Thanks. One of my concerns about multiple validations of civil aerodromes is the difference in ATC operating procedures and definitions, e.g. "runway vacated", and misapplication.

Starlord, we do.

But what does it give me? How is it safer? A pair of aircraft heading away from me, I can't tell if they are getting closer to each other, I can't tell if they are getting further apart (until one of them turns). I get a better idea of that from my radar, with Mode S airspeed, groundspeed, Mode C altitude.

I look at them out of the window because I have to. I look at them on the radar to see their relative positions and speed, which surely is the safety critical thing.

That's what I mean by outdated.

RSVA developed as a concept when control towers had no surveillance capability.

A tower controller that looks out of the window, that is so last season!!!

Being an old fashioned, retired bod who reads about these "new innovations" with a fairly open mind, I'm having a little trouble seeing how the remote operation of LCY brings any benefits.

You still have to have a controller, presumably controlling, albeit now from a dark windowless room, (that should make up for all those brilliantly dazzling sunrises and sunsets) on the sunny south coast. Whilst up at LCY all the "skills" that were inherent in said controller now have to be supplemented by lots of CCTVs with infra-red capabilities or whatever and at what cost? Oh, did anyone mention cleaning said CCTV lenses when they fog up or get crap on them at just the wrong moment?

Not one to stand in the way of progress, but where is the cost saving, if this is what it's all about? Where's the job satisfaction? Sounds to me like another idea pinched from an under-utilised airport in Northern Norway that some poor misguided management "yoof" decided he would use to make his mark on his steady progression to the top.

Thankfully, I'm now well retired (not before time, I hear some shout) but I do miss those beautiful sunrises and sunsets and the bonhommie, not to mention the professional respect, engendered by a wave or thumbs up after a "greaser" or a well executed cross-wind landing at the limits, or that not so good bouncer.

I can't say I envy the "new" tower controllers at LCY Swanwick. They will miss out on what were some of the most enjoyable experiences of my time in ATC.

Think carefully about what you consider to be progress and be sure your UPS works!

I knew LCY controllers were good.....didn't realise they could see into the IR band though! :}

One thing that needs consideration, what to do about the 200' spiders that will crawl across the lens without warning?

Air knives!

Question was asked of Remote Tower salespeople at Amsterdam and Madrid exhibitions. You blow a constant stream of warm air across the face of the lens, thereby removing said spides and web.

HB

so now we need a hot air blower system (and backup) to all cameras, perhaps we could pipe it direct from head office - bound to never fail or run out that way!!!!

Makes me think that they're building this all on some very weak foundations... I fail to see, after much perusal, the benefits of the remote towers. I'm always open to new ideas or procedures, and am often one to 'go with the flow' as my other half says but I don't buy it. Recently on a visit to a unit on the other side of the country I saw the R-TWR in operation, only to see the derrière of a bird blocking one of the cameras!! Just another mantra adopted by a new hot-shot in HR if you ask me..

If control towers are 'a thing of the past', why have they put one on 'HMS Queen Elizabeth' then? Surely a digital VCR would would have the edge here?

Oh, and some planes would be handy, too. :E

No IR imagery - it was investigated but hot engine exhaust was found to look too much like fire, and aircraft parked on a cold apron left aircraft-shaped IR shadows after they taxied... So its visual imagery (via the cameras) supplemented by radar blocks etc, and all the other gizmos already available in a bricks-and-mortar tower.

http://bit.ly/2zrdVt6

NATS tied in for a decade at LCY.

Typical PR fluff but it says they ARE building a new tower after all, if so, why on Earth use digital tech on a level for which it was never intended?

I think that's a bit of an unfortunate wording.

From what I understand the new tower is not a control tower in the old fashioned sense, it is a tower to mount the cameras on. I would guess it has more in common with a phone mast or an electricity pylon than an old fashioned tower cab.

Agreed CV - I understand those doing the digital controlling will be based at Swanwick.

The blurb says: "...with significant benefits and efficiencies for the airport" I'd love to know what they are.

It means they can put more stands on the airport and make more money. I don't see much beyond that

There's talk now of 'band-boxing' 2 airfields using the same ATCO on a common frequency.

It's madness.

Well. that is what it really is all about. The last thing to exercise the minds of the people involved in these developments is ATC safety & integrity !

"Safety is our number one priority, certainly not shareholder's dividends !" said spokesperson Mr.Pinocchio ........

In a real tower an ATCO can grab binoculars for a closer look at something, a fuel leak, damage visible etc. I assume this still happens? Does one lose the ability to get in close in real time (i.e. faster than looking for a zooming control and reimaging) when in a digital tower? Am thinking landing gear issue or panels open or missing....

Airfield familiarisation runs will take considerably longer too.

The screen resolution is high enough that you can use binoculars on the screen. It obviously won't be nearly as effective as a camera, but it is possible. My guess though is that after a few months on this system moving the zoom-camera around will be just as quick. Not to mention it can be locked to track an object, making it much more effective than a pair of binoculars to monitor something.

I'm not sure normal binos will focus that close in anyway.

So... it’s 2020... any update to the LCY digital tower operation / solution?

I guess you'll find out when the time comes.
Brexit is happening next week and we don't know much about that either...

https://www.aviationnews-online.com/...use-expansion/

Expansion paused, has the Digital Tower gone live yet?

Genuine question - where do NATS stand if LCY now say they no longer need the digital tower or the expense associated with it? Is the on site airfield ATC facility still serviceable? I guess all airfields will be desperate to save cash, I don't think there are many who have spare cash to use on what is in effect a vanity project which has been sold to them by snake oil salesmen. I can't imagine digital towers being a massive priority for quite some time with airfields that have a perfectly adequate on site facility.

The digital VCR for London City was mainly conceived out of the airport plan to use the Control Tower site for stand expansion. If this expansion goes ahead and the Control needs demolishing, the cost of the digital VCR is supposedly equal to that of building a new Control Tower, if a suitable site can be found.

Yes, clearly it would be subject to the expansion going ahead, which is by no means a given.

i.e. for the wrong reason?:)

2 s

Is it still intended that the controllers operating the digital tower for City will be at Swanwick?
I heard a rumour that this is also planned for Manston when it re-opens.

When Manston re-opens ?

Planned for Swanwick. In time perhaps the London City controllers could be cross trained to remotely control other airports such as Southampton? Of course in 8 years time another ANS provider could win and take-over the contract and do it from anywhere....Germany, Ireland, Sweden but hopefully not China!

If one good thing comes out of this pandemic, I really hope that the entire remote tower concept is postponed for many years. As an old grumpy ATCO who has seen a great deal of change over the years (and the majority of changes very good), this has to be the daftest change I have come across. Its been a case of inventing a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist, then presenting it as the saviour of ATC and the future for all airports. Anyone raising objections is scorned as a technophobe and old fashioned. Safety concerns are risk assessed and sidelined. The entire project is dressed up in a safety first package when the real concern is pounds and pence, although I suppose that covers all ATC these days!

So when is ATC at LCY scheduled to switch to digital? What’s the current timeframe and is it aligned with the original?

Excellent exposition, escaped.atco, of the Emperor's New Clothes saga that is remote towers!

2 s

And only today, NATS are running a facebook poll on what is the greatest ever invention for ATC. The irony is that alongside radio and radar, they are pushing digital tower as a contender.

Should be the 'Early Go List'!

My source says lots of negotiations ongoing by beancounters and other people with no working knowledge or experience of civil ATC but looking to do it on the cheap.
Reckons a possible candidate for the 'remote tower' would be ANS at Gatwick!!
Who will do APS I don't know.(ANS Edinburgh?)