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Oh dear, oh dear! Threre are some awfully muddled folk on this thread. As has been said earlier, at night you MUST fly under the Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) - you MUST also do this by day in Instrument Met Conditions (IMC). You may only fly under the Visual Flight Rules (VFR) in Visual Met Conditions (VMC), but in the UK, although you may be in VMC at night you MUST fly IFR.
In a control zone, and ONLY in a control zone, a pilot who cannot comply with the Instrument Rules for a control zone may be issueed with a Special VFR clearance in order to leave the zone. This will apply to Class A Control Zones at all times and other Class Zones at night. To repeat, a Special VFR clearance can only be issued for flight in a control zone not an area, TMA, airway or any other controlled or uncontrolled airspace. There are no Special VFR rules as such - you don't even have to carry radio! |
Warped Factor
I didn't think I was confused about this until I read what others thought! In my example, I was refering to a non IR pilot, with night rating, being outside a CTR flying at night. He will be flying in VMC (because he has too) but will be IFR (as Lew Ton says). The difference between his IFR and that of an IR rated pilot is that an IR rated pilot can be in any met conditions or airspace whereas he must be VMC and outside a Class D CTR to be within the limitations of his license. DB6 If a pilot leaves a Class D CTR SVFR at night, we (ATC) are obliged to ask his intentions on leaving. Will he remain clear of controlled airspace (he'll still be IFR) or request an IFR join to Class A, B or E airspace? If this pilot does not have an IR they must remain outside all of the above classes of airspace (except they can rejoin a Class D CTR SVFR). Prepares to be contradicted... |
Cossack, now we're getting to the nub of it. To go back to my original posting, does this then mean that a PPL (without IR) cannot go through class E airspace at night - which is how I understand things - and so can only transit the Scottish TMA between Edinburgh and Glasgow CTRs by avoiding all the class E, either by nipping under it (Bookworm what exemption do you mean; if it's the SVFR exemption from the 1500 ft rule I'm aware of it but we're not on an SVFR clearance so that wouldn't apply. If it's another exemption please elucidate) or by climbing to 6000 ft and going over it to get into the class D on an SVFR clearance. It just seems absurd that you're being pushed below 2500 ft or above 6000 ft amongst all the heavies to get through legally, see what I mean ? Or am I missing something ?
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DB6
PPL (no IR) CANNOT go through Class E at night. Nor can he climb above 6000 in the Scottish TMA Class D because it isn't a Control Zone (CTR) but Class D TMA. South of the border, TMA tends to be Class A therefore, no IR, no entry. The Glasgow and Edinburgh CTRs are Class D and extend from the surface to 6000. The Scottish TMA is Class D and extends from 6000 to FL245 (if I remember correctly - no map in front of me!). Since the TMA is not notified as a CTR, no SVFR is allowed. If your PPL wanted to go from Dundee to say Carlisle at night he could either: a) request to transit either the Edinburgh or Glasgow CTR SVFR, then stay below the Class E once through; b) go between the two via Cumbernauld but stay below the Class E (ie below 2500); or c) go east of Edinburgh via North Berwick and stay outwith the lateral limits of controlled airspace of any class up to FL245. I hope thats clear. Class E airspace really is a waste of time - no requirement for VFR by day to contact ATC and therefore it isn't a known traffic environment and so there's less protection for IFR flight in this airspace, especially with all the military activity in that part of the world. When I was at EDI we tried for years to upgrade the Class E to D and raise the base but nothing ever happened. |
Cossack, thanks - that's what I had suspected (feared). What a pain up the arse. Class E really does seem to be a waste of space.
Cheers DB6 |
DB6
If the clouds a bit low I'd use a). If you take option b) watch out for the masts at Shotts!!! If it were me flying, I'd take c) and go up as high as I could to get over the river but still give EDI a courtesy call to let them know I'm there, since I'd be passing through 24 final approach at about 15-20 miles! All the best |
Thanks again Cossack. It's more for the teaching aspect, so that I'm telling people the right thing; as you can see it's a subject fraught with misconceptions. I could always go IFR myself but I must admit to being a bit lazy so probably would do one of the above instead. Anyway, hopefully you won't get too many Tayside aircraft getting it wrong now (unless it's me making a hash of things).
Cheers DB6 |
Bookworm what exemption do you mean; if it's the SVFR exemption from the 1500 ft rule I'm aware of it but we're not on an SVFR clearance so that wouldn't apply. If it's another exemption please elucidate
DB6 Sorry for the lack of clarity. Rule 29. When flying IFR (which is what you must do outside controlled airspace at night) you must be 1000 ft above the highest fixed obstacle within 5 nm unless: ...[3 other exemptions] at an altitude not exceeding 3000 ft amsl, clear of cloud and in sight of the surface. You originally said "IFR in this context simply means staying above MSA" and I was just pointing out that you don't have to be above MSA as long as you're clear of cloud and in sight of the surface. It doesn't hurt to be above MSA though! |
Well I'll be buggered. Thanks very much, Bookworm. I was not aware of that exemption at all but it does make things a lot simpler. So we can whizz through underneath the TMA at a sensible height without clipping the bottom of the TMA after all.
Cheers DB6 |
Quick note to DB6 and others.......
If/when you fly near the Glasgow/Edinburgh areas (notice; not just the control zones) please give us a call. Not only may there be bigjets in your area but also police helicopters, local club a/c etc which can often be out on specific details, airtests etc. I won't make you do anything you don't want to do and i may be able to give you pertinent info on that helicopter that is about to try and imitate a ballistic missile (yeah, i know, but there is no telling what a chopper driver will try and do!!) in your 12 o'clock at two miles. The most i'll ask you to do is to bung on a squawk and if you're low level confirm that you are maintaining your own terrain sep (it gets it on the tapes!!). I do'nt know about all the tech talk above but the simple solution is ; go Ifr, talk to us, we'll help you!. |
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