Toilet Queues a Terrorist Threat ??
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Toilet Queues a Terrorist Threat ??
Someone please tell me that this isn't true. My friend has told me that she has heard a lot of chat on talk back radio about airlines wanting to limit toilet queues on long haul flights to two people because more than that is a security threat.
People, it's time to stop living your lives in the fear that the security industry thrives on, and look at reality – I am yet to see an aeroplane disaster that was caused by long toilet queues
People, it's time to stop living your lives in the fear that the security industry thrives on, and look at reality – I am yet to see an aeroplane disaster that was caused by long toilet queues
I think you could even go one step further and ask if all the "new" security measures implemented since 11 Sept 2001 would have stopped the events of that day occurring?
The answer is a resounding NO.
On one point alone, broken wine bottles make effective weapons.
I am not saying we do nothing but some of the BS that DOTARS has thrown up is just ridiculous. There are more holes in the security net of aviation than you could list, or would want to list. We know where they are, Mr Anderson knows where they are. He needs to be seen to do something, anything. That is government mentality. So that when the next hijack occurs and it will. They can put their hand on their black heart and say that they did something. Ineffectual, misdirected, expensive and self-serving but they did something.
The answer is a resounding NO.
On one point alone, broken wine bottles make effective weapons.
I am not saying we do nothing but some of the BS that DOTARS has thrown up is just ridiculous. There are more holes in the security net of aviation than you could list, or would want to list. We know where they are, Mr Anderson knows where they are. He needs to be seen to do something, anything. That is government mentality. So that when the next hijack occurs and it will. They can put their hand on their black heart and say that they did something. Ineffectual, misdirected, expensive and self-serving but they did something.
This is something that the US authorities have thought up, not the airlines or Australian authorities. If Dotars are mandating it, it is because of the US, yet again:
The following United States Government Security Directive has been received. This Directive is binding on ****** Airways as to outcome.
Quote:
'The pilot of the aircraft must make a pre-flight announcement requesting the cooperation of all passengers to not congregate in groups in any area of the aircraft cabin, especially around lavatories. The pilot should repeat the announcement in-flight, as the pilot deems appropriate.'
Unquote.
Action
Captains of all passenger flights originating in, transiting through or departing for the United States of America are to make the following Public Address Announcement:
'Ladies and Gentlemen, I am required by the United States Government to instruct you that congregating in groups in the aisle, galley or toilet areas during the flight is not permitted', or
words to that effect.
Hopefully, this will be the last of such mandated requirements.
Captain ******** ******
General Manager Operations
The following United States Government Security Directive has been received. This Directive is binding on ****** Airways as to outcome.
Quote:
'The pilot of the aircraft must make a pre-flight announcement requesting the cooperation of all passengers to not congregate in groups in any area of the aircraft cabin, especially around lavatories. The pilot should repeat the announcement in-flight, as the pilot deems appropriate.'
Unquote.
Action
Captains of all passenger flights originating in, transiting through or departing for the United States of America are to make the following Public Address Announcement:
'Ladies and Gentlemen, I am required by the United States Government to instruct you that congregating in groups in the aisle, galley or toilet areas during the flight is not permitted', or
words to that effect.
Hopefully, this will be the last of such mandated requirements.
Captain ******** ******
General Manager Operations
PPRuNe's Paramedic
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other couple of remedies
.... put more loos in! especially out of Bali and Africa!!!!
increase the space between seats so you dont have to plan those loo breaks 1/2 hour before you need to clamber over the punters next to you ....
and for the lads.... no reading in the loos!
.... put more loos in! especially out of Bali and Africa!!!!
increase the space between seats so you dont have to plan those loo breaks 1/2 hour before you need to clamber over the punters next to you ....
and for the lads.... no reading in the loos!
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The whole thing is ridiculous!
What about the almost 'self-serve' bar area now on Q (and a lot of other airlines)? BA has a self-serve snack bar! If it's not the toilets, it will be the aisles, or the bottom of the stairs, or the bulkheads...
Doesn't it contravene their own consitutional right to free assembly anyway?!
Wouldn't it be great if the airlines could just say NO.
Lancer
What about the almost 'self-serve' bar area now on Q (and a lot of other airlines)? BA has a self-serve snack bar! If it's not the toilets, it will be the aisles, or the bottom of the stairs, or the bulkheads...
Doesn't it contravene their own consitutional right to free assembly anyway?!
Wouldn't it be great if the airlines could just say NO.
