Poor Origin Pacific
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Not NZ anymore sadly!
Age: 62
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Weren't the S2000 370 in the cruise? Them big-bum 50 blade props!
"Ah Sven, vee en twarbul ya?!"
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/252099/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/252100/M/
"Open Seesar... ah crap, too slow!"
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/050162/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/050159/M/
"Ah Sven, vee en twarbul ya?!"
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/252099/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/252100/M/
"Open Seesar... ah crap, too slow!"
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/050162/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/050159/M/
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: nz
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Back to the original topic,
Origin will be starting a Daily AKL-WLG-AKL service from the 13oct in a J41. Will be interesting to see what happens.
New routes of interest include:
WLG - TUO - WLG (J32)
NSN - ROT - AKL (J32)
NPE - WLG - NPE (J41)
HLZ - TRG (J31)
Origin will be starting a Daily AKL-WLG-AKL service from the 13oct in a J41. Will be interesting to see what happens.
New routes of interest include:
WLG - TUO - WLG (J32)
NSN - ROT - AKL (J32)
NPE - WLG - NPE (J41)
HLZ - TRG (J31)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: South of zero
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HN - TG it's going to be a very quick expensive mission.
Loadings on that run would only be around 5-10 pax per sector, and the time that it operates is head to head with a couple other inbds (guess who will get held up). All that and the fact that OGN has pulled out of TG 3 times in recent years will make it hard to get a good client base.
Could be a very short lived run
Loadings on that run would only be around 5-10 pax per sector, and the time that it operates is head to head with a couple other inbds (guess who will get held up). All that and the fact that OGN has pulled out of TG 3 times in recent years will make it hard to get a good client base.
Could be a very short lived run
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: ex EGNM, now NZRO
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NSN - ROT - AKL (J32)
Who plans their routes - someone that is dyslexic?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Not NZ anymore sadly!
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Now there's an idea that might work for OP, the "milk run"! 
Pax who get on at AA will have made ten stops come CH, but will get to make a lot of T-O's/Ldgs! And get to see a lot of airports!
Pax who get on at AA will have made ten stops come CH, but will get to make a lot of T-O's/Ldgs! And get to see a lot of airports!
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Inglis was always a lightweight. He was a lightweight in the Mot-Air days, when an intemperate remark or two resulted in Mt Cook aka Air NZ putting an HS 748 on the Nelson-Wellington route and shutting him down in a few weeks.
That he survived at all to run Air Nelson was more to do with largesse on the part of Air NZ, than ability to manage an airline.
On the other hand, Air NZ are back to their old tricks of trying to dominate the market and force everybody else into bankruptcy or, worse, Air NZ ownership.
Airline operation in NZ is a relatively simple proposition. You have a very small population, so the economies of scale will never work. If you are a small operator, you have to find niche markets that your competitor can't serve (very difficult in NZ due to the building of decent airports everywhere in the 60's), or you have to provide a significantly better product- and you won't be doing that with a turboprop. The other method is slightly more difficult- flood the country with new, luxury aircraft and charge nothing unitl you put Air NZ out of business for good! Expensive option though.
Let's face it, Air NZ domestic is itself a very small airline in international terms, and they have struggled for years. Ansett NZ came the closest to breaking the monopoly, although they lost a lot of money, they came closest to acheiving the goal of breaking Air NZ domination. I flew with them as a pax, and would always choose them over Air NZ.
Regarding aircraft, I would take an F27 any day over an ATR. Better built, great to fly and much more capable in a crosswind... watching ATR72s trying to land in a 30kt crosswind is truly frightening. Noise levels are similar on the inside. And there is definitely something funky about pneumatic brakes!
The only turboprop that seems a likely proposition for the NZ market is the Bombardier Q400. Just takes somebody to have the spheres to take some on...
That he survived at all to run Air Nelson was more to do with largesse on the part of Air NZ, than ability to manage an airline.
On the other hand, Air NZ are back to their old tricks of trying to dominate the market and force everybody else into bankruptcy or, worse, Air NZ ownership.
Airline operation in NZ is a relatively simple proposition. You have a very small population, so the economies of scale will never work. If you are a small operator, you have to find niche markets that your competitor can't serve (very difficult in NZ due to the building of decent airports everywhere in the 60's), or you have to provide a significantly better product- and you won't be doing that with a turboprop. The other method is slightly more difficult- flood the country with new, luxury aircraft and charge nothing unitl you put Air NZ out of business for good! Expensive option though.
Let's face it, Air NZ domestic is itself a very small airline in international terms, and they have struggled for years. Ansett NZ came the closest to breaking the monopoly, although they lost a lot of money, they came closest to acheiving the goal of breaking Air NZ domination. I flew with them as a pax, and would always choose them over Air NZ.
Regarding aircraft, I would take an F27 any day over an ATR. Better built, great to fly and much more capable in a crosswind... watching ATR72s trying to land in a 30kt crosswind is truly frightening. Noise levels are similar on the inside. And there is definitely something funky about pneumatic brakes!
The only turboprop that seems a likely proposition for the NZ market is the Bombardier Q400. Just takes somebody to have the spheres to take some on...
Join Date: Mar 2000
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MOR
Get off the happy backky.
The F27 is an old heap compared to the ATR 72. Pneumatic steering and brakes, noisy RR Darts, old avionics, a gas guzzler, and extremely noisy and heavy, compared to the ATR with a 35kt crosswind capability, narrow runway (14m) ops, half the fuel consumption rate for twice the load carrying capability, modern avionics and GPS for navigation (standard fit).
All turbo props are noisy outside, but the ATR 72-500 is much quieter than the F27.
As for the Dash 8-400. That would be the quickest way to go broke in NZ. The speed that it has would be eroded by the ATC system we see in this country and the short sectors that it would have to do.
That could also be why it has not been a big seller in the rest of the world as well, especially as the travelling public's perception would favour a jet.
Bring on the Embraer 170.
Get off the happy backky.
The F27 is an old heap compared to the ATR 72. Pneumatic steering and brakes, noisy RR Darts, old avionics, a gas guzzler, and extremely noisy and heavy, compared to the ATR with a 35kt crosswind capability, narrow runway (14m) ops, half the fuel consumption rate for twice the load carrying capability, modern avionics and GPS for navigation (standard fit).
All turbo props are noisy outside, but the ATR 72-500 is much quieter than the F27.
As for the Dash 8-400. That would be the quickest way to go broke in NZ. The speed that it has would be eroded by the ATC system we see in this country and the short sectors that it would have to do.
That could also be why it has not been a big seller in the rest of the world as well, especially as the travelling public's perception would favour a jet.
Bring on the Embraer 170.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Well, maybe, but show me an ATR after 30 years service and I'll show you a very tired aircraft (if it even gets to that age). They are light, yes- built to a price, not to a good spec. All the ones I have seen look very doggy after a few years.
We used to land the F27 in Guernsey on really horrible, windy, wet dark nights. It coped pretty well. The ATRs though, with that narrow track gear, were all over the place.
Ours had GPS, for commuter ops you hardly need the latest EFIS gear.
Anyway... whatever floats your boat. You like 'em, I don't... fair enough!
We used to land the F27 in Guernsey on really horrible, windy, wet dark nights. It coped pretty well. The ATRs though, with that narrow track gear, were all over the place.
Ours had GPS, for commuter ops you hardly need the latest EFIS gear.
Anyway... whatever floats your boat. You like 'em, I don't... fair enough!
