Lots of people who have come to totally rely on the reliable systems created by engineers would whinge about how they have to pick up the pieces because the engineers couldn't do their job properly.

To spread these whinges as widely as possible they would use home computers that hang, crash or otherwise malfunction weekly

:rolleyes:

Not sure what ProM is getting at... but if my PC crashes, not too many people end up dead. If radar fails at a busy ATC Unit it's the controllers who are at the sharp end and have to pick up the pieces and prevent people from getting dead, not the whizz-kids who designed the gear. I've been there, got the tee-shirt and eaten the stew!

It might happen once in a lifetime, but in that brief 5-10 minutes the controllers earn their whole life's salary, just a pilot earns his when he has a major malfunction of his aeroplane.

Trouble is it was always so difficult to convey this to the engineering chasps, for whom I had incredibly high regard.

HD

That "once in a life time" happened to me on three occasions. I must be very old! Or unlucky.

Most memorable time was at W Drayton one evening when it all went dark in the ops room (just the emergency lighting working). Then the lights went on, then back out again then on. I was on a break at the time, and was conscious of the eery quieteness (no strip printers running)....although every controller in the ops room was on his feet, reaching for the emergency RT handsets. I went back to my sector to lend a hand. I forget the cause now, it was something to do with the power supply modules deciding they were no longer un interruptable.....ho hum.

Loki.

Your spell of being unlucky started at 9am, Monday 4th June 1973.

Oh, and you are also very old.

C. :ok:

Mr Grubby

Thanks, can always rely on some people for a kind word or two.

I had two at Maastricht. One was when the mains power was cut, the diesel generator suffered a hydraulic lock and blew the cylinder head through the roof and then the Tech Watch Supervisor managed to short out the batteries.
It went very quiet and very dark in the Ops. Room.

All data/phone lines etc coming into the building are duplicated and run on different routes. Only where they enter the building do they come together. Guess where a contractor dug a hole. Again very wuiet, No radar, no R/T, no phones - at least that time we had lights.

Fortunately, we had very few problems in a stripless environment. The few we had when I was there, there was enough time on a frozen picture to jot down essential information before switching to a much improved back-up system. Nowadays all that info can be printed out on the sectors.

I think yours is the same as I used to use. You both heard wrong, it was "It will fail 49 times each year".

Reassuringly for those that print what we type here for the general unknowledged to panic about, I've never had a total loss in real life but have had it simulated 4 times in 7 years during Emergency Training. Its not the same, but I get the idea.

That sounds about right. One controller in particular has had two complete failures in two consecutive cycles, the second failure including a failure of the backup secondary panel at the same time.

The Radar is fine. It's the radio that you need to worry about :ugh:

5milesbaby..... Keep saying your prayers and always expect the unexpected... and the expected!!

The West Drayton ops room went dark in the early 90's too. An uninteruptable power supply er 'wasn't'. Back to battery R/T!! It took around 4 hours to fix, the NAS system did not like having its plug pulled either. That 'issue' caused the complete overhaul of power supplies to ops kit.

When Radar Fails
 

The world of ATC is a fascinating world.When radar fails, the team spirit reaches high levels of comradeship.Adjacent Ctlers 'feel' the need to support one another.When the Kuala Lumpur ATCC was burning back in the 90's, Ctlers who were on OFF rushed back to see what needs to be done.There was so much of cooperation from the Military and Ctlers from neighbouring countries.Such is the comradeship spirit among Ctlers. We still think ,discuss and pray for Ctlers who go thru mental tortures due to incidents/accidents in various parts of the world. With today's traffic, radar failures can be nightmares BUT then again, we are trained to handle such nightmares to the BEST of our abilities. Not forgetting too the tremendous cooperation from the pilots, things can be rectified by various methods.My two cents.:ok:

OI!

why was my post deleted from yesterday?

The West Drayton power system was far too complicated and those who designed the system at Swanwick certainly learned from the experiences of total loss at WD.
The classic WD failure happened when one of the Uninterruptible Power Supplies was taken out for maintenance and no-one had checked to see what the load was on the remaining three. Unfortunately, the load wasn't balanced and one of the remaining units overloaded and tripped out. Of course, care had been taken to ensure that any failure would only take out every other radar display. Care had also been taken to ensure that any failure would also only take out every other RDP computer. HOWEVER, no-one had ensured that the displays which stayed on were attached to the computers that stayed on ...

Because most of us have bitten our nails down to our elbows!

Seriously, I guess as one is working, the thought that the radar picture might suddenly go off doesn't come to mind; much like most pilots aren't sitting there waiting for an engine to conk out. However, what they have and what ATC does not (or did not) is a QRH. Controllers are regularly trained for all sorts of eventualities, but when something untoward occurs the actions taken are largely in the order that the controller(s) involved decide. During my radar training at Heathrow during quiet periods one training officer would put a newspaper on the radar screen and say "Radar's packed up, what are you going to do now?" Not by the book, but very useful.

R/T failure is not so bad - most ATC positions have one, maybe two, standby arrangements so communication should still be possible.

Fred used to use a dustbin lid on the flat-tops.....

Aaahh.. They don't make 'em like that nowadays!!

Guy I know who taught overseas (like me!) was watching a trainee on radar with two aircraft converging so he asked the trainee what he would do.. "Ahh Mr xxx, I find that if I close my eyes and pray, all will be well". He did, and it was.................

Are you sure you hadn't misunderstood, HD, and all he wanted was some help with the crossword ... ?


JD
;)

Jumbo driver.... Yes, I'm sure you're right, but he had to make it look good!!