Skimpy and Airbus
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Skimpy and Airbus
Just got an email from a mate citing that "Aviation sage" Geoffery Thomas..... details below:
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Airbus set to scoop Qantas order for low-fare lift
Dateline: Wednesday November 05, 2003
Qantas appears to have selected the A320/A321 family for its new low-cost airline, dubbed Skimpy internally.
In a tight delivery program, the airline wants to take up to 20 aircraft by mid-2004. While the type will be new to Qantas Group, the low-cost unit will subcontract many of its functions.
ANZ has just taken delivery of the first of 15 A320s and has lower labor costs than Qantas. The New Zealand carrier already is performing maintenance and refit for Qantas on its 747s. There is also a pool of A320 pilots still unemployed after the collapse of Ansett, while others who have secured employment offshore would like to return to Australia.
Qantas is keen to have a point of difference to low-cost rival Virgin Blue, which operates the 737-800, as Boeing cannot deliver its proposed 737-900X, which has economics closer to the A321, until late 2005.
Qantas officials said the bidding process is not finished and a decision will not be announced until late next week. But insiders tell ATWOnline that Boeing will have to perform magic to rescue the order as "the Airbus deal is outstanding."--Geoffrey Thomas
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I guess Airbus still have a "buy one get one free" program happening.
While it seems at odds with an "economies of scale" argument at the mostly Boeing parent company, the marketing gurus would be pleased with the "product differentiation" premise.
If this announcement is indeed made next week I guess the VB recruitment department may also breathe a sigh of relief, if the comments on other threads are to be believed.
***************************************************
Airbus set to scoop Qantas order for low-fare lift
Dateline: Wednesday November 05, 2003
Qantas appears to have selected the A320/A321 family for its new low-cost airline, dubbed Skimpy internally.
In a tight delivery program, the airline wants to take up to 20 aircraft by mid-2004. While the type will be new to Qantas Group, the low-cost unit will subcontract many of its functions.
ANZ has just taken delivery of the first of 15 A320s and has lower labor costs than Qantas. The New Zealand carrier already is performing maintenance and refit for Qantas on its 747s. There is also a pool of A320 pilots still unemployed after the collapse of Ansett, while others who have secured employment offshore would like to return to Australia.
Qantas is keen to have a point of difference to low-cost rival Virgin Blue, which operates the 737-800, as Boeing cannot deliver its proposed 737-900X, which has economics closer to the A321, until late 2005.
Qantas officials said the bidding process is not finished and a decision will not be announced until late next week. But insiders tell ATWOnline that Boeing will have to perform magic to rescue the order as "the Airbus deal is outstanding."--Geoffrey Thomas
****************************************************
I guess Airbus still have a "buy one get one free" program happening.
While it seems at odds with an "economies of scale" argument at the mostly Boeing parent company, the marketing gurus would be pleased with the "product differentiation" premise.
If this announcement is indeed made next week I guess the VB recruitment department may also breathe a sigh of relief, if the comments on other threads are to be believed.
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Hi Clive,
How is this for a bit of uninformed theory , once again based on what is being said on other threads. The benefit to QF mainline if Skimpy goes A320 and mainline drivers crew them(as I think they will)is that having a bunch of mainline drivers trained on the A320 would allow an easier transition to the A330 when their contract expires and they return.
Maybe the contracts would be for a longer term than they are with Australian Airlines in order to get the return of service.
Anyway it makes sense to me. I was looking forward to my A320 endorsement with TESNA so maybe the saying that all good things come to those who wait will be valid. The RHS would be better than the back seat of a 744 anyday!
Cheers
How is this for a bit of uninformed theory , once again based on what is being said on other threads. The benefit to QF mainline if Skimpy goes A320 and mainline drivers crew them(as I think they will)is that having a bunch of mainline drivers trained on the A320 would allow an easier transition to the A330 when their contract expires and they return.
Maybe the contracts would be for a longer term than they are with Australian Airlines in order to get the return of service.
Anyway it makes sense to me. I was looking forward to my A320 endorsement with TESNA so maybe the saying that all good things come to those who wait will be valid. The RHS would be better than the back seat of a 744 anyday!
Cheers
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Rumour from American airport manager is that the order for stingy has been made for 19 737-800, to be increased to 23.
Of course this is only hearsay, but he was quite adament.
Of course this is only hearsay, but he was quite adament.
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Blueloo,
I think your mail is more on the mark than that of GT. Heard today similar rumours to yours.
Gidday Perm FO. Hope what ever happens the "perm" changes to "former". Good luck in the lottery.
I think your mail is more on the mark than that of GT. Heard today similar rumours to yours.
