Jeppesen, Where Are My NAS Maps??
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Jeppesen, Where Are My NAS Maps??
Less than two weeks to go and still no Jepp maps or ATC amendment. Great preparation time for the most significant (ridiculous and dangerous) change to the way I do business ever...
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I hear that ASA are in legal dispute about the data; ASA want's to charge for their Interlectual Property; Jepps say it's not yours it in the public domain so therefore it is everyone's data. Nobody else in the world charges for this information...
ASA counter with; you get it wrong and don't cross check thoroughly; part of what you pay for would be an auditable release of data.
Bottle of Rum
ASA counter with; you get it wrong and don't cross check thoroughly; part of what you pay for would be an auditable release of data.
Bottle of Rum
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They have a lot of highly paid people (mostly in CB) sitting around thinking this stuff up (gotta justify their existence somehow). Good to see it's not just aussies who think it strange that a National public service (ATC) is actually a business. Even the yanks don't consider their ATC and airspace a "business".
As an aside- another court case AsA will lose (have they ever won one ?) Is anyone ever made accountable for the $quillions AsA waste on lawyers each year? Your taxes at work
That could be a whole Senate Enquiry on it's own.
As an aside- another court case AsA will lose (have they ever won one ?) Is anyone ever made accountable for the $quillions AsA waste on lawyers each year? Your taxes at work
That could be a whole Senate Enquiry on it's own.
Hmmm... got my big wad of new Jepps in the mail today, complete with this covering note:
The enclosed Jeppesen Enroute and Area charts include the Australian "NAS Implementation Stage 2B Airspace changes" effective 27 NOV 03. All indications are that the implementation is progressing on schedule. However Jeppesen has received informal comments from several Australian pilots that the possibility of a postponement exists.
We have no formal information that a postponement is even being considered by Airservices. But, just in case a last minute postponement is necessary, please retain your existing Jeppesen Enroute and Area charts for possible use past 27 NOV 03."
Watch this space....
The enclosed Jeppesen Enroute and Area charts include the Australian "NAS Implementation Stage 2B Airspace changes" effective 27 NOV 03. All indications are that the implementation is progressing on schedule. However Jeppesen has received informal comments from several Australian pilots that the possibility of a postponement exists.
We have no formal information that a postponement is even being considered by Airservices. But, just in case a last minute postponement is necessary, please retain your existing Jeppesen Enroute and Area charts for possible use past 27 NOV 03."
Watch this space....
ASA are not the first AIS provider to try and "do a deal" with Jeppesen over this - it will get put in the 'too hard' tray. Jeppesen have not had a good year, though, with regard to the handling and dissemination of data - a lot of holes in their electronic database updates
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TopperHarley, - - Do you have some axe to grind with Jeppesen?
I would say that one of the MAJOR benefits of Jepp compared to Airservices charts is that they almost NEVER issue "amendments", but send NEW pages instead.
I've just received my package, and while it's large and will take more than a few minutes to install, it has ALL NEW Enroute charts and ALL NEW Area charts.
(No financial connection with Jeppesen other than a (mainly) satisfied customer).
I would say that one of the MAJOR benefits of Jepp compared to Airservices charts is that they almost NEVER issue "amendments", but send NEW pages instead.
I've just received my package, and while it's large and will take more than a few minutes to install, it has ALL NEW Enroute charts and ALL NEW Area charts.
(No financial connection with Jeppesen other than a (mainly) satisfied customer).
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Anyone who thinks Jepps are lacking in any way obviously never had the pleasure of doing DCA/CAA (and AirServices) amendments over the years.
You'd set yourself up with a paper punch (and a spare plastic ring set for when the little knobs or rings broke off) since holes often didn't align from one page to the next, let alone between amendments.
Often an amended amendment page would preceed the usual pile of amendment pages - even saw the occasional amended amended amendment all in the same envelope!
