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-   -   Qatar (Doha) ATC for new Airport (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/509981-qatar-doha-atc-new-airport.html)

RadarMaestro 11th Mar 2013 18:20

Qatar (Doha) ATC for new Airport
 
Hi guyz. With Qatar's new airport almost ready for action, what is the plan there. Would appreciate if insiders can share their ideas.

- Is Serco taking the contract???
- How many ATC's do they need?
- How many ATC's is starting within the nex few months?
- Why is there no big fuss about Doha being the nex busiest airport in Middle East?
- If there's a shortage,Why isn't the world applying there all at the same time?
- Who gonna work old airport and who's gonna work at new airport.
- What is current staff situation?
- What is roster cycle like at the moment and will it change?
- How much truth is in the EXIT VISA story?
- Cos why should you get permission to take a break away from Home/Work.
- If EXIT VISA is true, are they going to change it anytime soon for ATC staff?
- What package is being offerred to newcomers?
- Do you see Doha work complexity on Approach getting easier once new airport open or will situation remain the same.
- What is city life like, for singles and families?
- Last, hows the traffic to airport from the Villa neighbourhoods.

Just curious about what lays ahead at Doha, so everyone who is interested in Middle East can maybe choose Doha as an alternative to Dubai.

Jof_1999 11th Mar 2013 19:13

I dont know anything about who is going to run things but the exit visa was definately true a few years ago. My family lived there and my brother had some real trouble getting out from a teaching job. When he eventually got out he just never went back. Things may have changed but that was 5 or 6 years ago so not the too distant past.

RadarMaestro 12th Mar 2013 16:58

Very well explained Shue.

In UAE, talks go around that Serco is presently trying to get people for Doha.
If thats the case, then I suppose things will surely get better for you guys. Once all the bodies validate, who knows, maybe they can consider a MMAANNSOOO like Abu Dhabi and Dubai. 4 Full days off is a big relief for most of the guys in UAE, some even go on Diving breaks, quick Nile river cruise, Sham al Sheihk, abroad, just to recharge before the next cycle.

Hope all goes well and that Doha turns out to be the next big attraction for ATC's from all over.

:ok::ok::ok:

Robor66 17th Mar 2013 12:32

Doha ATC
 
Hi Radar Maestro,To answer a few of your q's........
1. Nobody knows but rumours are around.?!
2. Always need staff.......have never had enough, and prob never will......8hr shifts, working 3 holds ,sequencing/ vectoring, deps, and overflights thrown in for good measure......on your own at times....takes it toll!
3. 1 as far as we are aware for radar. Making a total of 15 hopefully 3 on each watch, working MANSO........1 on leave, leaves 2 at any time( assuming no sickness.!?) to work at times the busiest app/area unit in the gulf( quantified by the fact that its all done by app......no area guys to help out sequence/hold and space.)
4. Unlikely to change as the idea of sleep and whole 3 days off.....seems to be far to much.
5. Exit visa required for any time out of the country..........v v unlikely to change.
6.City life is ok.......very little to do thou..!
7. Package can be PM'd but in short.......long hrs, short staff, no priv.med, no loss of licence, minimal school fees......enough to maybe cover 1 child in primary!, accom supplied.
8. Unlikely to get less complex till/if staffing improves.....and more likely to be more complex as traffic will increase but staff / airspace will remain the same!
And lastly.......traffic is horrendous ........looking at between 45mins to an hr each way on a week day!
Not sure why there are not more people applying.......?!!! I'll let you make up your own mind on that one......hope this helps!

LoserGill 18th Mar 2013 21:29

Robor, I appreciate your and Shue's posts about life and work in Doha. Hopefully Serco will improve your situations, the Approach team certainly has more than their share of work to deal with and the Tower surely is quite busy with their own set of issues.

My uncle and aunt spent 20 years in Saudi Arabia from 1968 to 1988; far less developed times and location in terms of technology and social media to keep in touch with families, but they managed, they all did, in fact I think they thrived with lifelong friendships. They also came out of there with financial stability for the rest of their lives.
Have times changed that much that people don't visit friends anymore? Have all the X-box, PS3, Facebook and the like driven people further apart than before? Instead of spending time with each other, it seems that families live in an electronic bubble these days.

