I agree with the main points in this thread, however would it not be better to reply to Mr Everitt directly? His e-mail address is at the top of the letter.
Short e-mails, without too many personal attacks;)
That way he may read a few and the numbers will reflect our strong feelings.

Well Expeditedescent,

You can take what you have written, print it on a letter to Mr E and sign my name on the bottom. These are exactly the pertinent points we should be making to counter the management drivel.

I seriously believe that we really must get every single controller to write back to Mr E, well its only being poilite isn't it. I don't think e-mailing would be effective as we all know how easily they can be delited without being read. However a letter from each and every one of us would send the loudest and most defiant message management that is possible at this time. Urge your unioin reps to organise this tomorrow and make sure EVERYBODY has written back by Friday latest and if possible the unioins should get us his home address. I mean its not as if it would take us long to do, you could knock it up in a break but it will send an clear and unignorable (sorry dont know if that's a real word) signal.

Downto5

I agree and I am at the moment typing a letter to tricky dicky to be e-mailed and followed up by snail mail. Also I am going to send a copy to Mrs Dunwoody to show how I feel and explain that many of us do feel the same and perhaps she should visit PPRuNe to see what we all think.

I cannot believe that people can vote in favour of this. What was the best payrise we have had in the last 10 years? I don't think we have had more than 3% in this period and so we have fallen behind the average and the rest of the world. I say let us all resign on the same day so that within 2 to 2 1/2 months when excess leave kicks in, there will be no one left to work. We only come back on improved conditons and many get jobs elsewhere and then the ATC system would be crippled all because the government decided to push through PPP. Or would this be a conspiracy theory?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Minesapint....

Why are you so adamant that we will get no more this year? Just curious because it seems to me (and the CAA) that the money really is there.

Mr. Moderator...
Yes your opinion is as valid as everyone else's. I happen not to agree with you. Everitt had no URGENT need to contact me AT HOME, and certainly has no justification for using 1st Class Postage. This is pure waste... but now we know that the company ain't so hard up so it doesn't matter quite so much.

I detect a certain amount of desperation in Richards letter. As Expeditedescent has said, the Airlines cannot afford any more disruption... paying our claim is small potatoes by comparison with what they would lose should any industrial action occur.

BTW I did not make this personal. By writing to ME at home the NATS CE did.

Rgds BEX

Bex are you sure your'e not me as I seem to generally agree with you on most things?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

try this
 

Hi all

Very honest answers
and by the sounds of it
very Pi$$ed off staff
mail him using Ghostmail 5.1
and give 'Kenny' BOTH BARRELS

Mm:cool:

Nope, I'm definitely me. How do I know? There's a beer in my fridge with my name on it, not yours :p

rgds BEX

So do you think Circo have gone for good, do so at your peril! Circo have had access to masses of financial and personnel issues whilst considering a cash injection.

NATS has been financed via venture capital. We have seen how 3i have moved Go on for a clear profit. In a couple of years time, if NATS is still partially privatised, the banks will want another fast buck. Who can they sell it to? Remember easy looked at Go last year and said no, then paid good money for them due probably to the regulation at that time of the industry.

NATS staff should not be worrying about 6% now, but of the future in a couple of years, when Circo could become the possible owners of the private part of NATS. The BAA cannot pull out of their contracts for where would they get the staff from unless those controllers and support staff resigned and joined the BAA, remember the staff in the centres that vector aircraft onto the approach, the BAA would need radar rooms or pay HEAVILY increased charges.

A previous post intimated that if controllers lost their jobs with NATS where would they go? So if a Circo'd NATS cut your salary and increased your hours up to a legal limit what would you do. Strike action threatened does not work, for not enough staff will actually support it. A cut in salary makes up for a loss of ones job. This is how companies like Circo exist.

I have read the letter, although I am not a staff member, and it appears to be a typical propaganda exercise, but think of it from my view point. The airlines control NATS, they are themselves battling against their own tide of problems. They want investment to reduce delays and enhance capacity, therefore increasing their own profit potential. The CAA have not allowed increased charges on the scale required by NATS (Or their banks), this affects their ability to invest. The bankers decide in a few months to rid themselves of NATS shares, who will offer good money?

The airlines and airport users of NATS will not want this, but if the banks decide to, it will happen. Cassani had no input into 3i selling off her beloved Go.

Just a few Circo thoughts?

SERCO SERCO SERCO Sierra Echo Romeo Charlie Oscar.:D :D :D

Presumably you mean SERCO?

Anyway, I disagree with your assertion that Strike Action will not work as "not enough people will support it".

One) The feeling is more militant that you seem to think.

Two) The disruption caused in one 24 hour period would be enough to service our pay asperations. Even if we only took action for ONE day and then accepted the current offer, NATS and the Airlines would be BOTH out of pocket. (I do NOT advocate this at all)

NATS took a sensible line when it came to settling the EDS contract dispute out of court, when it became apparent that a court imposed settlement would have cost MILLIONS and lead to more embarrasing revelations. A sensible attitude to settling our pay claim is now called for, as the alternative, like the EDS court action, will cost MILLIONS.

rgds BEX

I could not believe the affront of the man when I got this mornings post! Apart from the bullying tone and "everyone else is going to accept so you should too" tone, frankly if we so short of cash surely it should have either been on the company e-mail or internal post! Dick could not have found a surer way to make me vote no!

