Granny Smith.....

...you're right - The Dog had best watch his six before the "Backstabbers" really get to him.

Why don't people learn that you have just got to keep your gob shut for 12/18 months, get out of the college and validate BEFORE you get too clever.

The cynics might say that the Topic here was demonstrated BY Dog. Perhaps Dog should have a little bit more respect for those who can Immediately alter his career. Also, they will know somebody where you get posted!

Like it or not, this job is all about getting on with your colleagues and your face fitting. Dog; so far I'd call it Played One, Lost One.

Still, only thirty-odd years until you retire!

P.S. Granny, would Sunny South be nr Parley Cross??? (Or is that just your 'spies'?)

Oh how i miss that famous phrase, "clocks off" wish i could do it now.

I prefered the breakfast at college at around 10.30. Lovely, much better than the BAA canteen.

Tower Power...

<As we all well know, Gonzo and the easterlies desk>

Me and the easterlies desk? I was nowhere near it!

Gonz

bright-ling

My location is a closely guarded secret (and 'sunny south' covers a multitude of sins however, I do have spies everywhere! :) In actual fact who or where we are is pretty irrelevant (except for DoW of course). Obviously half the fun of this sort of thing is trying to work out who it is you're speaking to - you never know, maybe 'Bill Semple' IS Bill Semple. On second thoughts that's unlikely as this one seems to have a sense of humour! :)

cheers

ps anyone tell me how I attach one of those really funny (sic) signature things?

Granny......

you're right - it adds to the fun not knowing if Bill Semple is the real thing or not! (Me thinks not in this instance!)

I wasn't playing detective, just having some fun!

BTW, you're right - DoW is the only person who should be scared. When will people ever learn!

Cheers

Well, to throw in my two penneth for what it's worth. I am also on the next 6 week OJT just got to battle my way through mind numbing LVP's first. Remember those numbers ! I was speaking to one of the instructors on the sims today and he was saying how most of them hate summatives as they have to turn from friendlies into "Judge and executioner" but I guess it has to be done. Personally, although I probably want to go area I can't wait to get out there and see how it really works without that "pause clocks" safety net and as far as I am aware all my colleagues share my enthusiasm. As for the standard of students I don't see anybody getting an easy ride in fact having just lost 7 on the cross runway phase including three very marginals I would suggest the opposite is true. Within the environment at CATC the instructors do their best for us, I am sure none of them want to see us fail, and in return we do the same. The proof of the pudding etc. will be apparent by christmas. Let us know if this bunch of "Six weekers" was up to scratch, Cheers Vlad

[This message has been edited by Vlad the Impaler (edited 25 August 2000).]

Dog on Wheels,
I know EXACTLY who you are, looked back through your other postings and recognised a conversation !

The question I have to ask myself is do we really care who you are?? *laughs*.

Halo....Here here!!

I don't know. This has been a very funny thread - watching people drop themselves in it and then try and dig their way out.

Very entertaining! Come on studes, keep it going!

[This message has been edited by Bright-Ling (edited 27 August 2000).]

Very wise old Chinaman say...

...when find self in deep hole smelling of doo doo ...stop digging!

Let's hope this isn't going to be the way that these people act when they come for live training . We've all seen this before - the inability to put their hands up and say "I f****d up".

Generic statements about 6 w""kers are very unfair to the people involved.some are very inteligent , highly qualified people,However they should not have been placed in the position of having to try to qualify for a profession for which they are totaly unsuitable.The selection procedure seems to ignore any interest in,or knowedge of, aviation in general,Recent Questions include "Is that a 747,it seems to have 4 engines"." Why can't I launch him immediatly behind the ATP"( EA145 ) they both have two engines"

Dog, didn't realise ALL your posts have gone.

Bad show old chap.

CATC instructors : Highly professional IMHO.

The college system is very different from the units.At TC you get 2 or 3 mentors throughout your training. This gives you a chance to develop a working relationship more easily than at the college.

Advice to U/Ts : show some enthusiasm, because when you reach the inevitable learning plateau during your 300+ hours of training it is this that will get you some "slack" from your mentors. I have seen many trainees who had the talent to make it, but when the going got tough they didn't appear to be motivated enough. A 100 hour radar check-out that is borderline, can be revcovered with a good oral check-out.

Read the books, look keen, ask questions ................ and do the watch scoop-athons !

INS

Now now ladies !!

Some of this thread has got a little difficult to follow since many posts have been edited or removed so removing the references which are needed to see the sides of the argument.

