SQ B777 Incident Changi
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SQ B777 Incident Changi
During heavy rain at Changi airport, a SQ B777 partially left the runway last night ending up with three burst tyres. Vis at the time was reported to be 800m with braking action "medium". Runway 20R was closed for a few hours resulting in delays for many flights as the heavy rain persisted and operations on 20L became very congested. Changi runways are no longer grooved (pavement now lasts longer).
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Well this must be something of a record on pprune, OhBehave and his asinine comment managing to turn the thread into a racist one after only one posting !!!
I suggest OhBehave you confine your purile remarks to yourself.
I suggest OhBehave you confine your purile remarks to yourself.
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faheel,
relaaaaaaaaaax...................It is a form of Irony directed at SQ not at Malasians.
I do believe that Ohbehave's comments relate to the official statement made by SQ hours after the Taipei accident that," the Captain wasn't Singaporean".
Perhaps the most distastful, inappropriate and bizarre statements that I have ever heard. I'll never forget it.
relaaaaaaaaaax...................It is a form of Irony directed at SQ not at Malasians.
I do believe that Ohbehave's comments relate to the official statement made by SQ hours after the Taipei accident that," the Captain wasn't Singaporean".
Perhaps the most distastful, inappropriate and bizarre statements that I have ever heard. I'll never forget it.
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Faheel,
My comments were in no way racist. I appologize if my tongue in cheek approach misled you.
The SQ Stuff ups at TPE, TPE again, AKL, KCH and others have all been examples of where SQ management have an uncanny ability to take the easy option of blaming the outcome on a few individuals (especially non Singaporeans lah) instead of taking a closer look at the more important and often causal issues of employment, training standards, flight operations and general operational culture.
I hope that last nights effort (about which I have no info) results in a detailed investigation intended to ensure all involved are striving for worlds best safety practice's.
But I highly doubt it.
My comments were in no way racist. I appologize if my tongue in cheek approach misled you.
The SQ Stuff ups at TPE, TPE again, AKL, KCH and others have all been examples of where SQ management have an uncanny ability to take the easy option of blaming the outcome on a few individuals (especially non Singaporeans lah) instead of taking a closer look at the more important and often causal issues of employment, training standards, flight operations and general operational culture.
I hope that last nights effort (about which I have no info) results in a detailed investigation intended to ensure all involved are striving for worlds best safety practice's.
But I highly doubt it.
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_the gravy™ stroke
yeah faheel... like duhhh.... 
it was pretty obvious to everyone else... you got "small mans" or something??? 
feel like a fa (kin) heel now?!?!?!?!
gravy™
it was pretty obvious to everyone else... you got "small mans" or something??? feel like a fa (kin) heel now?!?!?!?!
gravy™
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Systemic Errors ?
Leaving aside any supposedv racist allegations etc. .......... SQ has a very good safety record (if you exclude Silkair) but it appears the Company may now need to look at some appropriate changes in the light of recent incidents.
For example, it is hard to believe that the Auckland error could ever have occured, i.e. weight calc 100 Ton under actual, leading to a Vr of 33kt under what should have been.
Then I read on Pprune that F/O was very low TT and Captain who apparently has since left SQ, had very low time on 744.
Surely SQ doesn't have a shortage of experienced 747 Captains?
For example, it is hard to believe that the Auckland error could ever have occured, i.e. weight calc 100 Ton under actual, leading to a Vr of 33kt under what should have been.
Then I read on Pprune that F/O was very low TT and Captain who apparently has since left SQ, had very low time on 744.
Surely SQ doesn't have a shortage of experienced 747 Captains?
Last edited by hadagutful; 25th Jan 2004 at 19:34.
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hadagutful,
Have you forgotten about 31st October 2000 in Taipei?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/119957/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/119706/L/
Have you forgotten about 31st October 2000 in Taipei?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/119957/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/119706/L/
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OK, I must admit the the "tongue in cheek" part escaped me at the time I replied.
and I do agree with this part of your reply obehave
"I hope that last nights effort (about which I have no info) results in a detailed investigation intended to ensure all involved are striving for worlds best safety practice's."
