Would 3 going back even balance the traffic in the other direction? I doubt it. (I'm not one of those going back ;) )

Ferris,
Not many leaving now, down from a flood to a trickle.Perhaps 3 won't make much difference but 20 might.

Watsup...Where are the 3 going back currently working?

Haha- the 20 are rumours! The 3 might be closer to the fact. Even 20 offers (were it true) might only yield 3 bodies.

Once again, AsA are back to shafting the staff who are already there. Can't be released? :hmm: Might want to check where the 'returnees' go. Ahh, so many rumours, so little man-management.

I can see the scenario already. OS ex AsA controller is offered a gig and promises of going to a certain sector. They arrive and find themselves not on that sector but on Tops with the usual 'operational requirements' line trotted out and additional excuses like 'that person did not have the authority to promise you that'.:rolleyes:

(I did not atually post in this thread, it is an illusion)

The 70,000 dollar 5 year bond may scare a few away but also we heard the rumour of more than 25 got job offers.Can't for the life of me work out where these guys are currently working, or perhaps they are retired .Anyway ,going to beddie-byes, have to get up in 6 hours to watch the soccer. Night-night.

To quote former World Superbike Champion Niel Hodgson "I'd rather eat my own s... than race for those guys"

20 ex-AsA bodies from O.S.? telling him he's dreamin, for me I'm outta the desert shortly with a pocket full 'o' cash (not quite a bucket full); some bloody brilliant ATC experience I never would have got in Oz (I don't take sick leave here cuz I'm worried I'll miss something)
Not having to go back to AsA ...priceless :}


Back to thread topic, college when you do get through doesn't prepare you for unit sim and the unit sim doesn't prepare you for final field.
Having said that I had it much easier 15 years ago than the current crop of guys & gals. We were looked after by AsA with accomodation and expenses paid for on top of our wages, decent ratio of 2 students to 1 instructor in the sim and no bond after rating.

Wow! This is an amazing forum, it's taken me a week to read it!!

I'm really keen to get into atc but I'm scared by sum of the things said, like this one ---

OJTIs & Checkies don't give a toss, and if you are not 110% safe, you won't get up.

Wots ojti an checkies? And wot makes someone safe or unsafe?

Tx!

MS

OJTI= on the job training instructor
Checkie= controller assigned the task of performance assessment of other controllers. Initial location-specific 'rating' or endorsement, ongoing annual re-validation etc. ie. the person who says whether or not you will clear the final hurdle and be an ATC.
Safe/unsafe= subjective decision of those who report on your performance (OJTIs, checkies) based on objective tools. ie. can you do the job in all circumstances.

OJTI = On the Job Training Instructor

checkie = check controller (they're the ones who assess your performance & say "yes" or "no").

The "not giving a toss" was with respect to the shortage of controllers. If a trainee isn't up to doing the job they will not pass not matter how desperate the organisation's need.

"safe" vs "unsafe" - making separation happen as opposed to letting it happen. Every time.

Absolute incompetence :ok:

Blippy, the sector/aisle you are sent to is not your decision. Don't forget there is aisle 3 in Melb and Bris. Don't be scared off by all of the negativity. I have had nothing but good experiences in the field so far. Training is excellent in my group. Can't speak for the other groups but I know West Procedural is excellent also.
Cheers

Now I've started reading I can't stop.....

Aisle 3 - is this inside speak for Enroute? :confused:

AVV,

If you are not in aisle 3 in ML (and it sounds like you may not be), I would suggest that you may not be in the best position to talk about the goings-on in our part of the world. If you go back 10 trainees in our aisle, you would be going back 2 years at least - in that time, there have been less than a handful fail, including one who 'self-scrubbed' the morning of his check. Those who passed include two ab-initios who passed on what is still one of the hardest groups in the centre (if not the entire country!) and is now only taking an ab-initito again because they can't get people from other groups on transfer and are desperately short, ie really should be for experienced controllers only! All indications are he will get through fine, so just where is this mis-placed aversion to aisle 3 coming from?

I also take issue with your comment on fear - no checkie or line manager that I have come across (and I have had some doozies!) has ever torn anyone apart because they smelt fear. Everyone is intimidated by checks and the checkies know this - it's the nature of the job but I have never seen anyone torn apart because they were nervous about the check or doing the job by themselves afterwards. When I got my first aisle 3 rating, I found the checkie paid a bit more attention to me than normal but my confidence needed it and it was in no way a bad or intimidating thing - it was reassuring that help was there if I needed it. Anyone looking at coming to AsA does NOT need to worry about checkies or line managers smelling fear and using it against you (Line managers will try and screw for all you are worth but that's just the way with AsA these days!)

Finally to suggest that aisle 3 is not supportive, accepting or encouraging of trainees is flat out ridiculous. Just what are you basing that on? Anyone sent to West P, West R or Bight, can expect training as good as anywhere else in either centre. When I was training, I got chucked back in the sim just before my check because all I had seen was Runway 21 at PH - Runway 03 had entirely different air routes and conflicts and I needed some refreshing before my check. To make an assertion like that belittles the great work that those of us who train in that aisle do so please provide some sort of justification for that remark.

To those coming, please don't be put off by AVV's comments; they are just not the case at all! The training will be tough but your training officers and line managers will do everything they can to help you. The checkies (especially in aisle 3!) are brilliant and are always available to provide advice to help you through. There are other things which may put you off of joining but don't let AVV's comments be the reason.

