Is Impulse the new 'low-cost' carrier?
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Isn't there the risk that this new low cost venture will only end up poaching pax (albeit low yield) from it's parent carrier, just like Go did to BA?
We've gone from 4 carriers to 3 carriers to finally 2 - just where is the room for a 3rd carrier in Oz? Yes it would be a LCC, but funding 35 A321's is a big ask in what is comparitively (compared with the likes of the UK and US) a much smaller market...
We've gone from 4 carriers to 3 carriers to finally 2 - just where is the room for a 3rd carrier in Oz? Yes it would be a LCC, but funding 35 A321's is a big ask in what is comparitively (compared with the likes of the UK and US) a much smaller market...
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In addition to eating into VB's market share, poaching pax from QF is exactly what they want to do, as they would make more money putting them on the low cost wing than the high cost side of thing.
They then can expand the low cost operation and reduce the higher cost side. makes perfect sense.
They then can expand the low cost operation and reduce the higher cost side. makes perfect sense.
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Not quite relevant, but close...
Aren't Airbuses meant to be real lemons? Ansett's A320's were FOREVER going U/S (compared to the older 733's) - I worked there, and I saw it happen everyday!
Also, QF I believe are having reliability issues with the A330. Same at GB Airways in the UK - reliability a big problem there as well for their new A320's/A321's.
Views/experience anyone? Just a casual observer's observation...
Aren't Airbuses meant to be real lemons? Ansett's A320's were FOREVER going U/S (compared to the older 733's) - I worked there, and I saw it happen everyday!
Also, QF I believe are having reliability issues with the A330. Same at GB Airways in the UK - reliability a big problem there as well for their new A320's/A321's.
Views/experience anyone? Just a casual observer's observation...
Not sure where you worked mr seatback but in the end the A320s were the real money makers at Ansett. Why would have Mk 2 only been operating them when they had a whole fleet of 737s as well, the airbus's at AN did have a lot of teething troubles in the beginning, but remember they were the launch customer, but at the end they were the most reliable in the fleet.
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To all u management wannabes and especially Sir Pete Conrad
You dont just create a market which is not there. The market is saturated and served well. There will not be 20 extra 737's or A320's ordered. There will be an initial say 10 a/c transferred from mainline. They will snare FO's from long haul and FO's from 737 mainline. Lower conditions. It will then be axpanded at the expense of mainline over time.
ONe thing is f6r sure. THey will not have to fly with biggles himself.
Sir Pete Conrad.
He'll be at the fence taking photo's from his brand new ladder.
You dont just create a market which is not there. The market is saturated and served well. There will not be 20 extra 737's or A320's ordered. There will be an initial say 10 a/c transferred from mainline. They will snare FO's from long haul and FO's from 737 mainline. Lower conditions. It will then be axpanded at the expense of mainline over time.
ONe thing is f6r sure. THey will not have to fly with biggles himself.
Sir Pete Conrad.
He'll be at the fence taking photo's from his brand new ladder.
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True - the 737 economics aren't as good as the A320...but still...
My observations are probably unintentionally skewed anyway...let's not go anywhere near the 767's anyone (romeo-mike-donkey???)
As someone who saw the disruptions caused by A320's going U/S almost everyday, I probably missed the amount of times the rest of the fleet went cactus!
Thumpa - that's what I thought (re: market saturation)...any other ideas kids?
My observations are probably unintentionally skewed anyway...let's not go anywhere near the 767's anyone (romeo-mike-donkey???)
As someone who saw the disruptions caused by A320's going U/S almost everyday, I probably missed the amount of times the rest of the fleet went cactus!
Thumpa - that's what I thought (re: market saturation)...any other ideas kids?
AN's 320 the most reliable aircraft?
Compared to thirty year old or badly maintained 767's, clapped out 737's, odd ball 146's and a pair of SQ's retarded 747's, yes l guess they were very reliable.
AN were one of many launch customers for the 320, so not the only ones to suffer problems with the type.