Lancer
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Wed "Sydney Morning Herald"
Attention, passengers: queuing for the loo is forbidden for 14 hours
By Robert Wainwright and Joseph Kerr
January 7, 2004
Qantas passengers have been ordered not to queue outside toilets while making the 14-hour flight to and from the US.
The directive was issued late yesterday by the US Transport and Security Administration, which is demanding pilots make a pre-flight announcement banning passengers from "congregating in groups around toilets or anywhere else in the aircraft".
Flight attendants will be expected to police the toilets, including checking every two hours for "suspicious packages".
Last night, Qantas confirmed the directive - also issued to flights travelling to and from Europe - without commenting on how it would affect thousands aboard the 37 flights each week to the US.
This came as the US began fingerprinting and photographing visitors from all but 28 exempted countries, Australia included, at 115 airports and 14 ports.
The chief executive of the Board of Airline Representatives of Australia, Warren Bennett, criticised the US directive on toilets.
"It gives the impression paranoia is taking over, and is going to place enormous stress on flight crew to be toilet police and serve passengers," Mr Bennett said.
"Passengers are caught between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, they are advised to move around an aircraft during flights for health reasons; but now they are being told not to congregate. It doesn't make sense."
In other developments, flights between Australia and the US will continue without sky marshals until at least next month.
Despite agreement on the marshals' necessity and cost, the Customs Minister, Chris Ellison, is preparing to go on holidays without finalising terms.
Qantas also signalled yesterday it would provide more up-to-date information on request about passengers travelling to the US.
Basic passenger manifests are provided routinely to the US after flights leave their originating ports, says Jock Ritch, a spokesman for CPS Systems, which screens Australia-bound passengers for the Federal Government.
In recent weeks the US has intensified its efforts to get information on incoming travellers by seeking passenger information on flights coming from foreign ports just before they leave, he said. Qantas's security chief, Geoff Askew, said the airline would provide passenger information to the US faster if required.
==========================================
Attention, passengers: queuing for the loo is forbidden for 14 hours
By Robert Wainwright and Joseph Kerr
January 7, 2004
Qantas passengers have been ordered not to queue outside toilets while making the 14-hour flight to and from the US.
The directive was issued late yesterday by the US Transport and Security Administration, which is demanding pilots make a pre-flight announcement banning passengers from "congregating in groups around toilets or anywhere else in the aircraft".
Flight attendants will be expected to police the toilets, including checking every two hours for "suspicious packages".
Last night, Qantas confirmed the directive - also issued to flights travelling to and from Europe - without commenting on how it would affect thousands aboard the 37 flights each week to the US.
This came as the US began fingerprinting and photographing visitors from all but 28 exempted countries, Australia included, at 115 airports and 14 ports.
The chief executive of the Board of Airline Representatives of Australia, Warren Bennett, criticised the US directive on toilets.
"It gives the impression paranoia is taking over, and is going to place enormous stress on flight crew to be toilet police and serve passengers," Mr Bennett said.
"Passengers are caught between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, they are advised to move around an aircraft during flights for health reasons; but now they are being told not to congregate. It doesn't make sense."
In other developments, flights between Australia and the US will continue without sky marshals until at least next month.
Despite agreement on the marshals' necessity and cost, the Customs Minister, Chris Ellison, is preparing to go on holidays without finalising terms.
Qantas also signalled yesterday it would provide more up-to-date information on request about passengers travelling to the US.
Basic passenger manifests are provided routinely to the US after flights leave their originating ports, says Jock Ritch, a spokesman for CPS Systems, which screens Australia-bound passengers for the Federal Government.
In recent weeks the US has intensified its efforts to get information on incoming travellers by seeking passenger information on flights coming from foreign ports just before they leave, he said. Qantas's security chief, Geoff Askew, said the airline would provide passenger information to the US faster if required.
==========================================
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I can just see the horror on FA's faces when the "Occupied" light extinguishes and there is a sudden rush for the lav by many people from several directions...a well thought out security enhancement... 
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Perhaps passengers could take a ticket and when it's your turn an announcement would be made over the P.A 
If it only allows for one at a time, I guess the days of the 'Mile High Club' are numbered!
If it only allows for one at a time, I guess the days of the 'Mile High Club' are numbered!
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What on Earth is the logic for it anyway? 
They want to prevent passengers from hanging around in groups, like the terrorists or someone are going to meet outside the toilets to plan their hijacking.
IF they are serious, it would be more of a problem what passengers (terrorists) are doing IN the toilet, out of view.
They should instead bring in a rule that every time a passenger visits the toilet, they are accompanied by a crew member, to make sure that they are not up to anything. (pardon the pun).