Quite apart from that, at work we also had a visit from our manager, while plugged in, to ask how we all felt about the pay deal and which element none of us liked about it! Apparently we are having a visit from Human Resources (!) to talk to us about the pay deal, and talk us through our feelings!!!

Seems to me that management could be a little bit worried here!
Don't remember getting a billet-doux during last pay round!

This is all rather interesting stuff and I for one am happy that you can't yet take it private on the NATS forum <G>...

Over here if the employer would have written us or even talked to us about what was good for us during pay negotiations we would have filed charges against the employer since it is not allowed...

I wish all of you luck in your endevours... By the way, I am sitting here reading all of this while watching a group of our controllers in Washington DC for the week. We put on a gathering once a year where we get a LOT of controllers together who are legislative activists and we decend on Capitol Hill and talk with our legislators for the week about what WE want to see happen with avaiation... If I find the web site that you can see it on I'll post it in a thread. It's quite long and about two hours...

regards

Just a thought, perhaps it is important that NATS pay issues are debated in public. To a certain extent, NATS pay levels are what the non-state providers use as a benchmark. This could affect us all.

Remember Gents (to quote a negotiation instructor)

"You don't get what you deserve, you get what you settle for."

Think about it.

Dear Lads/Lasses,

Just a little note to explain what has happened here at Skyguide(formerly swisscontrol) as by reading your comments it reminds me of recent procedings here.

We had negociated a pay rise of 6% over 2 years, but then panicking management went back on their offer and wrote to us (at home) claiming that a lack of money and existing financial obligations meant that they had to rethink the situation. They even used the threat of job losses to impose their views.

After having voted on the subject most ATCOs bended to the pressure and voted yes to the measures which included freezing the normal yearly incremental pay scale rises!

I for one voted no and was infuriated to receive yet another letter at home explaining how the yes voters were (I qoute) MATURE in their choice, implying of course that the rest of us were not. Great respect of employees!

Now here I am with increasing bills, increasing medical insurance(no NHS here) and stuck with the same pay.

My advice to you is to vote NO NO NO to the offer. If your union were to use some good PR you would have the public on your side. They, as you, do not wan't another railtrack etc etc.

Good luck.:(

Well well...

All I can say so far is I'm with those who think that we should reject the offer and be prepared to back it up with industrial action if necessary.

Let's just consider the SERCO / sacking for industrial action scenario for a minute:

Any company which takes on NATS will surely have to give guarantees in terms of reducing delays, increasing capacity, reducing charges etc. At Swanwick, we are now often working up to the maximum period allowed by SRATCOH and taking minimum fatigue breaks. Even doing this, we are not able to offer the maximum capacity of Swanwick due to insufficient staff (not able to open S33 for example). To sack ANYBODY, whether as a new owner trying to cut costs or as revenge for industrial action, will make all those required guarantees unachievable for YEARS. Any reduction in training time or increase in working time will require protracted legal negotiation with the likes of SRG or the CAA (who yesterday told NATS where to stick their latest cry for help!). It simply won't happen, and that is why Mr Everitt is trying to forestall further action.

I must say that I don't actually object to receiving a letter at home, although second class post would seem a cheaper option (and if they can give me a personalised label on the envelope why can't they put my name at the top of the letter?). The letter reads very reasonably, and you can bet that there are those who were not so sure who will say: 'OK then, let's give you another chance'.
However, as many have said before, this is the time we need to make a stand. The place is creaking at the seams, and the local management seem incapable of doing anything other than firefighting to keep it stumbling along as we lurch from one near-crisis to another. By NATS' own admission yesterday, they have £50m+ surplus on their investment plan to develop the business. The most important part of any business is its workforce, and if you get that on a secure and happy footing, then the rest is relatively easy. The flexibility you need to introduce changes is there and so on. It certainly isn't now!! Spend the money and get a happy workforce, and then see what the difference is.

It'll be interesting to see what the mood is when I go back to work tomorrow..:rolleyes:

To the person, whose name I forget, who said 'go and work somewhere else. Oh, you can't 'cos you're not qualified' (sic), all I would say is that if you are one of these Approach and/or Tower ATCOs and you think that makes you bomb-proof, then think again. There are far more people who hold your type of ratings than hold mine, so I suggest you are the one who would be an easy target for replacement if SERCO or whoever were to take over. :D

One thing Mr E, doesn't 2.2+3.7% = 5.9% NOT 6%?
Small point but worth noting.

Not quite...

2.2% + 3.7% = 5.98% Overall

Still not 6%, though.

BEX

Richards Letter
 

Just a point relating to Richards quote that the avaiation industry recovery "IF WE CAN CALL IT THAT" is proving as slow as predicted, I and i believe many of my colleagues would not agree with that at 7.00am on a monday morning, I also would like to point richard to the advert at the top of this forum, 150 737's for Ryan creating how many jobs!!!! why not Make it 149 and use the money to pay atco's what we are worth. The recovery does not not seem that slow!!!!!

Look on the bright side......

If you think that you are maxxed out now - remember that we should be 12% busier!!!