Jepps' Chart Notams might be the biggest annoyance, but since the raw data is probably sourced via CASA/AirServices, then what else can we expect?
Changing to Jepps was like checking into the Ritz after overnighting at Fawlty Towers.
You'd set yourself up with a paper punch (and a spare plastic ring set for when the little knobs or rings broke off) since holes often didn't align from one page to the next, let alone between amendments.
Often an amended amendment page would preceed the usual pile of amendment pages - even saw the occasional amended amended amendment all in the same envelope!
Jepps' Chart Notams might be the biggest annoyance, but since the raw data is probably sourced via CASA/AirServices, then what else can we expect?
Changing to Jepps was like checking into the Ritz after overnighting at Fawlty Towers.
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Mooney Driver - Yes I do have a bit of an axe to grind. My work requires me to use Jepp docs and I dont really like em. The approach charts I dont have much of a problem with - After a few beers I might even admit to liking them.
However, when operating domesticly, I find the charts cluttered, on dodgy paper (dont last as long) and usually quite old (reguiring many pen ammendments). The aerodrome directory is also $hit compared to the ERSA.
How often to ASA update their ERC charts ?
How often do Jeppesen update their ERC charts ?
Now let me see.... If Jeppesen dont update when a new ASA chart comes out, then the Jepp chart is probably not up to speed. But its OK casue they issue chart NOTAMS for you to make pen ammendments.
Can anyone honestly say that they make all the Chart Notam pen ammendments ??
Ive never met one. When I ask the question I usually get either:
1) A funny look followed suggesting they dont know what im talking about.
or
2) "Hmm Yeah I kida look at the chart notams but never get much further than that"
However, when operating domesticly, I find the charts cluttered, on dodgy paper (dont last as long) and usually quite old (reguiring many pen ammendments). The aerodrome directory is also $hit compared to the ERSA.
How often to ASA update their ERC charts ?
How often do Jeppesen update their ERC charts ?
Now let me see.... If Jeppesen dont update when a new ASA chart comes out, then the Jepp chart is probably not up to speed. But its OK casue they issue chart NOTAMS for you to make pen ammendments.
Can anyone honestly say that they make all the Chart Notam pen ammendments ??
Ive never met one. When I ask the question I usually get either:
1) A funny look followed suggesting they dont know what im talking about.
or
2) "Hmm Yeah I kida look at the chart notams but never get much further than that"
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Well, it has been my experience that Jeppesen issue new charts MORE frequently than ASA.
I also find the thin, Jeppesen paper to be MORE durable than that of ASA charts.
A far as chart notams go, I have NEVER seen more than 2 pages of chart notams, and often only one. I just quickly scan the page of chart notams when it arrives. I can usually pick any that might apply to my travels over the next 2 week period. In my case, there usually aren't any, but if there are, I can enter those that do apply, or simply remember to refer to them at the appropriate time.
YMMV of course.
I also find the thin, Jeppesen paper to be MORE durable than that of ASA charts.
A far as chart notams go, I have NEVER seen more than 2 pages of chart notams, and often only one. I just quickly scan the page of chart notams when it arrives. I can usually pick any that might apply to my travels over the next 2 week period. In my case, there usually aren't any, but if there are, I can enter those that do apply, or simply remember to refer to them at the appropriate time.
YMMV of course.
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PGH,
I think you may be missing the point. Jeppesen service does not require AMENDMENT of charts, - NEW charts are issued, - easy! Just need to throw the old ones away and replace with new ones.
As for cost, the last time I checked, the Jeppesen service was CHEAPER than ASA. (Even if Jepps were 50% more, I'd probably stay with them for the convenience and quality).
I think you may be missing the point. Jeppesen service does not require AMENDMENT of charts, - NEW charts are issued, - easy! Just need to throw the old ones away and replace with new ones.
As for cost, the last time I checked, the Jeppesen service was CHEAPER than ASA. (Even if Jepps were 50% more, I'd probably stay with them for the convenience and quality).
