300kts? 290kts? The actual speed makes no difference aslong as its one you know the aircraft can fly. The point is "maintain high speed" could mean 260kts to the first one when the one behind is doing 300kts. If you tell the first one 290kts or greater and the second 290kts or less then they'll never be a problem.

Tonker....agreed!

"Finals" would suggest we are about to perform more than one approach at the same time.

Trivial PursuitS,

or to cringe at the worst one of all.............

DeanS Cross..........

'Fully' Ready :* Number one super dooper really, really annoying hated term!
'Fully' Parked (as opposed to what?) :*
'Fully' Established :*
'With you' :*
'And..XXX123 request taxi' :*
'Dean's Cross'

If one is unsure of our cleared level what is best? 'Radar....for crew co-ordination please confirm cleared level for ABC123' that seems to be trendy nowadays seems a bit long-winded?

What about;

"On request of the next sector, fly heading..."

do we really care which ATCO is asking for the heading? surely its a seemless service?

but thats so we don't look like the numpty who needs the heading! :E

i do use "at the request of the next sector" when i've cleared you to your cruising level and the next sector can't take you at that level at short notice. Its to say i would get you to your requested level if i could but the next sector won't let me.

Kiltie, FL370,

Agree re Deancross however if you use Aerads you'll find that they are guilty of adding an S too on one of the GLA plates (possibly climb gradient page).

On a slightly different note, do you think shop attendants have a forum where they complain about their customers' verbose and superfluous statements?

And finally, re. the use of 'go ahead': At many of the airports we operate from ATC pass the IFR clearance while we are taxiing eg. "Rhubarb124 hold A1, your clearance when ready." What would you suggest is the appropriate RT response?

sr

Pass your message?

Fireflybob - correct. Prefixed of course with the "Hold A1" bit. Or "Hold A1, standby..." if you're too busy.

Or of course, why not throw CAP413 out of the window and say "READY TO COPY" which sounds much cooler.

Apparently. :rolleyes:

I've just done 2 sectors and heard half a dozen aircraft start a conversation with "Rhubarb 123 STANDING BY for descent."

Why do they not REQUEST descent? Is this some form of misguided hint-dropping to controllers that they should know everybody's optimum top of descent point and to waken up?

In the UK: "turn right HEADING 020 DEGREES"
PLease lose the "degrees "part if you are issueing a heading and not a turn.

Correct is: ABC123, Turn right heading 020.
much safer as it avoids thinking you need to turn 20 DEGREES!

not entirely our fault. Its a NATS thing wereby we have been told to say degrees at the end of every heading that ends in a zero. Its supposed to stop confusion between headings and levels. It does work where the holding headings are very similar to the levels of the sector.

There seems to be an aversion to the use of the word "Request", also as in "Is there any chance of FL XXX, we're in moderate turbulence at blah blah blah!"

Why NOT just say "REQUEST FLXXX" ? or "REQUEST Descent?"

despegue

Correct is not.

When you are flying in UK airspace it is correct protocol to use the word "degrees" at the end of a heading that ends with a zero for the reasons given above.

1985 - it's not just a NATS thing but a rule developed by the authority for pilots and controllers overall. However, it's well known that NATS promote the use of "degrees" with every heading, which is not strictly standard but enhances safety nonetheless.

Artie Fufkin
 

Totally agree with your "at the request of the next sector". Garbage like that has joined the hundred and one other useless bits of crap that we hear every day. Life's too short to worry about whether the pilot might think my personal judgement might have been wrong....I credit pilots with more intelligence....they KNOW how busy it is up there!
I'm not going to break into tears if the next sector can't take my traffic.

hmmmm...my best one so far....I enquired why a pilot had taken descent without my permission....his answer...."I couldn't get a word in to request it so I took it anyway".....cheers mate!!!!:ugh::ugh:...about that aircraft in your 1 o'clock 3 miles....:ok:

XXX clearance delivery---Rhubarb124[if initial call] hold A1-- ready to copy"



or alternately,

Roger Wilco xxx Clearance Delivery --Rhubarb124 ---we are standing by full ready---we are to hold short at alpa 1---standing by ready to copy at your discretion over:}

PA

It's not a "pet hate" per se, but since I've had my (female) trainee with a french/german accent [which I'll admit sounds better than my australian one] I've certainly heard a lot more non-standard phraseologies while sitting behind her.

Things like "please" and "thank you" and "if it's not too much trouble" :rolleyes:

Alwaysvalued, working southern NT and Northern QLD perchance (ASP<->CNS)?

Excuse me for being in the wrong (I suspect) but had a situation when I called London with 'maintaining flight level 180, heading 155 to avoid weather'...London insisted on it being 'heading 155 degrees' - is this new?? or have I been getting it wrong for yonks??

As I understand it, the word degrees is added to any heading ending in 'zero' here in the UK, or just for extra clarity even if ending in a 'five'.

pp

727 exec your initial transmission was correct. It is specific only to NATS controllers to add "degrees" to headings ending in a five, you are under no obligation to do so nor breaking any rules.