They want to prevent passengers from hanging around in groups, like the terrorists or someone are going to meet outside the toilets to plan their hijacking.
IF they are serious, it would be more of a problem what passengers (terrorists) are doing IN the toilet, out of view.
They should instead bring in a rule that every time a passenger visits the toilet, they are accompanied by a crew member, to make sure that they are not up to anything. (pardon the pun).
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Ushuaia,
You summed it up exactly mate.
Why not modify the seat control consols to include a dunny request button which queues you to the next avaiable loo. Have an overhead display come up with your seat number to tell you it's you're turn. Too bad if you're in seat A or K (cattle class) during meal times though, it's a ****** moving all those drinks and meal trays as you try and scramble over your fellow travellers.
For those with a perhaps an alcohol or altitude induced case of constipation, will the skymarshals be kicking the dunny doors down with Gloks drawn? screaming "too long @arsehole, get back to your seat"
One has to wonder how is all this going to tie in with the airline health advisory wrt DVT prevention where it tells us to get up and take a walk at least every two hours. Not unusual for other pax doing the same to wander down the back where there is a bit of room to have a stretch and look out the window. Hmm maybe they will mandate only clockwise down the aisles (applicable to wide bodied jets only) to stop the possibility of two persons meeting, stopping and heaven forbid, discussing anything untowards.
Yup, Al Queda really achieved its aim.
You summed it up exactly mate.
Why not modify the seat control consols to include a dunny request button which queues you to the next avaiable loo. Have an overhead display come up with your seat number to tell you it's you're turn. Too bad if you're in seat A or K (cattle class) during meal times though, it's a ****** moving all those drinks and meal trays as you try and scramble over your fellow travellers.
For those with a perhaps an alcohol or altitude induced case of constipation, will the skymarshals be kicking the dunny doors down with Gloks drawn? screaming "too long @arsehole, get back to your seat"
One has to wonder how is all this going to tie in with the airline health advisory wrt DVT prevention where it tells us to get up and take a walk at least every two hours. Not unusual for other pax doing the same to wander down the back where there is a bit of room to have a stretch and look out the window. Hmm maybe they will mandate only clockwise down the aisles (applicable to wide bodied jets only) to stop the possibility of two persons meeting, stopping and heaven forbid, discussing anything untowards.
Yup, Al Queda really achieved its aim.
Bottums Up
Talk about paranoia. Where's Ozzie & Black Sabbath????
This utter cr@p makes Bill Leak's cartoon the the Weekend Australian all the more prophetic.
When are the American's going to wake up to what they're doing to the world. They'll be sh!t scared of their own shaddow soon. probably already are! 
This utter cr@p makes Bill Leak's cartoon the the Weekend Australian all the more prophetic.
When are the American's going to wake up to what they're doing to the world. They'll be sh!t scared of their own shaddow soon.
probably already are!
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The American's at their best.
If we can't meet in groups at the toilet then why are they seating us together in groups of hundreds?
Tell the Americans to F^CK OFF. They think they are the world police and world authority in EVERYTHING.
There's going too far and then you fall off the edge of the world and the yanks have certainly done that.
What next? Individual seats in fully enclosed cage? No more than 2 people seats next to each other with a row gap between them?
First the Air marshalls with their special bullets, now no congregating in groups? Come on and give us a break.
YANKS
If we can't meet in groups at the toilet then why are they seating us together in groups of hundreds?
Tell the Americans to F^CK OFF. They think they are the world police and world authority in EVERYTHING.
There's going too far and then you fall off the edge of the world and the yanks have certainly done that.
What next? Individual seats in fully enclosed cage? No more than 2 people seats next to each other with a row gap between them?
First the Air marshalls with their special bullets, now no congregating in groups? Come on and give us a break.
YANKS
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The biggest threat....
would be that the person next to you doesnt get to the dunny in time..... woof 
.....and you have to put up with that for the rest of the flight!
The queues form just after the meal remains are collected, very predictably because 1/2 the pax are asleep
before that that and the other 1/2 can't get to the dunny with the food trolly blocking the aisle for a 1/2 hour prior to the food being delivered 
, then as someone pointed out, your stuck in your seat until the trays are collected again 
and the aisle is blocked by the trolly..... still 
There is also the thought that many ppl get up and go for a walk, something to do with the advice about avoiding DVT and often these ppl gather in groups at the emergency exit doors, where there is a little space, and potentially something dangerous to do, like open the door! I havent heard of this mentioned yet?
