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-   -   Gloucester or Swanwick? (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/658080-gloucester-swanwick.html)

Request Orbit 14th December 2024 15:30

A not insignificant number of trainees coming through recently have saiid they applied after searching for “best paying jobs without a degree” and ATC coming up. If we relied on attracting people with a prior interest in aviation I’m not sure there’d be many people reaching the college.

If you’re aiming for a higher chance of more guaranteed money in the long run, Whiteley is probably a better bet as an area rating puts you higher up the bandings. Gloucester might get you to a higher banded unit but with a lower chance. You’re probably going to validate quicker from Gloucester and get onto the ATCO payscales. Gloucester will also give you ADI and APS which gives you slightly more freedom if you want to look for external jobs in the future. You’ll also see actual aircraft rather than just green blips on a radar. Others may have a different outlook on this, and I’d stress none of it is a guarantee. Personally at this point if you don’t already have a preference for one of the other and the physical location in the country doesn’t make any difference, take what you get.


Originally Posted by ATC beginner (Post 11786599)
Asking based on progression not just money … do we get opportunities to apply for different roles within and how interesting both roles will be working in Area or Traffic at Gloucester

How interesting you find it is entirely down to you, but wherever you end up you’ll probably find no day is ever the same - but often for very different reasons. It has its dull moments but it’s still far more interesting than most jobs. There is project work and developmental roles if you’re interested in that - but usually not on any sort of regular basis, they come up as and when, and some opportunities for supervisory promotions if that’s your thing.

Gonzo 14th December 2024 18:53

I don't think I've said that one has to be interested in, or have a passion for, aviation, to become an ATCO. And bear in mind we're not talking about that here, we're talking about choosing between (effectively) Area or Aerodrome (+Approach), not about ATC as a whole v other careers.

I would say think about the lifestyle you want to have. Where in the country do you want to (not want to) work? Would you be happy being at a smaller unit or larger? Do you want to stay nearer to family, or move away? Do you want to have the ability to move to a non-NATS unit at some point? Do you want to aim at the highest salary bands while having little more responsibility than when first qualified, or manage other colleagues at a smaller unit after only a few years as an ATCO, but not earn quite so much? Would you be happy being in the highest-paid group of ATCOs in the UK, but actually see cost of property/living erode that in real terms below others who earn less? Lots to consider.

And an acceptable answer is 'yeah I don't mind'. At least have a think about it rather than just automatically going for the highest potential salary.

ATC beginner 15th December 2024 18:27

What are the accommodations preferences in Whitley staying local or Southampton, travel to centre is it easy to get to

The Many Tentacles 16th December 2024 10:34


Originally Posted by ATC beginner (Post 11786599)
Asking based on progression not just money … do we get opportunities to apply for different roles within and how interesting both roles will be working in Area or Traffic at Gloucester

I'd say there's more scope to move into roles outside the operational environment if you go area. Both Swanwick and Prestwick have a lot of other departments such as safety, systems, investigations etc that you can move into on a secondment whilst retaining your validations - essentially you work unto 6 days a month on radar and the rest of your working time is office based.

ATC beginner 16th December 2024 10:39


Originally Posted by The Many Tentacles (Post 11787894)
I'd say there's more scope to move into roles outside the operational environment if you go area. Both Swanwick and Prestwick have a lot of other departments such as safety, systems, investigations etc that you can move into on a secondment whilst retaining your validations - essentially you work unto 6 days a month on radar and the rest of your working time is office based.

how long is the total training at Whitley before you qualify

Stringy 16th December 2024 18:52


Originally Posted by ATC beginner (Post 11787897)
how long is the total training at Whitley before you qualify

​​​​​​The apprenticeship at CTC Whiteley is minimum 12 months. If you go with Whiteley, to avoid disappointment I'd assume a minimum of 2.5 to 3 years from walking in the door at Whiteley to validating at a centre.

ATC beginner 16th December 2024 21:01


Originally Posted by Stringy (Post 11788231)
​​​​​​The apprenticeship at CTC Whiteley is minimum 12 months. If you go with Whiteley, to avoid disappointment I'd assume a minimum of 2.5 to 3 years from walking in the door at Whiteley to validating at a centre.

do you know about Gloucester how long the training is? Or is it both same at Whitley and Gloucester

chevvron 17th December 2024 01:15

Aw c'mon, the old style 3 year Cadet course gave you C of Cs in 3 years after rating validations which are normally ADV/ADI, ACS, APS in todays terms; I actually got APP and ACC ratings as well when I graduated.