I have lived in cities with populations from 25,000 to over 3,000,000. The smallest ones offered closer community feel and even though they had very little man-made attractions or malls, their natural locations gave us more things to do and places to hike to than a hundred Disneylands could.
I guess the bottom line is that it is not that bad, after all, you folks didn't leave two weeks after arrival, the salary sets up your family's security when all is done.

I would not mind going there at all, the long term advantages far outweigh the short term annoyances, in my opinion.

LoserGill 19th Mar 2013 19:21

No, no intel. Just hoping the best for you folks, based on our communication a month ago where you expressed that they would be welcome.

I'm sure everyone was "hot" there! My uncle has told me how he burned his hand more than once on the car door handle.
From the opposite end here, I have experienced -48C and have made the mistake of holding the car key in my mouth where they promptly froze to my lips. Painful!!!!!

CuitoCuanavale 19th Mar 2013 19:42


The package at Doha is an everevolving dynamic, as is Qatar itself. Frustrations exist, but I dare say, thatwill be experienced by anyone under the title expat in any part of the world.

The package in Doha is alwaysimproving and is now competitive and will continue to improve. SERCO islong-standing in its history of service delivery and naturally people willdefault to them as a benchmark…absolutely nothing wrong with that…perfectlynormal. However, before making any move to Qatar ensure you are well informedon exactly what you are committing to.

This may sound like I am statingthe obvious…however I have sooo many times over the years witnessed adults,carried by the utopia of getting a Job Offer, sign on the proverbial dottedline… arrive happy and breathless in the country and as soon as the honeymoonof arriving in a new country loses its veneer…launch into diatribe afterdiatribe about how awful the working conditions are, how bad the salary is, howbad the accommodation is, how awful the shifts are … ad-infinitum… ALL…withoutexception, information that was front and center for them to garner in order tobase a decision on.

Simply put, and this I wouldimagine is generic in its application, there are 3 main characteristics youshould have before even thinking of coming to the Middle East…let alone Qatar;

1) Maturity…obviousI know, but oooh boy does this one manifest itself as controversial on aregular basis.

2) Adaptability.Simply stated…a good attitude.

3) SelfDiscipline.

Skill attestation is part of theapplication process.

No working environment in theworld is perfect. Subjectivity will never allow that to happen…if in doubt;have a chat to the likes of Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Richard Branson etc, etc…

As a controller in Doha you willbe challenged on many levels, of that I can assure you. It is a country in astate of self discovery and world recognition as it takes its place on theeconomical stage as a key player and policy maker.

LoserGill 19th Mar 2013 20:25

Good to hear from you again Mr S, your points are very well stated.

Some things one cannot know in advance, specifically housing. This may be subjective as comfort levels vary with people. The expectation should be comfortable, not palaces with servants nor hovels with rats.

CuitoCuanavale 19th Mar 2013 22:04

Indeed LoserGill - goes without saying.

The current status quo of staff, experiencing the rapid growth of the national carrier, as well as the opening and deregulation of previously circumvented markets, daily face quite a big-ask...and to date have not been found wanting.

As in any workplace, there is a broad gambit of personalities and cultures - and based on the task they face every time they come on shift is testimony to their abilities.

The somewhat loose attention to objectivity in representing the work environment and associated remuneration is, among certain members...rather questionable and does a disservice to those that recognize the transition and continuous improvement (admittedly at times slow)...but improvement none-the-less.

cleard4tkof 20th Mar 2013 03:57

Robor66, good feedback on Radarmaestro's questions.

1. When is the Big shift to the new Airport taking place? (Opening date for new Airport)
2. Will it be dual RWY operation or just one?
3. If just single RWY OPS, when will Dual RWY OPS be implemented?
4. Just for curiosity...., the current ATCO's, How many years service do you guys already have at Doha? (If longer than 5 years, then i recon that things cant be that unpleasant in Qatar, I might be wrong)
6. With SERCO as a possible ANS provider, my guess is that Doha will fill up quickly and the current work situation might just disappear eventually.
7. If SERCO take over, are you all shifting over to SERCO or will you have a choice to remain with the QCAA.