Is aisle 3 west radar?

I thought that was right down the end of the centre?

West radar is in aisle 3 along with the procedural sectors over the gafa & Bight. And yes, it is right down the end ;)

Why does everyone care so much about the pass/failure rates? If you are wanting to become an ATC or training at the moment, a 100% pass rate doesn't mean that YOU will rate in the field. Put in the hard work, do well and good things will happen. Checkies don't fail people because they don't like the look of them. It's in every ones best interest that more people make it to the field and rate. Saying that, the standard still has to maintained that you are safe.

Wish I'd failed one who made it to ALM! Very poor decision on my part....

Blippy, it's not so simple - sectors change, sectors have physically moved from Perth to Melbourne, procedures change.

Unless a trainee is absolutely appalling they generally get a second go on another sector.

I'm sure those stats are collected by someone but aren't made generally available. That said it would be possible for someone with a bit of time on their hands to come up with a reasonable estimate.

adc, it's been 20 years for me but I remember being concerned about the pass rate way back when.

I do agree that checkies aren't out to fail trainees because they feel like it, but they will maintain the standard.

well ive seen it happen more than once

Blippy, further to le Pingouin's reply, the sample size is also too small. For example, in the last 5 years, West Radar has a 67% pass rate, but thats 2 out of 3 people. If one more person has passed it would be 100%, if one more person had not it would be 33%.

If one group has a 100% pass rate and another has 33% it's easy to conclude one group is better at training than the other. Easy, but very wrong.

(Only 20% of people understand statistics, but 80% of people think they are in the 20%:))

You will never be canned on one person's opinion, or one check run, or on your first 'final check'. Groups have more than one check controller (they check each other), and you will have reports from a number of training officers aver a period of time. As often as not thee final trigger is lack of progress/improvement over time. If your training officer thinks you need a bit more time you will get it. If the consensus is that you are not getting better over time, you won't.

Having said that, any group of people will have it's share of @rseholes, occasionally in positions of authority. It also true however that occasionally people who cannot do the job are convinced they can.

Finally, never put too much into any one opinion or story (above included), most people are individuals, and your experience may vary. Good luck:ok:.

I thought there was about 5 aisles! :)

Guess thats why I am in a tower haha

3 aisles, 6 rows :)

Ah ok I was thinking rows rather than aisles. All makes sense now :ok:

I knew the one end was TMA and the other WA but I was a bit lost for a while hehe

Curious as to what experience you have that you can compare one group's workload with that of others in the centre (if not the entire country)?

How many enroute radar, enroute procedural, TCUs, radar/non-radar Towers have you worked?

I've worked a good mix of enroute sectors, but Approach was another step up entirely.

hey everyone :)

i'm 19 and currently doing the course, 2 weeks in!

if anyone has any questions, email me at [email protected] because i don't check the forum much

thanks!

Started 2 weeks ago, ATC37 enroute with 12 people and ATC41 tower with 8. Together at the moment but we're splitting up after the theory phase.

We've been told that there are about 120 trainees at any one time at the academy. Also been told that courses start every 6 weeks.

"We've been told 120 trainees at any one time at the academy"

Somehow I doubt it.

We've been told many things over the years.

There is currently 59 enroute abintios at the college in various stages of training. 4 approaching final assessment, 8 early radar, 12 early non-radar, 12 about to do DTI assessment, 11 just starting in the sim and 12 just started the course.

Hi Cranky

Are there any on tower courses? if so how many? when are they finishing? and where are they going?

cheers mmhb

A course can contain 1 or 2 people. International recruits or conversion courses are run where they can fit I believe, so a course every 6 weeks might not be so much...

There are also 20 in the ab-initio Tower contingent loitering around.

We wouldn't mind knowing where we're going either...

Still a while away yet.
We have our Approach Control theory exam tomorrow, followed by starting HMI in the TMA sim.
Then there's only Radar Twr, Procedural Twr and GAAP(D) Twr to go...

Should be done by Christmas...

" International recruits or conversion courses are run where they can fit I believe"

Are they still hiring foreign atco's? Thought that scheme was over?

I got the "We have successfully completed your reference checks and will be making you a verbal offer of employment shortly." email on 22nd April and havent heard anything since. Is anybody else in the same boat?

I don't think it's HR. I think they can't figure out how to train people at the college - usual story too short staffed.

I'm at the same point in the recruitment process as you "Cptn Caveman". There was rumour months ago about a course on the 27th of September. If that course is going ahead then we should hear something in the next week or so being 3 months notice (that's if we're chosen this time round).

Has anyone on the current course heard anything about future dates of courses?

enemymig is about right with the tower numbers. i don't know how many conversions are going on at the moment. Still seem to be recruiting experienced people, mainly ex-ASA, for tower and approach. None for enroute for about 12 months. pass rate? how long is a piece of string? i've seen 2 from 8 and 10 from 12. course numbers for enroute abinitio are normally 8-12, conversion to tower and approach as they can be fitted in. Those who put in the work have a chance. as anyone who has been around for awhile knows, nothing is guaranteed in this job, we're all one stuff-up away from unemployment, those who don't put in the extra effort.....

how longs a piece of string??????


ahhhhhhhhhhhhh Ian

HR, known as P&C (people and Change) actually have the College under their purvey. The College (aka Learning Academy) have responsibility and accountability for the trainees until such time as they check out in the field.