Gloucester or Swanwick?
 

Hi guys!

Recently passed stage 3 assessment for NATS and been offered a choice between 2 course - 1 at Swanwick and 1 in Gloucester. Now I had no idea that they had a site in Gloucester so did not realise that this would be a decision to make. They were pretty vague about it on the phone so my question is, is there a real difference or is it the same experience course wise then you go off on operational anyway?

I've been told Gloucester is more Terminal Controller based whereas Swanwick is Area Controller - will going to Gloucester rule me out from ever doing area? And vice versa? Again, I thought the decision of which Controller I became was also down to them but it seems they gave me the choice? I need to let them know by tomorrow and I'm a little overwhelmed just by being told I had landed (pardon the pun) the role in the first place!

Any advice between the two would be greatly appreciated!!

Swanwick (CTC?) - NATS in-house training. Likely an Area course leading to a job at either Swanwick or Prestwick, but some Airport courses as well. Could be either.

Gloucester - Contracted out Airport training with Global ATS. Definitely Airport (or maybe TC) but zero chance of Area.

If you definitely want Area, take Swanwick. If you definitely want Airports, take Gloucester.

My understanding is that Gloucester only do Aerodrome and Approach Surveillance ratings. So Gloucester provide NATS with controllers who will end up working at airports and at Terminal Control at Swanwick, specifically the Approach positions for the various airports in the SE that do not provide their own Approach function from positions in thr tower building (LHR, LGW, LCY, STN, LTN).

Most of NATS' own training at Whiteley (near Swanwick) is for Area, so controllers with that rating will end up working at Prestwick or Swanwick (Area Control) and the non-Approach sectors at Terminal Control. I know there was a period where NATS only trained Area, but that may have changed by now.

Moving from one discipline to another is very rare now. I wouldn't choose your preference based on an assumed ability to move later in your career.

Congratulations!

Unless you have a particular urge to do area, I would suggest Gloucester as it appears more likely to be aimed at aerodrome and approach work. Every individual is different, of course, but I find centres boring, and having aerodrome ratings offers many more options should life mean that life outside NATS appeals :).

Excuse a long retired Old Fart having the temerity to voice his opinion. I did both Area at LATCC and Aerodrome/Approach in my time. I thought working in an ATC Centre was the Air Traffic equivalent of working in a factory. At airfields I felt closer to aviation - back in the day, depending on the airfield, you could get to meet all sorts of people outside ATC and wander round terminals etc. I guess since 9/11 security measures would have put paid to that. As Equivocal says, airfield qualification means you can change employer if you so wish - in my time places such as Newcastle, Jersey and East Midlands etc were considered good places to work.

However, my son who is an ATCO at Swanwick wouldn't work anywhere else.

So NATS did not explain the significance of the training at one or other of the locations? Vague about it? - and on the phone?

2 s

I did the 3 year ATCO Cadet course where we trained and achieved C of C in all ratings.
During the third year, the course manager asked me what my preference was for final posting; I said a JATCRU preferably Lindholme and instead was offered either Heathrow as first choice or Farnborough as second choice so I plumped for Farnborough where I was still able to to Area Radar as well as approach radar and tower.

Like others have said, training at Whiteley, CTC, will not guarantee you're doing an area course, but going to Gloucester will guarantee you're not doing an area course.

It depends how important it is where you spend your career - doing area will mean you can only work at Swanwick or Prestwick and only for NATS too as no one else does area control in the country. An aerodrome only rating means you'll be working at one of the London airports as they're the only ones that are tower only, I think and of those London City is at Swanwick as well. Doing aerodrome and approach means you'll be sent to wherever you're needed after finishing the college - that's based on business need and your preference might or might not be taken into account and that can range from Southampton to Aberdeen and lots of places in-between. However, Aerodrome and/or approach does mean you can take your validations elsewhere if you want to as there are plenty of non NATS airfields around the country.

Don't touch Global ATS!! What a shower of sh****te. Completed courses here, same old bull**** years over - terrible rostering/timetabling/course content (DEATH by ppt) /instructors are...soooooo old (not seen a radar or tower in yrs) & I've heard they're at the hand of the CAA inspector...who nepotistically used to be CI there. Also, where you're finally placed will be banded around the instructor office discussing your personal life and what they think of you....

Grapes a bit sour are they?

Which one did you take and how is your experience so far

Gloucester means you get to see planes.
Whiteley means you don't.

Which is a better choice if given option to pick.

If you had choice to pick from which one would you pick … anyone already doing the training feedback

It's a difficult question to answer.

ATC is an interesting job, so I would expect you'd enjoy and find it rewarding whichever path you went down, be it airports (if trained at Gloucester) or en-route centres (if trained at CTC near Swanwick).

It might be better to ask yourself where you'd prefer to end up working, at an en-route centre with hundreds of colleagues, or at an airport where you might be at Heathrow with 60 other controllers, or a smaller airport where you might have 20 or even fewer colleagues. Where in the country do you want to work? If en-route ATC, then you'll be working at Swanwick or Prestwick. NATS of course has airport units all over the UK (and Gibraltar!). If you like being 'around' aviation, then you might prefer working at an airport. If that's not so important, en-route has less variation in progression up the salary scale than the airports (which are divided up into salary bands).

While I would have loved to control radar, I would not have wanted to give up working Tower at a busy airport to do so.

For salary and progression tower is better?

No. Sorry, I wasn't clear.

NATS units are classified into salary bands, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

​​​​​​Prestwick is band 4, Swanwick is 5, airports can be 1-5, and there may even be a band 0 too, below 1.

If money is your primary concern though, I'd question as to whether ATC is a good choice.