Robor66 20th Mar 2013 07:05

Hi Cleard4tkof,Thanks......and to answer briefly,
Scheduled to open on the 1st ( softly) with cargo flights and a few others.
Single rwy operation, with a view to full transition by the end of the year.
Most of the expats here have less than 3 years time and the stalwarts ( no offence guys!) anywhere btwn 5 and 15yrs.
It's not for everybody.......and you will always get the ones who love it, and the ones who put up with it!
We have no idea whether Serco will be involved......but I dare say if they are, then it will only be in a recruitment capacity and you will still be employed by the QCAA.
I would like to add though that although things are FAR from perfect ..... as Cuitocuanavale put it, things have improved albeit v slowly......and with hopefully the addition of more staff it will get better.
There are far worse places to work.....believe me I've been there....!

baggie boy 23rd Mar 2013 13:22

Help Please?
 
Hi

does anybody out there have any contact details to send my C.V details to ? I have 7 years tower and Approach experience , although APP and not APS . I am an OJTI and Met qualified and have a years international experience .

My family and I would love to work in Doha and just wondered if anybody could offer any help . I seem to get knocked back with Serco and GAL seem to just employ each others mates in my experience .

thanks

rocky01 28th Mar 2013 10:16

Hi,

By any chance are they looking for a TWR ADI, (30 years experience ex APP,APS), OJTI, UCE...? Where do I send my CV?

Thanks all,

left290 28th Mar 2013 10:25

Check your PM

atcoexpert 31st Mar 2013 13:03

Contact for Doha ATC
 
Would be interested in the contact details as well.

Where do I send my CV for a possible job in Doha.

Over 20 years of experience, TWR ADV/ADI, RADAR APS, OJTI, EXAMINER, Supervisor, TRM facilitator, HF instructor.

Thanks

Argonautist 13th Apr 2013 19:41

Contact for DOHA
 
Hi, has anyone had any sucess for finding contact details for recruitment in Doha?

Ive got 11 years ATC experience. 17 years total airport experience.

qsyenroute 17th Apr 2013 13:41

"Hopefully Serco will improve your situations,"

Yeah right.........and you live on what planet?

ATLATC 19th Apr 2013 15:37

Hello,

After 25 years with the FAA, I'm ready for a new adventure.

Can anyone provide contact info for Doha ATC?

Thanks!

Out The Gap 7th Jun 2013 13:09

The wait continues... :rolleyes:

Its over two months now since the white elephant, that is NDIA, was last meant to open on April Fool's Day... does anyone else have any more news/rumours?

Neptune262 6th Jul 2013 08:41

ATC Contact
 
Hi,

Can anyone working in Doha presently (and not on summer break :ok:) please send me a pm?

Thanks

dazed&glazed 12th Oct 2013 19:29

Doha 2013 recruitment
 
Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to answer a few questions I have regarding Doha ATC (I have an assessment shortly)?

I have obtained most of the common facts but can't seem to find an answer to a few niggling ones I have so here goes

1- what is the average pass rate for people trying to validate? From what I've seen it looks high up the difficulty scale so would be interested to know?

2- what will happen to staff when they have finished transitioning the two airports? Is there potential to have surplus atco resource resulting in contract termination?

3- accommodation. How far is the accom from work where they put you up and how many rooms does it have and it's furnished status

4- training accom. I believe that when training you have to pay for your own accom. Is there a standard place where everyone stays and if so what is the approx cost?

5- training standards. What is the atmosphere like between Ojtis and trainees? In my experience this is a huge factor in successful validation and is it true that it is 4 a months training cutoff? How many hours training could one expect?

6- is there a offshore fund (to compensate for no pension) and is there a golden goodbye scheme like they had in Dubai ( after five years service you get a lump sum)

Hugely grateful for any time spent replying to this!