The Airbus types in this neck of the woods seem to always be having problems. Maybe it's the environment, maybe it's the quality.
halas
Compared to thirty year old or badly maintained 767's, clapped out 737's, odd ball 146's and a pair of SQ's retarded 747's, yes l guess they were very reliable.
AN were one of many launch customers for the 320, so not the only ones to suffer problems with the type.
The Airbus types in this neck of the woods seem to always be having problems. Maybe it's the environment, maybe it's the quality.
halas
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Thumpa said "To all u management wannabes and especially Sir Pete Conrad
You dont just create a market which is not there. The market is saturated and served well. There will not be 20 extra 737's or A320's ordered. There will be an initial say 10 a/c transferred from mainline. They will snare FO's from long haul and FO's from 737 mainline. Lower conditions. It will then be axpanded at the expense of mainline over time."
How do you know the market is not there?
4 years ago we all thought the market would reject the notion of a no frills service, today it is not only acceptable to the 'thongs and serongs' crowd, but also to a growing number of buisness travellers.
Events would seem to have proved your statement incorrect, in fact it seems the lower the airfares, the greater the demand. The only question seems to be how cheap they can sustainably go.
There is no guarantee whatsoever that QF mainline pilots will crew the new LCC. If they do, then assuming Virgin style pay rates apply, Qantas will need to re-think it's recruitment path towards direct entry F/O's. Very few second officers will be interested in pay reductions to a right hand seat.
If we also assume that the LCC replaces the Impulse services, then what do Qantas do with 100 or so qualified jet pilots in Impulse? Yes, I hear the call, 'make them S/O's, after all they are mere regional pilots.'
Somehow I don't think this would work, rather, I can see at best for QF pilots a hybrid airline where both groups can enter the new carrier (QF pilots on secondment). This may at least provide for stability of jobs for the ever diminishing mainline carrier.
At worst, (for QF pilots) I see the new carrier being a completely seperate entity most likely crewed by the VQ guys.
AIPA and the QF pilot group as a whole should see this as an important opportunity to grab the bull by the horns here and get in on the ground floor. At the end of the day, we sat around in Ansett and watched guys with 0 jet time move into the left hand seat in a matter of years whilst we languished in the same seat on the same type. The wages may have been less, but in retrospect I think it would have been better if we had been there from the beginning(assuming the opportunity was there).
You dont just create a market which is not there. The market is saturated and served well. There will not be 20 extra 737's or A320's ordered. There will be an initial say 10 a/c transferred from mainline. They will snare FO's from long haul and FO's from 737 mainline. Lower conditions. It will then be axpanded at the expense of mainline over time."
How do you know the market is not there?
4 years ago we all thought the market would reject the notion of a no frills service, today it is not only acceptable to the 'thongs and serongs' crowd, but also to a growing number of buisness travellers.
Events would seem to have proved your statement incorrect, in fact it seems the lower the airfares, the greater the demand. The only question seems to be how cheap they can sustainably go.
There is no guarantee whatsoever that QF mainline pilots will crew the new LCC. If they do, then assuming Virgin style pay rates apply, Qantas will need to re-think it's recruitment path towards direct entry F/O's. Very few second officers will be interested in pay reductions to a right hand seat.
If we also assume that the LCC replaces the Impulse services, then what do Qantas do with 100 or so qualified jet pilots in Impulse? Yes, I hear the call, 'make them S/O's, after all they are mere regional pilots.'
Somehow I don't think this would work, rather, I can see at best for QF pilots a hybrid airline where both groups can enter the new carrier (QF pilots on secondment). This may at least provide for stability of jobs for the ever diminishing mainline carrier.
At worst, (for QF pilots) I see the new carrier being a completely seperate entity most likely crewed by the VQ guys.
AIPA and the QF pilot group as a whole should see this as an important opportunity to grab the bull by the horns here and get in on the ground floor. At the end of the day, we sat around in Ansett and watched guys with 0 jet time move into the left hand seat in a matter of years whilst we languished in the same seat on the same type. The wages may have been less, but in retrospect I think it would have been better if we had been there from the beginning(assuming the opportunity was there).
