PPL and ATCO Training?
 

Hey guys,

Just came back from my medical this morning and had a PPL medical alongside the CAA ATCO one. I knew that in the past, flight training was a part of the training process, but was unaware that this was still the case. Can anyone shed any light on this matter? Haven't found any mention of it on the NATS site, in the TATC contract or anywhere else!!!

Thanks for your help!

Si

Hi Simon

I an not sure for certain but I seem to remember someone mentioning that it is still included. I will find out sooner or later when I start in September but would be interested to know.

I think they used to give you 10hrs flying.

Q

NATS Flying training nowadays is only for those streamed to Airports (ie Aerodrome or Approach). If you are streamed Area (as is most likely!) then there isn't any flying training in the syllabus. However, if you are lucky enough to be streamed to Airports then you will get 15 hours at either Hurn, Wycombe or Manston. The flying is done between the end of the Basic Course and the start of your next course. This means that you lose a weeks holiday, but for 15 hours of free flying and additional ground school it's gotta be worth it!!
Regards ADIS

Ah Quincy, I may be bumping into you in the hallowed halls of the college soon then! I'm starting in September as well (was schedueled for June, but exams just get in the way of everything!) Cheers for the info

Si

Lucky enough to get aerodrome? I thought the salary was meant to be crap compared to area?

:)

Not crap.

And it depends, some aerodromes get the same as some radar units.

Ah right, I'm heading over to London for the selection tests next month. Aerodrome just seems a lot more appealing to me, nice to know that the pay isn't too bad.

EDIT: (That is, if I get through them :))

It's the same medical. In fact, the ATCO one is the Class A that you need to hold a CPL/ATPL, so it is higher than for a PPL. PPL doesn't include the cardio thingie.
Another freebie supplied by your ATC employer. Cool eh?

Cool indeed! Although I was slightly daunted at the prospect of being wired up.... thought I was about to sign on to the National Grid!!

Wexcan, Aerodrome seems more appealing to me too. Don't know why, just more attracted to it! Fingers crossed for you in your selection tests, good luck!

Si

Thanks for the good wishes. I suppose it's just the whole looking-at-planes-all-day bit that I like, I'd probably grow tired of it eventually. Call it my inner child. Or my inner spotter. :}

I'm already preparing for the tests - I'll be damned if I waste a flight from Dublin. Then again, I'm going for a few days so that I can say it was just an eventful holiday if things go pear shaped. The only test I'd say I'll really feel crappy coming out of would be the cube test. Matching and calculating are fine, just need to brush up a tiny bit on the mental arithmetic. Motivation, well I'd like to think I have that, and I'm poring over the info material and MATS Pt1 to soak up as much as I can.

Simon, I'll tell you why..... It's a proper job, not just a TCAS supplement that the area types do, while trying desperately to justify their salaries....

:E

As a matter of interest, what *is* the difference in salary? I'm surprised that Area gets more, considering how critical the aerodrome stages are and that, if my thinking is right, there's a lot more... thinking involved in gnd/twr/app?

If you get into the CATC how does the streaming process work?

Now now Gonzo, let's not get into an Aerodrome vs. Area B*tch fight. := They do one aspect of ATC and we do another... in fact, looking at all the wonderful weather around us today, I'd much rather be pushing aircraft around on the ground than dodging wx cells etc.

Anyway, everyone knows that us Heathrow types are the best :p

WexCan,

Area (and London airports) controllers can earn up to 50% more than most regional airport controllers.

As to the streaming process. You are told whether you'll go Area, Aerodrome (Tower) or Approach about half way through the basic course. These days the vast majority are streamed Area. How the decision is made as to who (if anyone) is streamed for Airports ... as a Trainee you'll never really know! None of my course could work it out.

Regards, ADIS

Strange, a company directing people towards higher paid jobs. I suppose if the demand is there... The money does seem good but it just seems less exciting. Pity you don't get a choice.

I have scary images of a NATS "Sorting Hat".... in a stylish hypnotic blend of yellow and blue swirls! Fingers crossed I'm streamed down the aerodrome route, have always desired to go down that branch of ATC! Would actually like to see the planes that I'm controlling :)

Si

Sorry to burst your bubble but I have to have two medicals (done at the same time admittedly). The ATCO is still a CAA Class 1 at the moment. The PPL requires a JAR Class 2. The two different regulatory bodies, CAA and JAR, do not accept each others standards.

The physical examination may only need to carried out once but you should get two pieces of paper, one for ATCO class 1 and the other for PPL JAR Class 2.

Yep, I already had a CAA/JAR Class 1 but I still had to have an ATCO class 1.

Gonzo, "cleared to land , cleared to land , cleared to land , cleared to land, etc"
How dull!
Most sectors at Swanwick handle over 60 aircraft an hour, whereas the biggest agreed landing rate i've seen at heathrow is 44 an hour, so maybe thats why we get paid the same.
I agree with Satan about the weather over the last few days, at least you can see it and can get aircraft who aren't through v1 to stop. Weather avoiding at ground speeds of over 400 knots gets a bit tasty, especially when most of the airlines don't like being outside controlled airspace.