Happy Australia Day To All.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Asia
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Axle61.
You have fallen hook line and sinker for the greatest of “Bush-isms”.
Why on earth would you conclude that I “support” any of these regimes? I am no fonder of the actions of Howard, Blair and Bush than I am of Hussein.
Hoss.
Great response. You obviously put a great deal of effort into that post.
Pinkparts,
“Ohbehave uppercut yourself, kick yourself square in the nuts then get a one-way ticket on the next plane-load of deportees back to T****y, A*****istan, I**q, I**n, whereever. My shout. "My shout"... another great Aussie tradition!!
Ohbehave what have you ever done for the country apart from whinge about it? Donate half your cash to ATSIC? Ever been out to the communities in the central desert?”
Yes, I have. Thank you for asking.
As a citizen of a democratic country I am perfectly entitled to criticize my elected leaders – some say it is our obligation to constantly question the actions of our Government. You appear to be very uncomfortable with this concept. Unfortunately it is much easier to blindly accept what our leaders tell us isn’t it. After all, analyzing these issues requires too much effort.
You have fallen hook line and sinker for the greatest of “Bush-isms”.
Why on earth would you conclude that I “support” any of these regimes? I am no fonder of the actions of Howard, Blair and Bush than I am of Hussein.
Hoss.
Great response. You obviously put a great deal of effort into that post.
Pinkparts,
“Ohbehave uppercut yourself, kick yourself square in the nuts then get a one-way ticket on the next plane-load of deportees back to T****y, A*****istan, I**q, I**n, whereever. My shout. "My shout"... another great Aussie tradition!!
Ohbehave what have you ever done for the country apart from whinge about it? Donate half your cash to ATSIC? Ever been out to the communities in the central desert?”
Yes, I have. Thank you for asking.
As a citizen of a democratic country I am perfectly entitled to criticize my elected leaders – some say it is our obligation to constantly question the actions of our Government. You appear to be very uncomfortable with this concept. Unfortunately it is much easier to blindly accept what our leaders tell us isn’t it. After all, analyzing these issues requires too much effort.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NSW
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OhBehave,
Speaking of someone like John Howard in the same light as the evil murderer Hussein is not something I'd be too proud of.
Bush, Blair and Howard may not be perfect leaders (is there such a thing?), but at least they don't torture, steal from, use chemical weapons on and murder their own civilians.
Perhaps you don't actually support it, but taking the attitude that:
Saddam only kills his own people, why should we do anything about it?
is just as bad.
I am no fonder of the actions of Howard, Blair and Bush than I am of Hussein.
Bush, Blair and Howard may not be perfect leaders (is there such a thing?), but at least they don't torture, steal from, use chemical weapons on and murder their own civilians.
Why on earth would you conclude that I “support” any of these regimes?
Saddam only kills his own people, why should we do anything about it?
is just as bad.
Last edited by axle61; 28th Jan 2004 at 12:19.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Asia
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Axle61
“Speaking of someone like John Howard in the same light as the evil murderer Hussein is not something I'd be too proud of.
I was not attempting to speak of these people in the “same light”.
“Bush, Blair and Howard may not be perfect leaders (is there such a thing?), but at least they don't torture, steal from, use chemical weapons on and murder their own civilians.”
Bush has signed death warrants for more Americans than anyone except for his brother Jeb.
I suspect if you did a little research about Enron, Tyco and Worldcom you would probably reword your post about stealing.
Also, you may need to reconsider your post with regard to torture. Have you read any UN or HRW reports about the illegal detainees in Gitmo? Are you aware that an oil services company with close ties to Cheney and Bush is about to stand trial for “forced labor, rape, torture -- even killing” in Myanmar.
“Perhaps you don't actually support it, but taking the attitude that:
Saddam only kills his own people, why should we do anything about it?
is just as bad.”
I have in no way indicated that this is my attitude. I do not recall saying we should do nothing about it. Quite the contrary. There is a pressing need for western nations to ensure human rights are guaranteed in all countries, not just those that contain large oil reserves and a France friendly dictator.
In the name of consistency, would you advocate inflicting shock and awe on Colombia, Indonesia, Philippines, Myanmar, the Caucus’s of the former Soviet Union, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan and many others?
Or are commercial interests more important?
