Originally Posted by chevvron
(Post 9527579)
Gatwick is not an easy place to validate; we had at least 6 from Farnborough who went there and I believe only 2 managed to qualify. Certainly my personal feeling is someone from Oxford or Bournemouth would find it a bit of a struggle as the traffic is more IFR biased than the places they've come from ie very few VFR arrivals/departures at Gatwick.
For instance, in NATS days, I've been on the flight deck of a 737 landing on easterlies and at 4 miles with one lander ahead just vacating, they've still got 2 departures away before giving us landing clearance. Do they do that nowadays? Still happens. A good headwind would be required. |
Why wouldn't an experienced ATCO from Oxford or Bournemouth validate?! Plenty of ab-initios manage it with zero experience!
Classic pretentious attitude from the OAPs on this forum. |
In my experience in air traffic I have seen folk of high and low abilities (out of the college and from other units) validate at traditionally difficult places such as Heathrow and Gatwick easily and struggle at traditionally quieter units (won't specify, don't want to offend). I personally think that the quality of OJTIs matter more towards validation than raw ability. If someone reasonably competent from Oxford or other not 'busy IFR big jet' units go to Gatwick then I think a few good OJTIs should validate them. Not a view shared by everyone I'm sure, and I stand ready to get slammed by someone saying I haven't worked at a top 2 in Britain unit therefore I don't know 😋
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Originally Posted by Hootin an a roarin
(Post 9527670)
Know Edinburgh well, but it's Tower GM is a bit of a tool and his Engineering predecessor was an even bigger one
They were/are both engineers but you have it the wrong way around! The "tool" reference remains I'm afraid ( to both). |
It seems to me that the incestuous management team selection practices are coming home to roost at NATS. It also doesn't help when a lot of 'managers' are used to giving orders and struggle to get their heads around the idea that their colleagues like to be treated as people not machines.
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Originally Posted by ATCO Fred
(Post 9528015)
We aim to issue IFR clearances at 4nm but no later than 2. I'm sure your quote is somewhat sensationalist and well before the days of SMS lead decision making. :ok:
Fred |
It doesn't help that some NATS managers are sent on a course at Henley College where they seem to teach them to be deliberately conforntational.(NB I did say 'seem')
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<<We aim to issue IFR clearances at 4nm but no later than 2>>
Do you mean landing clearance? |
Originally Posted by EastofKoksy
(Post 9760572)
It seems to me that the incestuous management team selection practices are coming home to roost at NATS. It also doesn't help when a lot of 'managers' are used to giving orders and struggle to get their heads around the idea that their colleagues like to be treated as people not machines.
It was pretty obvious the centres were just whitewash, going through the motions and that the decision was made before the assessment started; needless to say I was never selected as I got the label 'not a people person' on my records from somewhere, (never did figure out who or why). |
Originally Posted by chevvron
(Post 9760858)
...I got the label 'not a people person' on my records from somewhere, (never did figure out who or why).
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In an interview, whenever asked the inevitable 'What is your worst trait?', reply 'I don't suffer fools very well'. They are never sure how to take that. Didn't seem to do me any harm. :)
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Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR
(Post 9760769)
<<We aim to issue IFR clearances at 4nm but no later than 2>>
Do you mean landing clearance? Keep up at the back !! |
Originally Posted by Del Prado
(Post 9760630)
That wouldn't work at a busy airfield. That's not even what Gatwick aims for in LVPs!
Always wise when operating with types of significantly different speeds. |
Originally Posted by ATCO Fred
(Post 9762150)
Just following the broader guidance contained with 493 Section 3 Chapter 2 Para 10.1.
Always wise when operating with types of significantly different speeds. |
Originally Posted by Gonzo
(Post 9762155)
Isn't that referring to Approach Control passing landing clearances though? Or am I missing something?
Hope that helps but things into context. Fred |
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