In any case I would like to know where Going Boeing got his info, because I have not seen anything on the news or in the papers about this incident
and I do agree with this part of your reply obehave
"I hope that last nights effort (about which I have no info) results in a detailed investigation intended to ensure all involved are striving for worlds best safety practice's."
In any case I would like to know where Going Boeing got his info, because I have not seen anything on the news or in the papers about this incident
Nunc est bibendum
So the barrell roll over the Bay of Bengal and not reporting it until an engineer discovers structural damage on the aircraft days later doesn't count then? What about turning off the hydraulics in climb, realising you've stuffed up, turning them back on, banging people on the ceiling and THEN reporting it to the authorities as 'turbulence'? Does that count as part of the 'very good'. What about a couple of stalls over Iran due to being too heavy and climbing too high? What about landing in Thunderstorms at Changi whilst EVERYONE else is holding. (I just love it when ATC tell me that 'SQ just got in'! 
)
Sure, we all make mistakes and I'm certainly not saying that QF (or DJ or AN before them) is without blemish but if you're going to make a statements like 'SQ has a very good safety record' then you need to be sure of what you're talking about. Reality or the public's perception of it!
Regards,
)Sure, we all make mistakes and I'm certainly not saying that QF (or DJ or AN before them) is without blemish but if you're going to make a statements like 'SQ has a very good safety record' then you need to be sure of what you're talking about. Reality or the public's perception of it!
Regards,
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Keg, words well said.
Have seen the same thing at Changi whilst ourselves and many others were holding, but SQ just fires on in through what was displayed on not only our radar (but everyone elses) as a well defined scalloping magenta return (heavy storm) on finals 02L.
Also we would depart SIN at MTOW ahead of SQ going to LHR with these guys on the same route and same weight (judging by the LHR weather and them being full also).
These guys would climb 2000 ft above us and overtake us while we were at a height and speed which I would feel just comfortable at - no more in smooth air.
Do these guys have different parameters programmed into their software for buffet boundary calculation or OPTIMUM/MAX altitude calculations?
Lets not forget the supposed SQ Captain being marched from the hotel in London by the Met Police for supposedly landing with only a few tonnes of fuel - way below the minimum mandatory Fixed Reserve requirements.
That one never made the press either did it??
Have seen the same thing at Changi whilst ourselves and many others were holding, but SQ just fires on in through what was displayed on not only our radar (but everyone elses) as a well defined scalloping magenta return (heavy storm) on finals 02L.
Also we would depart SIN at MTOW ahead of SQ going to LHR with these guys on the same route and same weight (judging by the LHR weather and them being full also).
These guys would climb 2000 ft above us and overtake us while we were at a height and speed which I would feel just comfortable at - no more in smooth air.
Do these guys have different parameters programmed into their software for buffet boundary calculation or OPTIMUM/MAX altitude calculations?
Lets not forget the supposed SQ Captain being marched from the hotel in London by the Met Police for supposedly landing with only a few tonnes of fuel - way below the minimum mandatory Fixed Reserve requirements.
That one never made the press either did it??
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Not trying to defend SQ here as KEG has hit it on the head re public perception and ACTUAL safety record, however SQ do operate to tighter stall margins than a company like QF (1.2G v 1.3G).
Also, I believe that due to SQ having a dedicated freighters, that they may be at lower weights than other airlines on the same route in many cases.
(Why am I defending SQ??? I gotta up the dosage!!)
Also, I believe that due to SQ having a dedicated freighters, that they may be at lower weights than other airlines on the same route in many cases.
(Why am I defending SQ??? I gotta up the dosage!!)
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Timee said'
Lets not forget the supposed SQ Captain being marched from the hotel in London by the Met Police for supposedly landing with only a few tonnes of fuel - way below the minimum mandatory Fixed Reserve requirements.
Thats a new one on me, since when do the police come and haul you off for landing with less then min fuel in your tanks?
