May I suggest you ask any BEC members at your unit what went on at the SDC and they can fill you in with all the details.
Unless they signed up to another confidentiality clause after conference!

Actually it's bloody hard because I've tried it. As soon as you go back past 6 years you run into a whole series of staggered payrises and non pensionable add ons which make it almost impossible to calculate. It's also questionable whether or not you should include wage rises pre PPP as representative of future settlements although my figures suggest they were generally worse than since.

For ATCE, STAR, MSG and in most years ATSA grades I think the most recent figures going back are RPI + 0.25, RPI, 2.8% + £500 non pensionable (representative RPI for that year was 3.4%), RPI + 0.6, RPI + 0.6

If anything summarises the tactics of those trying to secure a 'yes' vote then this does.

Why not produce all the pay settlement figures and the attendant RPI numbers so we can assess the historical impact of the cap for ourselves?

We know the reason and that's the fear of the 'yes' side that staff will realise their pensions are going to be crippled by this cap and in many cases will reduce the final benefits to 1/2 salary or worse.

Even the modeller itself doesn't show the continuing huge impact of the cap after the 15 year period assuming it is scrapped at that point.

Staff are looking at losing tens of thousands and in some cases hundreds of thousands of pounds but aren't being told this.

"We know the reason and that's the fear of the 'yes' side that staff will realise their pensions are going to be crippled by this cap and in many cases will reduce the final benefits to 1/2 salary or worse."


That's on the assumption that we would have got RPI+1.5% pensionable pay for the next 15 years though, isn't it?

Is this meant to be humorous?

Yes, sorry. Just making sure I wasn't being ignored.... This site is like dipping a toe in the North Sea in Feb if you're considering "not voting no" :O

I can see that, if either of these polls is representative of voting intentions of the membership as a whole, the the noes have it by a fair margin.

The problem is, there is a difference between very basic maths and statistics.
I know that the arithmetic mean of 83 and 60 is 71 and the arithmetic mean of 40 and 17 is 29 (both rounded). But, not knowing the size of either sample, or whether anyone has voted in both polls, it is not possible to combine the results in any meaningful fashion.
:ugh:
:ugh:
:ugh:
:confused::confused::confused:
:ugh:
:ugh:
:ugh:

After your first post, not likely. :ok:

eglnyt,

Can I be forward enough to ask your (rough) age and how long you've been with NATS? Fair enough if you don't want to answer.

(I'm mid-30s with 14 years in the scheme btw).

Superb work everyone! Only another 150 posts or so, plumped up by mathematical debate, and this will soon be the biggest thread in the ATC forum :ok:

RS

wtf is the biggest one about then? :eek:

Luncheon vouchers

A-ha...that'd be the sticky a couple of threads up then. :}

What were they? Never got any of those :}

RS

A taxable benefit (non-pensionable) in lieu of a subsidised restaurant/canteen.

Clearly wasn't sarcastic enough...... not all NATS locations got them.:uhoh:

"Others" get Aramark :ok:

I've heard good things about 'Aramark'.











Or was it Primark.

It would've been Primark, cheap and good value. Aramark is cheapish and there the similarity ends - although they do a good line in slop.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1297/...27272e.jpg?v=0

Not welcome here! :sad:

Luncheon vouchers
 

At least I managed to keep my input relevant to this thread!

.................:)

I think I've given up trying to post things relevent to the thread as no-one wants to listen and my head can't take being banged against a brick wall any more :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Anyway, we can't really complain about posting off subject on here - just about every NATSNET non-pension related news item and even the picture of the day have been hijacked by the pension issue grumblers:}

RS

p.s. VOTE YES

NO!

Mine has been handed back to the Royal Mail for delivery to Chertsey by tomorrow. Interesting that they request votes ASAP, but have brain-washing sessions for another fortnight.

Just returned my NO vote. The final straw was all the bull!!!!! that came with it this morning, "please, pretty please vote yes"...no chance.

VOTE NO:ok:

My NO is on the way too.
Did anyone else notice that the envelopes were printed upside down so they open at the bottom:D

happy days :ok:

I noticed that too...says it all really doesnt it?!

luncheon vouchers .... ah heathrow tower.. in the good old days

Part of the reason they don't provide that info is that they know (sadly) it'll be mis-used to produce all kinds of fantastic scenarios one way or the other. But the information is available, you just need to actually look for it.

See the post above yours for example:

So.. That's 3 years under the cap and 2 years at 0.1% above it. This isn't exactly proving the point that the modeller (1% over the cap) gives an accurate indication of the hit you're going to take is it?

I returned my No vote today... I don't support the proposal but I do tire of the reactionary and sensationalist arguments against some of it. The reasons to oppose are strong enough without exaggerating them.

P.S. Luncheon Vouchers.... Get em.... Hate em. Give me the money instead please!

my NO is crossed and will be winging its way to Chertsey today.

My YES is crossed and on it's way to Chertsey also!

I noticed they are branch ballots as suspected, not an all-in-one count - should make the results interesting.

Now what shall we find to debate about now? :)

RS

Latest from the scientific Pension vote poll http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

Poll Results latest


NO ....81%....86 http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

YES....19%....20 http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/sowee.gif

Looking conclusive so far......and remember this, Management have gone from "there is no other option if you vote no" to "It depends on the size of the No Vote" ... FACT not fiction ! So what does that tell you? Basically, they have another option and have been , lets say, economical with some of the facts and will be caught out if the no vote prevails!
If you vote yes, you are a turkey voting for XMAS
http://toons.artie.com/thanksgiving/...-strut-url.gifhttp://artie.com/20001014/arg-turkey-ch0p-url.gif


Vote Here http://static.pprune.org/images/infopop/icons/icon2.gif
http://snappoll.com/poll/301858.php

VOTE NO :ok::ok::ok::ok:

MERRY XMAS

My NOvote is also on its way today.

Some of you lot would make me laugh if this wasn't such a serious issue.......

Empty barrels make the most noise.

Let folks vote as they see fit without you trying to coerce them with big colourful letters.

It's nobody else's business which way you voted..... just be sure that when you place the cross that you know the ramifications of your actions.

Don't give up yet - the ballot hasn't closed and when we know the results from the three sections we will be able to debate the consequences!:O

Yes, coz the Union bull!!!!! that arrived with my ballot paper this morning was IN NO WAY attempting to coerce me to vote YES was it now??

Vote NO, loving your work mate....have you considered a career in graphic design? Good pension I hear.....:}

Funny you should mention the propaganda that arrived with the ballot paper..... I too threw the lot in the rubbish bin :}.
Quite frankly the Union speel was embarassing and a last ditch pathetic attempt to save their shoddy positions:mad:

I am a NATS atco who is over 18. I can make my own mind up over which way to vote without the rantings which go on from certain people on this thread. Vote No did you read it before it went in the bin,and when are you putting yourself up for a union rep as everybody else seems to be doing a bad job

I didn't read it, at least not fully. I don't wish to represent anyone as a rep, but thanks for your support :ok:, and I agree with your comment that "everyone else is doing such a bad job" :{

vote no
you did not read it and you do not wish to represent anybody you are talking Bull!!!!