered" or "Due to the success of Jetstar, they will now operate 10 ex QF B767's" when you all see wide-body Cmmds up for grabs, but not for you, that will really focus your thoughts & energy, it is still well within your power to prevent these kind of events if managed intelligently, it's far from to late!
I detect more than a little Panic from some here ( I suspect from new-hires) at a time when you need to" think fast and talk slow", not... throw your toys out of the cot. and threaten anarchy.
Bonvol, Blueloo and others, I hope you understand how distructive some of your comments here (publicly) potentially are for your cause. you would do well to listen to KEG & KAP M
Sounds like some contributors here are only interested in preserving THEIR conditions (screw the rest), I read very little (nothing) on improving Jesters conditions. Ultimatley you must accept your world has changed, focus on Jester conditions with a long term view of meeting over half-way or you will be marginalised.
Dont waste energy on how much Management are getting paid in Bonuses, thats capitalism. and the system we live/work with. cant change it, forget it or you'll develope Cancer.
Consider these headlines "Jetstar announces a further 40 A320's ordered" or "Due to the success of Jetstar, they will now operate 10 ex QF B767's" when you all see wide-body Cmmds up for grabs, but not for you, that will really focus your thoughts & energy, it is still well within your power to prevent these kind of events if managed intelligently, it's far from to late!
I detect more than a little Panic from some here ( I suspect from new-hires) at a time when you need to" think fast and talk slow", not... throw your toys out of the cot. and threaten anarchy.
Bonvol, Blueloo and others, I hope you understand how distructive some of your comments here (publicly) potentially are for your cause. you would do well to listen to KEG & KAP M