I digress. This thread was about Australia day. I just see it as a day that reminds me of how we have let our politicians instill fear and hate into us for reasons many of us don’t understand (including myself) and are allowing a country that was once the most progressive in the world to appear to become a backward xenophobic redneck quasi Americana.
Bring on the missile shield, we are really going to need it.
“Speaking of someone like John Howard in the same light as the evil murderer Hussein is not something I'd be too proud of.
I was not attempting to speak of these people in the “same light”.
“Bush, Blair and Howard may not be perfect leaders (is there such a thing?), but at least they don't torture, steal from, use chemical weapons on and murder their own civilians.”
Bush has signed death warrants for more Americans than anyone except for his brother Jeb.
I suspect if you did a little research about Enron, Tyco and Worldcom you would probably reword your post about stealing.
Also, you may need to reconsider your post with regard to torture. Have you read any UN or HRW reports about the illegal detainees in Gitmo? Are you aware that an oil services company with close ties to Cheney and Bush is about to stand trial for “forced labor, rape, torture -- even killing” in Myanmar.
“Perhaps you don't actually support it, but taking the attitude that:
Saddam only kills his own people, why should we do anything about it?
is just as bad.”
I have in no way indicated that this is my attitude. I do not recall saying we should do nothing about it. Quite the contrary. There is a pressing need for western nations to ensure human rights are guaranteed in all countries, not just those that contain large oil reserves and a France friendly dictator.
In the name of consistency, would you advocate inflicting shock and awe on Colombia, Indonesia, Philippines, Myanmar, the Caucus’s of the former Soviet Union, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan and many others?
Or are commercial interests more important?
I digress. This thread was about Australia day. I just see it as a day that reminds me of how we have let our politicians instill fear and hate into us for reasons many of us don’t understand (including myself) and are allowing a country that was once the most progressive in the world to appear to become a backward xenophobic redneck quasi Americana.
Bring on the missile shield, we are really going to need it.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Axle is playing straight into the hands of the Whitehouse spin-doctors. It is quite possible to be repulsed by the behavior of SH but at the same time be opposed to bombing Iraq as a way of overthrowing a dictator.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: I've got a phat gut
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SO what's your plan then FatEric, ask him politely to leave? Don't recall that working in Kuwait a while back. Ummm... impose sanctions? Hold your breath until he goes?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dunnunda & Godzone
Age: 74
Posts: 4,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Children, children, time for your afternoon naps. I hope you all wake up in a better mood! 
Woomera
Kindergarden Head Teacher
Woomera
Kindergarden Head Teacher
Last edited by Woomera; 29th Jan 2004 at 07:37.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phat Boy,
Maybe the same way they removed Suharto, Marcos, Ceacescu, Batista.......no shock and awe in these cases.
More importantly, what right do we have to decide which dictators to remove and which do we leave in place.
Australian and american troops trained and armed the military involved in the worst case of genocide in history and yet no shock and awe removed him. In fact, our PM described him as "the greatest leader of our time".
We did not go to war for humanitarian reasons - countries only go to battle for reasons of self interest.
Maybe the same way they removed Suharto, Marcos, Ceacescu, Batista.......no shock and awe in these cases.
More importantly, what right do we have to decide which dictators to remove and which do we leave in place.
Australian and american troops trained and armed the military involved in the worst case of genocide in history and yet no shock and awe removed him. In fact, our PM described him as "the greatest leader of our time".
We did not go to war for humanitarian reasons - countries only go to battle for reasons of self interest.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Shea Stadium
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, the UN imposed sanctions on Iraq have killed more people then SH ever did. Between 500,000 to 1,500,000 deaths directly attributed to sanctions – the majority under the age of 5. According to Madeleine Albright, “we think the price was worth it.”
According to Dennis Halliday, UN Assistant Secretary General and Humanitarian Coordinator in Iraq resigned in protest saying, “We are in the process of destroying an entire society……it is illegal and immoral”. His successor, Hans Von Sponeck also resigned for the same reasons.
The proxy multilateralist UN is a weapon of mass destruction.
According to Dennis Halliday, UN Assistant Secretary General and Humanitarian Coordinator in Iraq resigned in protest saying, “We are in the process of destroying an entire society……it is illegal and immoral”. His successor, Hans Von Sponeck also resigned for the same reasons.
The proxy multilateralist UN is a weapon of mass destruction.