Plazbot 12th Oct 2013 19:35

They are advertising for instructors too. Anyone know the package detail?

CuitoCuanavale 12th Oct 2013 21:17

Dazed&Glazed;

Ref package, applicable to both Instructors and Controllers do an archive search ... comprehensive and articulate information available.

1) Assessments are dynamic, but realistic, promulgated to guage if you are suitable to be trained on a discipline - not to embarrass or shock you and it is conducted with that in mind. Pass rates are irrelevant, but as a grab I would place it at about 85 to 90%

2) Managements decision on placement and projected surplus.

3) Again - an unknown, but generally they do try and keep you if not close, then at least closely located to a main road.

4) You need to clarify that with your recruiter or whoever you are currently in communication with...any answer on this forum is tantamount to speculation.

5) Standards are high as Doha is a rapidly bulging hub and mutual respect exists between all professionals. As a footnote - without being patronizing, how you integrate with your Instructots / future colleagues rests in its entirety with YOU ... if you are a serial Whinger and Whiner ...well what can I tell you?? There will be obstacles and times when your frustration seems like an everest ... this where your character takes centre stage. Remember this, nobody here doesnt want you here ... we all want extra staff so by default we do want you and your skill and experience...its up to you how you deliver yourself as a person and your skill as a professional.

6) Just a gratuity...but a good one. Do the archive search.

All the best for the assessment - Ciao.

dazed&glazed 13th Oct 2013 07:35

Thanks for the reply much appreciated

dazed&glazed 13th Oct 2013 21:05

Again thanks for the reply... But could I trouble you for a few more bits...coming from someone who has worked at doha a while your 'gut feeling' might be worth it's weight....

In regards to staffing do you think there will be a surplus of staff that might be let go once the airport transition is complete?

I have tried but can't find anything on the gratuity payments, if you could point me in the right direction that would be great!

CuitoCuanavale 13th Oct 2013 22:02

Dazed&Glazed;

Fair-do's...second part of your question first:-

Gratuity is one months Salary for every year worked up to a maximum of 10 yrs based on your most current Salary. I deem it a good one as it is based on your full current salary, whereas most others run on a sliding scale basis...but admittedly theirs runs the course of your employment...whereas ours at the moment runs for 10 yrs only.

Whether direct hire or through a second party (currently SERCO)....based on the current staff strength and what is projected for Hamad International (New Doha International Airport)...I will be surprised to see a 'surplus' scenario evolve. However, playing devils advocate .... if such a status quo were to emerge ... there are many other projects that are also up and running ... and will need attention ... Al Khor airport for a growing GA fraternity, our Training Department etc, etc. AS you put it, my 'gut' feeling, based on my time here and knowledge of current management .. well, unless you are the architect of your own demise, if you have kept your nose clean, as-it-were and suddenly find yourself in a 'surplus' scenario...my Director has proven over the years a willingness to assist employees as far as he possibly can.

Hope this addresses your two points - ciao.

LoserGill 17th Oct 2013 21:01

I gave it my best try for Doha but unfortunately I have been out of ATC for too long (as per Qatar's definition anyway..) so with that I exit the world of Control Towers.

Makes me sad but there is nothing that can be done.

Plazbot 18th Oct 2013 11:35

Any truth to the rumours of opening an area centre too?

Tower Ranger 18th Jun 2014 14:13

Rumour mill has it that Doha's improved package will be announced by the end of the month, anyone got any more concrete info?

ferris 18th Jun 2014 23:03

They had better do something. What an absolute gong show right now....

Satellite Man 21st Jun 2014 15:36

Is it better than the package for Dubai or Abu Dhabi?

Is Doha airport busier than Dubai / Abu Dhabi?

Red Dragon 23rd Jun 2014 03:45


Is Doha airport busier than Dubai / Abu Dhabi?
Seriously? Given your posts on another thread I think you need to get out of your hole and do some research buddy before asking stupid questions.