Gidday Perm FO. Hope what ever happens the "perm" changes to "former". Good luck in the lottery.
My information is the B737-900 to provide an edge over DJ.
The a/c to carry the same number of passengers as the DJ B737-800 but with more seat pitch and 18% more locker capacity.
Boeing claim the seat pitch increase reduces the boarding and de-planing time as well as providing almost 3 inches more pitch providing a very comfortable and spacious cabin.
The increased locker capacity provides further potential for freight uplift.
The a/c to carry the same number of passengers as the DJ B737-800 but with more seat pitch and 18% more locker capacity.
Boeing claim the seat pitch increase reduces the boarding and de-planing time as well as providing almost 3 inches more pitch providing a very comfortable and spacious cabin.
The increased locker capacity provides further potential for freight uplift.
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God help us if they do, the 800's already have a tendancy to try and sit on their ar$e, due to poor weight distribution, pax slowly unloading from the front, and sliding carpets moving weight to the rear. I'd book tickets to watch 900's being unloaded, someone's sure to sit one down! Either that or it'll snap in half on landing.....
737-800's are my vote....
737-800's are my vote....
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Re Skimpy and the A320/737
My understanding is that Qantas was able to secure the 75 737-800 buy in late 2001 (15 firm and 60 options) at the American Airline price by entering into a stronger relationship with AA. That would give them the best 737 price available.
Also my recollection of the AA 20-year exclusive deal with Boeing in the mid 1990s was that if Boeing sold its aircraft any cheaper then AA etc (Delta and Continental) would get refunds. So possibly Boeing is locked into that pricing, although when Boeing took over MDC, one of the conditions to satisfy European competition regulators was that the deals were not enforceable.
Rumour had it that Air NZ wanted 737-800s at the same price as QF/AA but Boeing said no and thus Air NZ went to Airbus which matched the price.
Logic would have QF buying 737s but my source at the heart of the deal suggests A320/A321 BUT it was qualified that the bidding process was still ongoing.
That bidding may relate not so much too price BUT buyback of 737-800s for 737-900X when they are available and also delivery.
I would think that that the 737-900X pricing may not fit into the AA deal.
GT
My understanding is that Qantas was able to secure the 75 737-800 buy in late 2001 (15 firm and 60 options) at the American Airline price by entering into a stronger relationship with AA. That would give them the best 737 price available.
Also my recollection of the AA 20-year exclusive deal with Boeing in the mid 1990s was that if Boeing sold its aircraft any cheaper then AA etc (Delta and Continental) would get refunds. So possibly Boeing is locked into that pricing, although when Boeing took over MDC, one of the conditions to satisfy European competition regulators was that the deals were not enforceable.
Rumour had it that Air NZ wanted 737-800s at the same price as QF/AA but Boeing said no and thus Air NZ went to Airbus which matched the price.
Logic would have QF buying 737s but my source at the heart of the deal suggests A320/A321 BUT it was qualified that the bidding process was still ongoing.
That bidding may relate not so much too price BUT buyback of 737-800s for 737-900X when they are available and also delivery.
I would think that that the 737-900X pricing may not fit into the AA deal.
GT
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Jesus Christ -- how far can an airframe be stretched??
If you are going to stretch a 737 that bloody far with all the related problems why not just buy a B757?
What are the operating efficiencies of the 757 against the 737-900 (apart from having a dual rating with the 767)?
If you are going to stretch a 737 that bloody far with all the related problems why not just buy a B757?
What are the operating efficiencies of the 757 against the 737-900 (apart from having a dual rating with the 767)?
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If I'm right that the 757 and 767 were designed by Boeing with commonality in mind, the 757 must have the more complicated redundancy systems etc. that the 767 has. The 737 is a relatively simple aeroplane.
Therefore I'd say that a 757-200 is/was a lot more expensive to buy/maintain than a 737-900. Which is probably why Boeing are ceasing production on the 757.
K
Therefore I'd say that a 757-200 is/was a lot more expensive to buy/maintain than a 737-900. Which is probably why Boeing are ceasing production on the 757.
K
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G T
Around three months ago, I started "Skimpy selects A320/321".
I was, at the time, derided by the usual suspects; Boo loo, Cactus Jack, et al.
The name "Skimpy" was in fact 'made up' by me and not based on fact.
Your 'facts' here and elsewhere reflect my post, almost verbatim.
May I ask, from where your info was derived?
Around three months ago, I started "Skimpy selects A320/321".
I was, at the time, derided by the usual suspects; Boo loo, Cactus Jack, et al.
The name "Skimpy" was in fact 'made up' by me and not based on fact.
Your 'facts' here and elsewhere reflect my post, almost verbatim.
May I ask, from where your info was derived?
