Heathrow Holding....
 

Our politicians want to reduce aircraft holding. A report on BBC News says: "According to the report, excessive stacking over Heathrow, in west London, had "negative environmental impacts".

When I worked there, aircraft used to hold many miles from Heathrow. Presumably the procedures have changed so they now all hold overhead Heathrow............ or might it just be that our wonderful politicians are, as always, talking out of their bottoms about matters they know nothing about?

Politicians talk BS any chance they can get, just to gain a few 'green' votes.

There you go SkyNews. Feel free to quote me again.

MP said they should reduce heathrow stacking before they get the third runway.....which is exactly what the third runway is supposed to do!

...Not quite true - they are hoping that a 3rd runway would up movements at Heathrow by an extra circa 200,00 per year (off the top of my head).

Not exactly the way to reduce holding!

to be fair though HD, excessive stacking, be it over Heathrow or many miles from Heathrow does have "negative environmental impacts".

Del Prado... It was said to be MPs who made the comment, not journalists as you have made it look, although I accept that journalists talk rubbish.

The holding areas are remote from Heathrow - several over fairly open country - so the suggestion that aircraft stack over West London is a total nonsene. That was my point.

Does anyone have any idea how many hours in a year aircraft hold for?

Reduce stacking and consider limiting flights over AONB's and National Parks
 

The Select Committee press release (UK Parliament - transpn090710) refers to stacking 'around Heathrow, not 'over Heathrow',
Instead of judging the MPs' work by reading 180 words of a BBC News report, why not read the actual Select Committee Report - nearly 300 pages, including evidence - (http://www.publications.parliament.u...an/163/163.pdf). Some of the witnesses called actually seem to be quite knowledgeable, even if they do work in a office!

Read the report, thanks. Typical sentence:

<<Stacking—whereby aircraft are kept waiting in the air around the airport before air traffic control gives permission to land>>

"Speedbird 123, this is Heathrow Airport, you have permission to land".

Sorry, I live in a different Universe.

These are the same journalists that this morning on BBC News "Breakfast" program reported that a BA plane evacuated "whilst taxiing along the runway". Quite clearly looks to be still on stand to me..........

So which witness are you, Pelton?

How dare they not know the intricacies of air traffic control inside out? They have some nerve. Laymen speaking in laymens terms, whatever next?:rolleyes:

Do us all a favour and give the elitist claptrap a rest.

Scuzi.. It's not "elitist claptrap", whatever you mean by that. This is a forum for professional people whose working lives are governed by detailed procedures, rules and regulations. It irritates me somewhat to see that those who rule our whole lives and decide our futures cannot, apparently, get things right.

it IS elitist claptrap. and YOU are a dullard.

HD, I can see where you are coming from but surely you must understand that the press have to report such matters in language their readers can understand. On the same note, politicians are not aviation professionals and have to have such matters explained to them in term they understand.
Most people couldn't give a crap if the Heathrow holds are overhead the airfield or 10-20 miles out, or the the difference between an apron, taxiway and runway.

Lambasting them for speaking in laymens terms comes across as elitist.

Perhaps HD can come up with a simple, accurate, easy to understand, description of stacking that the committee clerk can use the next time a Select Committee examines air traffic control?

PeltonLevel,
HD does not need to waste his hard-earned retirement doing this.
MATS Pt1, (CAP493) clearly defines a Holding Procedure as "A pre-determined manoeuvre which keeps an aircraft within a specified airspace whilst awaiting further clearance"
Or the press/politicians could consult the excellent ATC book by Graham Duke. Check it out yourself, it might save a lot of time/bandwidth on these fora. You might find 'I Spy At The Airport' useful too! :E
P.S.
Louise Ellman MP won't like RIAT then. :}

This discussion, and the linked reports are all continuing proof of the existence of:-
NELADD. - New-Labour Dumbing-Down.

OK, instead of:

<<Stacking—whereby aircraft are kept waiting in the air around the airport before air traffic control gives permission to land>>

Try something like:

Aircraft are held, some distance from the airport, before being directed by ATC into the landing sequence.

I am sorry that some people don't share my views and descend to insults but it concerns me that Joe Public knows so little about what goes on. I believe that it would be better to educate rather than baffle them. I live to the west of Heathrow and there only have to be a few days of easterlies before the moans appear in the local paper and councillors express concern about "changed flight paths", etc.

HD
Thanks - it's much better and still brief!

Thinking about it,the original gives the impression that aircraft sort of spiral into the airport.