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If we also assume that the LCC replaces the Impulse services, then what do Qantas do with 100 or so qualified jet pilots in Impulse? Yes, I hear the call, 'make them S/O's, after all they are mere regional pilots.'
As for "they're regional pilots, make em SOs" - fat chance - Qantas have already shown thier hand there. What did they do with the Ex- Southern "qualified jet pilots"? Gave them all interviews and took one - sorry, all the rest no makey grade. Go fly Dashy or go to Centerlink.
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Rat Lies and Propaganda
I guess it’s better to fly a Dash than to be un-employed.
Impulse had a chance to go QF union way back when the merger first happened; a few of the senior 1900 guys were trying to convince everyone that the way to go was to maintain an internal Impulse Pilot Committee. They’re S/O’s with QF now so I guess their hard stance views don’t count so much no more. Solid advice guys.
Yes the IPC are a top bunch of guys doing there best, no hard feeling on their be-half, problem is though, they don’t have the power nor the pull to push as hard as what the QF pilot union have. It’s just a fact of life.
The Southern guys got the short straw as well, but at least the guys kept their jobs as opposed to 30 or so 1900 pilots getting the shaft from the QF seniors.
Baggage handlers on strike with QF makes the news, 30 or so sacked pilots through a merger? Not one mention!
Couple of guys turn up in suits , telling you how tough and how hard it is on their behalf , almost trying to convince you that you should feel sorry for them because they have to give you the sack. Nice work guys.
Catch 22 : most companies have heard that “IF” Impulse / Qantaslink buy more jets , the redundant guys will be offered positions first. That’s a nice security blanket, BUT understandably so , other companies don’t want to waste their time and money training up a new guy if the chances are they might get a jet call up in the not to distant future.
So again the redundant guys haven’t got a leg to stand on. Nor a job in the profession they’re trained in.
Qantas Press Release 20th November 2001 : Sydney
“The Impulse fleet of eight Boeing 717 jets and 13 Beechcraft 1900D aircraft would continue to fly QantasLink services. All pilots, flight attendants, engineers and ground staff would remain employed by Impulse Airlines as a subsidiary of Qantas.”
http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn...01/nov01/2554Q
60 Minute’s? Mike Munro? Anyone want to stir the pot on this one?
I guess most people are sick to death of this recurring topic, but this sour grape is a little hard for some to chew.
Bottoms up lads , lets hope “A Company” any company will start up soon and put more drivers on.
Impulse had a chance to go QF union way back when the merger first happened; a few of the senior 1900 guys were trying to convince everyone that the way to go was to maintain an internal Impulse Pilot Committee. They’re S/O’s with QF now so I guess their hard stance views don’t count so much no more. Solid advice guys.
Yes the IPC are a top bunch of guys doing there best, no hard feeling on their be-half, problem is though, they don’t have the power nor the pull to push as hard as what the QF pilot union have. It’s just a fact of life.
The Southern guys got the short straw as well, but at least the guys kept their jobs as opposed to 30 or so 1900 pilots getting the shaft from the QF seniors.
Baggage handlers on strike with QF makes the news, 30 or so sacked pilots through a merger? Not one mention!
Couple of guys turn up in suits , telling you how tough and how hard it is on their behalf , almost trying to convince you that you should feel sorry for them because they have to give you the sack. Nice work guys.
Catch 22 : most companies have heard that “IF” Impulse / Qantaslink buy more jets , the redundant guys will be offered positions first. That’s a nice security blanket, BUT understandably so , other companies don’t want to waste their time and money training up a new guy if the chances are they might get a jet call up in the not to distant future.
So again the redundant guys haven’t got a leg to stand on. Nor a job in the profession they’re trained in.