Asking based on progression not just money … do we get opportunities to apply for different roles within and how interesting both roles will be working in Area or Traffic at Gloucester

Why wouldn't it be? Having a passion, interest and dedication can certainly make it more enjoyable and rewarding, but money is a great motivator.

To add to this I’d argue that money is the greatest motivator. On my basic course of 15+ only one person had a previous desire to become ATC from school age.

The overwhelming majority picked it due to the potential earning power. Most didn’t have the first clue about aviation (myself included). Those of us that are now valid developed an interest and passion over time. But when things got hard the money was what kept me in it anyway.

A not insignificant number of trainees coming through recently have saiid they applied after searching for “best paying jobs without a degree” and ATC coming up. If we relied on attracting people with a prior interest in aviation I’m not sure there’d be many people reaching the college.

If you’re aiming for a higher chance of more guaranteed money in the long run, Whiteley is probably a better bet as an area rating puts you higher up the bandings. Gloucester might get you to a higher banded unit but with a lower chance. You’re probably going to validate quicker from Gloucester and get onto the ATCO payscales. Gloucester will also give you ADI and APS which gives you slightly more freedom if you want to look for external jobs in the future. You’ll also see actual aircraft rather than just green blips on a radar. Others may have a different outlook on this, and I’d stress none of it is a guarantee. Personally at this point if you don’t already have a preference for one of the other and the physical location in the country doesn’t make any difference, take what you get.

How interesting you find it is entirely down to you, but wherever you end up you’ll probably find no day is ever the same - but often for very different reasons. It has its dull moments but it’s still far more interesting than most jobs. There is project work and developmental roles if you’re interested in that - but usually not on any sort of regular basis, they come up as and when, and some opportunities for supervisory promotions if that’s your thing.

I don't think I've said that one has to be interested in, or have a passion for, aviation, to become an ATCO. And bear in mind we're not talking about that here, we're talking about choosing between (effectively) Area or Aerodrome (+Approach), not about ATC as a whole v other careers.

I would say think about the lifestyle you want to have. Where in the country do you want to (not want to) work? Would you be happy being at a smaller unit or larger? Do you want to stay nearer to family, or move away? Do you want to have the ability to move to a non-NATS unit at some point? Do you want to aim at the highest salary bands while having little more responsibility than when first qualified, or manage other colleagues at a smaller unit after only a few years as an ATCO, but not earn quite so much? Would you be happy being in the highest-paid group of ATCOs in the UK, but actually see cost of property/living erode that in real terms below others who earn less? Lots to consider.

And an acceptable answer is 'yeah I don't mind'. At least have a think about it rather than just automatically going for the highest potential salary.

What are the accommodations preferences in Whitley staying local or Southampton, travel to centre is it easy to get to

I'd say there's more scope to move into roles outside the operational environment if you go area. Both Swanwick and Prestwick have a lot of other departments such as safety, systems, investigations etc that you can move into on a secondment whilst retaining your validations - essentially you work unto 6 days a month on radar and the rest of your working time is office based.

how long is the total training at Whitley before you qualify

​​​​​​The apprenticeship at CTC Whiteley is minimum 12 months. If you go with Whiteley, to avoid disappointment I'd assume a minimum of 2.5 to 3 years from walking in the door at Whiteley to validating at a centre.

do you know about Gloucester how long the training is? Or is it both same at Whitley and Gloucester

Aw c'mon, the old style 3 year Cadet course gave you C of Cs in 3 years after rating validations which are normally ADV/ADI, ACS, APS in todays terms; I actually got APP and ACC ratings as well when I graduated.

how long did it take you to graduate

I told you, 3 years; and we all got 5 ratings on our licences when we graduated (if you failed a rating there was little chance of re-taking, you got chopped except in exceptional circumstances) so we could have been sent anywhere rather than either Area or Aerodromes/Terminal; there was no choice, you got sent where management felt you would be needed.

You might want to ask chevvron what year he started…

thanks.. 3 years seems long on basic salary when you be paying extra from your salary towards accommodation too

my understanding was u can qualify in 18 to 24 months

Gloucester is probably about 6 months to 1 year, and then another 6 months to a year on top of that depending on where you end up.,

And to be clear, even though it appears you've been given a choice at this stage, you should prepare yourself for the fact that, while you may get the opportunity to express a preference in future (such as first unit once out of the training establishment), NATS will send you where they perceive they need you, and it might not align with your choice.

We all started on the same basic salary and got annual increments. Those of us who were ex ATCAs and were at Heathrow, West Drayton or Gatwick got Outer London Weighting as well.

Can we all please be clear on this thread whether we are talking about 50 years ago or today? It's potentially confusing for ATC beginner . Let's focus on the current situation and help those applying to join today, rather than what happened 'back in my day'.

thank you for the response… how about Whitley … how long will be the training and how does the salary band works

do we stay on basic salary throughout the training which is £21k plus 8k for accommodation for 2-3 years seems low.

does salary changes after 1st year

how much was the annual increments. If you were training at Whitley how long did it take for you to qualify… i will on apprenticeship

I agree Gonzo: I started in the early eighties, by the late eighties the 5 rating option was deemed outmoded & wasteful, as too many good airports ATCOs were thrown away (in reality, handed on to other ATC providers for free...). It's nearly 2025, so those last 5 rating people will be very close to retirement, if not already there. The company's gone through many iterations since then, reflecting on the past might be fun for some, but very confusing for those trying to enter the business now.

What Chevvron went through during his ATC training is just not applicable any more, as it would have been in the 1970s.

Heck, even my own training experience isn't applicable any more, and I went through in 1998.

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No one is responding from the current recruits