ATC beginner 17th December 2024 10:19


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11788376)
Aw c'mon, the old style 3 year Cadet course gave you C of Cs in 3 years after rating validations which are normally ADV/ADI, ACS, APS in todays terms; I actually got APP and ACC ratings as well when I graduated.

how long did it take you to graduate

chevvron 17th December 2024 11:23


Originally Posted by ATC beginner (Post 11788588)
how long did it take you to graduate

I told you, 3 years; and we all got 5 ratings on our licences when we graduated (if you failed a rating there was little chance of re-taking, you got chopped except in exceptional circumstances) so we could have been sent anywhere rather than either Area or Aerodromes/Terminal; there was no choice, you got sent where management felt you would be needed.

Request Orbit 17th December 2024 11:50

You might want to ask chevvron what year he started…

ATC beginner 17th December 2024 12:25


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11788630)
I told you, 3 years; and we all got 5 ratings on our licences when we graduated (if you failed a rating there was little chance of re-taking, you got chopped except in exceptional circumstances) so we could have been sent anywhere rather than either Area or Aerodromes/Terminal; there was no choice, you got sent where management felt you would be needed.

thanks.. 3 years seems long on basic salary when you be paying extra from your salary towards accommodation too

my understanding was u can qualify in 18 to 24 months

Gonzo 17th December 2024 15:34

Gloucester is probably about 6 months to 1 year, and then another 6 months to a year on top of that depending on where you end up.,

And to be clear, even though it appears you've been given a choice at this stage, you should prepare yourself for the fact that, while you may get the opportunity to express a preference in future (such as first unit once out of the training establishment), NATS will send you where they perceive they need you, and it might not align with your choice.

chevvron 17th December 2024 16:16


Originally Posted by ATC beginner (Post 11788665)
thanks.. 3 years seems long on basic salary when you be paying extra from your salary towards accommodation too

We all started on the same basic salary and got annual increments. Those of us who were ex ATCAs and were at Heathrow, West Drayton or Gatwick got Outer London Weighting as well.

Gonzo 17th December 2024 17:03


Originally Posted by ATC beginner (Post 11788665)
thanks.. 3 years seems long on basic salary when you be paying extra from your salary towards accommodation too

my understanding was u can qualify in 18 to 24 months

Can we all please be clear on this thread whether we are talking about 50 years ago or today? It's potentially confusing for ATC beginner . Let's focus on the current situation and help those applying to join today, rather than what happened 'back in my day'.

ATC beginner 17th December 2024 17:31


Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 11788816)
Gloucester is probably about 6 months to 1 year, and then another 6 months to a year on top of that depending on where you end up.,

And to be clear, even though it appears you've been given a choice at this stage, you should prepare yourself for the fact that, while you may get the opportunity to express a preference in future (such as first unit once out of the training establishment), NATS will send you where they perceive they need you, and it might not align with your choice.

thank you for the response… how about Whitley … how long will be the training and how does the salary band works

do we stay on basic salary throughout the training which is £21k plus 8k for accommodation for 2-3 years seems low.

does salary changes after 1st year

ATC beginner 17th December 2024 17:34


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11788854)
We all started on the same basic salary and got annual increments. Those of us who were ex ATCAs and were at Heathrow, West Drayton or Gatwick got Outer London Weighting as well.


how much was the annual increments. If you were training at Whitley how long did it take for you to qualify… i will on apprenticeship

alfaman 17th December 2024 23:40


Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 11788897)
Can we all please be clear on this thread whether we are talking about 50 years ago or today? It's potentially confusing for ATC beginner . Let's focus on the current situation and help those applying to join today, rather than what happened 'back in my day'.

I agree Gonzo: I started in the early eighties, by the late eighties the 5 rating option was deemed outmoded & wasteful, as too many good airports ATCOs were thrown away (in reality, handed on to other ATC providers for free...). It's nearly 2025, so those last 5 rating people will be very close to retirement, if not already there. The company's gone through many iterations since then, reflecting on the past might be fun for some, but very confusing for those trying to enter the business now.

Gonzo 18th December 2024 06:32


Originally Posted by ATC beginner (Post 11788912)
how much was the annual increments. If you were training at Whitley how long did it take for you to qualify… i will on apprenticeship

What Chevvron went through during his ATC training is just not applicable any more, as it would have been in the 1970s.

Heck, even my own training experience isn't applicable any more, and I went through in 1998.

​​

ATC beginner 18th December 2024 14:20


Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 11789180)
What Chevvron went through during his ATC training is just not applicable any more, as it would have been in the 1970s.

Heck, even my own training experience isn't applicable any more, and I went through in 1998.

​​

No one is responding from the current recruits


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