For starters, Granny Smith, the 'back stabbing bastards' quote did NOT originate from Dog on Wheels. He was quoting a previous post from another PPRuNer which was subsequently edited. Now you can say that he perhaps needs to tidy up his quotation skills so we are all clear who has said what, but to put over veiled threats which imply that the CATC instructors would find him and get him is totally unprofessional and indeed does the guys at CATC a great diservice. All you did was start a feeding frenzy by other PPRuNers on a misquoted individual, who no doubt felt threatened and hence has effectively withdrawn from PPRuNe.

So, for all here on PPRuNe, as in RT, think before you transmit please. Danny's lawyers have more than enough business to cope with without getting into intimidation, slander, and other such things.

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PPRuNe Radar
ATC Forum Moderator
[email protected]

PPRuNe Radar.....

...I agree with waht you have said, and now feel (slightly) sorry for DoW's.

However, should you not develop a way of not allowing people to either delete their posts or edit them after a set period of time - or after when a subsequent post is made. The edit facility is excellent, but most people use it within a few minutes of posting, do they not??? (Probably for typing or grammatic errors).

This might end the confusion and prevents 'poor' people getting the blame.

Just a thought. What do you think ?

I may seem daft, but is this serious about the talent shown by our cadets.

When I was a lad, all I ever wanted to be was an ATCO and not a pilot. Money was never an issue. If recruits think that this career is an easy ride, it must come as one hell of a shock to them when they go 'live'.

So who is recruiting them and just what are they being told prior to taking this 'career for life' job. Is this the only way we can recruit, offer good salaries, but omit to tell the story called reality. Would the stress of a massive increase in workload year on year distract those being lured by money?

I still love the job, but the job is begining to take its toll on me!

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[This message has been edited by OrsonCart (edited 02 September 2000).]

OK pigeons here comes the cat.

I've recently finished a tour teaching at the RAF Central Air Traffic Control School.

If you are still reading after the last sentence then you will find out that during the 4 years I was there I was asked to give a presentation to CATC on the way we have separate ground instructors and radar instructors and the benefits therein. During the battle/presentation I mentioned that the quality of student we get has been declining over the 4 years I served at Shawbury and that we get either failed pilots or NATS rejects. I was surprised by the audience reaction to hear that the CATC instructors thought that they were getting the RAFs rejects.

Official or Unofficial, like it or not, There is a perception among many instructors, both military and civil, that the quality of raw student has declined.

To counter this perception at CATCS I had to incorporate into the existing lessons much of the background knowledge that we previously expected the candidate to know through their interest in aviation.

We even initiated a half-day visit to the museum at Cosford so that we could point out the various relevant bits of a jet. (While not on the syllabus it was interesting to note that many of these young RAF Officers couldn't tell a Spitfire from a Hurricane!)

Many more people seem to get through our (RAF) course with the help of extra training. In some cases, people have been taught to pass the course exercises rather than had their natural talent developed and consequently they struggle when they go live. (after only 14 and a half weeks of ATC training!!)

Divergance from thread on "standard of trainees".

Agree with identnospeed (previous thread)- enthusiasm on the part of the u/t should be almost a pre-requisite. However there is a limit to what they should have to do to demonstrate their keenness. Several of my acquaintances are aware of dubious, verging on illegal practices surrounding 6-weekers. CATC are also aware but seem to have turned a blind eye. Unwilling to go into detail, I wonder if any ex 6-weekers would care to comment on their experiences, or maybe some of the fully valid among you have first hand experience. And if you are a CATC person who has an inkling of what I might be talking about, why do you not address the issue?

Radar

whooaa there dobbin! methinks I'm being a flamed unfairly here.

If you look back at my posts - I've just done so myself - you'll see that I have been supportive of both instructors and students at CATC. Yes I know DoW didn't originate the "back stabbing bastards" comment however unlike Tower Power he or she identified themselves as a student ATCO and agreed with the comment. It is difficult to tell that now as both seem to have taken the easy way out and have either removed or changed their postings (perhaps there should be a time limit on this facility?). If you feel strongly enough to post why not have the courage to stand by your words?

I disagree completely that I 'put over veiled threats ... etc' That is simply not true. However quite seriously there are instructors at CATC who were very pissed off at that comment - bad enough if it came from a (somewhat arrogant) valid ATCO but the fact that it came from a Student was highly offensive. I would not seriously suggest that any CATC instructor would try to fail anyone because of what they've said on PPRuNe - sorry this just ain't that important! For a start the system, as it has been explained to me, would not allow it as there are far too many checks within it to avoid that very possibility.

You'll note that no-one disagreed with my comments that DoW should wind his/her neck in.

Now if DoW has gone off in the huff then I'm sorry BUT maybe they (and other Student ATCOs reading but not posting) will have learned a thing or two. Come back Dog all is forgiven. We seem to have lost the point here - this thread has been very funny and enjoyable - it's only when people have taken it too seriously that we've gone slightly awry. C'mon this is ATC - if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined! :)