There have been a number of cases at Heathrow where a/c declare an emergency because they have less then min fuel in tanks, Concord springs to mind for one.
Are you telling me that the police go to the Cpts home and haul him off to police station for a please explain?
Sounds like an urban myth to me.
I am not defending SQ, but never let the facts get in the way of a good story huh?
Lets not forget the supposed SQ Captain being marched from the hotel in London by the Met Police for supposedly landing with only a few tonnes of fuel - way below the minimum mandatory Fixed Reserve requirements.
Thats a new one on me, since when do the police come and haul you off for landing with less then min fuel in your tanks?
There have been a number of cases at Heathrow where a/c declare an emergency because they have less then min fuel in tanks, Concord springs to mind for one.
Are you telling me that the police go to the Cpts home and haul him off to police station for a please explain?
Sounds like an urban myth to me.
I am not defending SQ, but never let the facts get in the way of a good story huh?
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1. It was Malaysian that had the arrival fuel problem, like QF before it SQ actually followed their SOP and were legal.
2. Correct, Vs1.2 as oppose to QF Vs1.3 and when heavy that will give a cruise speed of .86.
3. Only one case of buffet and it wasn't altitude it was a failed CADC on the Capt's side that wasn't picked up as quickly as it should have been, it was a very subtle failure and didn't immediately produce the usual warnings.
Nothing like a good yarn though, is there!
2. Correct, Vs1.2 as oppose to QF Vs1.3 and when heavy that will give a cruise speed of .86.
3. Only one case of buffet and it wasn't altitude it was a failed CADC on the Capt's side that wasn't picked up as quickly as it should have been, it was a very subtle failure and didn't immediately produce the usual warnings.
Nothing like a good yarn though, is there!
Tapei and racism
The wording in the press release published on the Singapore Airlines official website in the hours folling the crash stated along the lines of:
"SQ reget to announce the accident at Tapei....(phone number etc etc for relatives).....
The Captain, who had 12000 hours of flying expereince was Malaysian."
"SQ reget to announce the accident at Tapei....(phone number etc etc for relatives).....
The Captain, who had 12000 hours of flying expereince was Malaysian."
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I think the standards need to start at the begining at a certain training school of rote learning. Ask anyone who has worked there, im sure they have a story or 10 to tell ! As I understand some of the Malaysians actually were the better pilots for no other reason then they wanted to fly, unlike their singaporean counterparts that probably wished they had been doctors. I understand at one time weeding the chilli patch was a good career move.
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Yes the error on the t/o data in AKL could off and has happened in other airlines.
I believe the big mistake was during the following approach to land, yes he thought he had a tail pipe fire but he just about lost it over Manakau city and because he was trying to rush a landing he had to carry out a goaround. Waisting far more time than if he had just done a normal circuit/ ILS and landed.
Edited to sound more humble lest it happen to me one day!
I believe the big mistake was during the following approach to land, yes he thought he had a tail pipe fire but he just about lost it over Manakau city and because he was trying to rush a landing he had to carry out a goaround. Waisting far more time than if he had just done a normal circuit/ ILS and landed.
Edited to sound more humble lest it happen to me one day!
Last edited by flyingkiwi; 29th Jan 2004 at 01:25.
All the 'armchair experts' starting to appear!
It is easy to be critical with hindsight. We all like to think that given the same set of circumstances, we would perform like an ace. In 28 years of flying, I have never been faced with a 'real emergency'. I hope that I can handle it well when and if that day ever comes.
Despite all the training, unless faced with these situations regularly, none of us knows what we will do on the day.
Although one thing is certain. There will be plenty of experts prepared to tell you what you should have done!
It is easy to be critical with hindsight. We all like to think that given the same set of circumstances, we would perform like an ace. In 28 years of flying, I have never been faced with a 'real emergency'. I hope that I can handle it well when and if that day ever comes.
Despite all the training, unless faced with these situations regularly, none of us knows what we will do on the day.
Although one thing is certain. There will be plenty of experts prepared to tell you what you should have done!