Qantas Press Release 20th November 2001 : Sydney
“The Impulse fleet of eight Boeing 717 jets and 13 Beechcraft 1900D aircraft would continue to fly QantasLink services. All pilots, flight attendants, engineers and ground staff would remain employed by Impulse Airlines as a subsidiary of Qantas.”
http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn...01/nov01/2554Q
60 Minute’s? Mike Munro? Anyone want to stir the pot on this one?
I guess most people are sick to death of this recurring topic, but this sour grape is a little hard for some to chew.
Bottoms up lads , lets hope “A Company” any company will start up soon and put more drivers on.
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Ironic really. I know of several guys flying for Impulse (read airconex or whatever...) who have been turned down for employment by QF.
Why do you think they were at Impulse in the first place?
And now here they are effectively flying QF Jets????
I doubt any of them would be taken in by mainline without a the usual recruitment process....
Why do you think they were at Impulse in the first place?
And now here they are effectively flying QF Jets????
I doubt any of them would be taken in by mainline without a the usual recruitment process....
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What you children must realise Qantas already has a low cost operator. Impulse. A a 117 seat caters for a different size market than a 160 seat a/c. Like NJS are. Qantas did lease 6 a/c just over a year ago with 100's of millions of dollars invested. Any person with some sort of Business knowledge would know they are not about to write it off overnight just to get rid of a low cost operator already there.
Think about it
Think about it
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epirb
Impulse will not be the low cost airline. They already are. They will continue to operate as Qantaslink to smallish centres out of capital cities, just like NJS have done for 10 years. The range on the 717 is pretty much sufficient to all routes except Perth to the East Coast etc. Qantas would not want pax to fly anymore than 3 hours with out entertainment .
Its gone very quiet. Where are you Pete you big winner
Impulse will not be the low cost airline. They already are. They will continue to operate as Qantaslink to smallish centres out of capital cities, just like NJS have done for 10 years. The range on the 717 is pretty much sufficient to all routes except Perth to the East Coast etc. Qantas would not want pax to fly anymore than 3 hours with out entertainment .
Its gone very quiet. Where are you Pete you big winner
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Might they not get additional 717's to the fleet, but painted and configured in a different manner (ie. say, a domestic version of 'Australian'?)
Nil additional training, etc. required for any of the crews, with commonality with the rest of the fleet.
Plus - the LCC could fly (as I understand) SYD-ADL-PER (well, it's being mooted for SYD-CNS, so presumeably 3hr flts aren't a problem!?)
hmmmmmm
I've heard the rumour that we'll be operating in Australian colours more than once now...even though Australian still provide 'frills' level of service in an all Y configuration, maybe they're considering a 'no frills' version for the domestic arm?
Just a thought!
Nil additional training, etc. required for any of the crews, with commonality with the rest of the fleet.
Plus - the LCC could fly (as I understand) SYD-ADL-PER (well, it's being mooted for SYD-CNS, so presumeably 3hr flts aren't a problem!?)
hmmmmmm
I've heard the rumour that we'll be operating in Australian colours more than once now...even though Australian still provide 'frills' level of service in an all Y configuration, maybe they're considering a 'no frills' version for the domestic arm?
Just a thought!
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Sorry thumpa, been away on a four day trip. I actually have a life and don't feel the need to check pprune every day to stroke what little ego you have. this thread was an interesting thread with mature discussion until you got on it.
Keep dreaming, or as Douglas Mcdonnell said - tell your story walking thumpa.
I heard today within QF that the leases on the 717's have been reduced to 5 years now.
Douglas McDonnell you seem to have more maturity than thumpa, is that the case?
Keep dreaming, or as Douglas Mcdonnell said - tell your story walking thumpa.
I heard today within QF that the leases on the 717's have been reduced to 5 years now.
Douglas McDonnell you seem to have more maturity than thumpa, is that the case?
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It is a shame to see what started as a usefull thread being hijacked by the usual twisted D1ck He@#s.
Pete as far as I know the 717s are on lease to around 2008/9. The leases were recently renegotiated. Under what exact terms I am not sure.
C U soon DM
Pete as far as I know the 717s are on lease to around 2008/9. The leases were recently renegotiated. Under what exact terms I am not sure.
C U soon DM