:ugh:

Satellite Man 23rd Jun 2014 08:10

"Busier" does not depend exclusively on traffic, at least by my book. Maybe you have had different experiences, but reality often differs from what is said on the Internet.

dazed&glazed 19th Jul 2014 09:21

Hey peeps,


How is the new airport going? Anything better/more difficult?

Heard rumours there mybe a new wage and new working hours...any developments?

CuitoCuanavale 2nd Aug 2014 21:17

Ref new package. No particulars. Will happen. Date of implementation unknown. Based on pending signatures, should be this year ... hopefully.

Ref which airport is busier. Hard to really compare. Doha has 3 sectors open at peak times. Vertically sectorized. TMA (Radar) / Approach Radar / Director. We do our own sequencing and holding, with a possible 4 stacks running simultaneously. Serving 4 Runways, with SOIR at Hamad International. Transit traffic is also given a service.

As to the Acc sector - again, nothing tangible as of yet.

west atc 5th Aug 2014 15:40

Dubai - consistently busier but can unload their s*it on the the UAE ACC
Abu Dhabi - getting busier and learning to unload their s*it onto the UAE ACC
Doha - getting busier, only has limited ways to unload their s*it on the UAE ACC

All units in the Middle East are getting busier and all have their moments, I just feel sorry for the Doha guys dealing with so many f***ing Qatar pilots!

mhk77 6th Aug 2014 03:33

[QUOTE]Then leave if it's that bad?! Or are you somehow 'stuck' there?! đŸ˜µđŸ˜‰ [QUOTE]

Are you trying to say, 360, that if you were unhappy in a job then you are presently in a financial position whereby you could just quit without another job to go to?

If you are in that position, I hope you are very grateful because you are in an overwhelming minority of people who are fortunate enough to be in that position.

Meanwhile, back in the real world- you know, that place with mortgages to pay, families to support, bills to pay etc- the rest of us need to maintain employment in order to ensure that money comes in with which to pay for those things.

It gets right on my t!ts when people can't come up with anything more constructive or sensible than, 'If you don't like it, leave'.

throw a dyce 6th Aug 2014 07:36

West ATC,
Just an observation about Dubai,Abu Dhabi,Doha and how busy they are.
I know for a fact that Dubai and Doha don't hire over 50s.I heard that Abu Dhabi is perhaps doing the same now.
I know that Doha don't like certain Nationalities.
So I have no sympathy at all for those places that have ageist and racist policies,then complain that they don't have enough staff.:hmm:

west atc 6th Aug 2014 08:38


So I have no sympathy at all for those places that have ageist and racist policies,then complain that they don't have enough staff.
I can't speak for all the units, they all have their own polices but I do know age is not a factor at the UAE ACC, there are also quite a few different nationalities working there.

Unfortunately though race is an issue in this part of the world but you will find the people who are complaining about not having enough staff are the controllers on the floor, not the people who are actually doing the hiring.
It might also not be racism that is a factor in all cases, some nationalities don't have ICAO licenses which are required here and also controllers from some countries don't have the experience with traffic levels that is required.


It gets right on my t!ts when people can't come up with anything more constructive or sensible than, 'If you don't like it, leave'.
Hear hear, but it easy to throw mud from the sidelines.

360BakTrak 7th Aug 2014 15:23

[quote=mhk77;8595651][QUOTE]Then leave if it's that bad?! Or are you somehow 'stuck' there?! 😵😉


Are you trying to say, 360, that if you were unhappy in a job then you are presently in a financial position whereby you could just quit without another job to go to?

If you are in that position, I hope you are very grateful because you are in an overwhelming minority of people who are fortunate enough to be in that position.

Meanwhile, back in the real world- you know, that place with mortgages to pay, families to support, bills to pay etc- the rest of us need to maintain employment in order to ensure that money comes in with which to pay for those things.

It gets right on my t!ts when people can't come up with anything more constructive or sensible than, 'If you don't like it, leave'.
I say that as in many cases people just see the đź’°đź’°đź’°đź’°đź’° and fail to research what life is like in the Middle East then just bitch & moan on arrival!


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