.....and you have to put up with that for the rest of the flight!The queues form just after the meal remains are collected, very predictably because 1/2 the pax are asleep
before that that and the other 1/2 can't get to the dunny with the food trolly blocking the aisle for a 1/2 hour prior to the food being delivered , then as someone pointed out, your stuck in your seat until the trays are collected again and the aisle is blocked by the trolly..... still There is also the thought that many ppl get up and go for a walk, something to do with the advice about avoiding DVT and often these ppl gather in groups at the emergency exit doors, where there is a little space, and potentially something dangerous to do, like open the door! I havent heard of this mentioned yet?
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KDFX News
FLIGHT DISTURBANCE
Wednesday, January 07, 2004
A female passenger on an American Airlines flight from Miami to Los Angeles was taken into custody last night when the plane landed at LAX. Airport officials say the unidentified woman was aboard American Flight 823 when she reportedly attacked a flight attendant.
An airport official says the problem started when the attendant told the woman she couldn`t stand beside a lavatory near the cockpit due to security issues. That`s when a witness reportedly said he heard screaming and saw two women in a scuffle. The passenger was taken into custody by the FBI when the plane landed. She was released because the incident was not viewed as a security issue.
=========================================
FLIGHT DISTURBANCE
Wednesday, January 07, 2004
A female passenger on an American Airlines flight from Miami to Los Angeles was taken into custody last night when the plane landed at LAX. Airport officials say the unidentified woman was aboard American Flight 823 when she reportedly attacked a flight attendant.
An airport official says the problem started when the attendant told the woman she couldn`t stand beside a lavatory near the cockpit due to security issues. That`s when a witness reportedly said he heard screaming and saw two women in a scuffle. The passenger was taken into custody by the FBI when the plane landed. She was released because the incident was not viewed as a security issue.
=========================================
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So after the following incident that Wirraway reported they issue the statement about congesting outside a loo but after this incident they let it go because it wasn't considered a threat?
THe Yanks really need to start thinking for themselves and not let the bureaucratic (sp?) government make stupid decisions for them. It makes them both look dumb.
To follow on the same subject does this now mean that a family of say mum, dad and the two babies can't queue for toilet?
Do they think the baby will whip out his dummy and attack the nearest hostie?
THe Yanks really need to start thinking for themselves and not let the bureaucratic (sp?) government make stupid decisions for them. It makes them both look dumb.
To follow on the same subject does this now mean that a family of say mum, dad and the two babies can't queue for toilet?
Do they think the baby will whip out his dummy and attack the nearest hostie?
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The fact that the so-called civilised world is carrying on like this at all just shows that the terrorists have won. Terrorists win by dumb people acting merely on the threat of terror, and this is the best example of it.
I am glad to see so many people reading this and beginning to draw the line in the sand as to how much freedom governments can take from us.
Personally if a power mad FA came up to me and asked me not to congregate in groups, I would tell her to ****** off and go read George Orwells 1984.
I am glad to see so many people reading this and beginning to draw the line in the sand as to how much freedom governments can take from us.
Personally if a power mad FA came up to me and asked me not to congregate in groups, I would tell her to ****** off and go read George Orwells 1984.
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Few of points. First, if there is a terrorist has made it onto the aircraft and is intending to bomb the dunnies, there have been far more serious breaches of security occuring before the aircraft even moved. Same applies to having armed marshalls on aircraft. If the baddies have got that far given all the security in place, there are much bigger problems on the ground.
Second, this is no more stupid than the Australian Govt charging pilots $200 to pay for a security vetting prior to getting a new photo license. It implies that aust pilots are a security risk already.
Given the number of lavs available in some aircraft, especially 777's, it's basically a case of wait or wet. Those long flights to Dubai last year were the pits
RMA
Second, this is no more stupid than the Australian Govt charging pilots $200 to pay for a security vetting prior to getting a new photo license. It implies that aust pilots are a security risk already.
Given the number of lavs available in some aircraft, especially 777's, it's basically a case of wait or wet. Those long flights to Dubai last year were the pits
RMA
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My only comment to this latest edict from some obviously non aviating intellectual pygmy is that he/she needs to have a Bex and a good lie down.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
No dunny queues allowed?
That sounds like a load of crap to me.
This proposal is conclusive evidence that the lunatics are running the asylum, and the rest of the world should treat the American authorities with the contempt that they now deserve.
That sounds like a load of crap to me.
This proposal is conclusive evidence that the lunatics are running the asylum, and the rest of the world should treat the American authorities with the contempt that they now deserve.